by Nancy Calabrese | May 26, 2023 | Podcast
About Merit Kahn: Merit Kahn, CEO of SELLect Sales Development, author of Myth Shift: Challenging the Truths That Sabotage Success, co-host of The Smarter Sales Show podcast. Merit is a certified emotional intelligence coach and certified speaking professional with over 25 years of experience. Throughout her career, Merit has worked with a variety of individuals, including salespeople, entrepreneurs, and professionals, as well as sales teams. She helps them shift their approach from selling to being chosen by their ideal clients. In her spare time, she is a stand-up comedian counting down the days until she trades in her title “single parent” for “empty nester.” Check out the latest episode of our Conversational Selling podcast to learn more about Merit.
In this episode, Nancy and Merit discuss the following:
- Sandler Training in Merit’s life.
- You need to be selective about the clients that you bring in.
- Have you ever felt like you were pushing against the tide when what you really want is to be open to receiving more business success?
- Nobody believes they’re close-minded, right?
- What prompted Merit to writing Myth Shift?
- Is the strategy of having an open mind to absorb new information and then pivot when necessary correct?
- Why do so many of us sabotage success?
- Interesting story about Emotional Intelligence.
- Fun fact about Merit.
- How can my people reach you?
Key Takeaways:
- Our core philosophy really is that selling is not about being pushy or aggressive, it’s about being selected.
- The truth is we must dramatically open the client’s hand to illustrate the point that we have to open someone’s mind so that they can receive our value.
- My first role is to open their mind to new possibilities because, and one of the best questions for that is, have you already decided it can’t get any better or are you open to a new possibility?
- Really the total intention of my keynotes, my programs, my coaching, my consulting work, the whole essence is around open minds and closed deals.
- As I got more and more experience in the world, I realized that at face value, those lessons didn’t really serve me the way that they were written.
- Instead of just changing my mind willy-nilly or flip-flopping, which also has a negative connotation in the marketplace, I would consider that new information and then I made a new decision.
- I think when people sabotage their own success, they’re certainly not doing it consciously.
- And what I learned was that there was this foundation of emotions, how well we understand our emotions and the impact we have on other people that was very different with these two.
- You and I know that the most important thing you could do with a question that a prospect asks you is fine out why they asked you that.
- The most scientifically validated assessment tool on the market, I use a system through assessment through MHS, which is multi-health systems, and they’re fantastic.
- I can open your mind to new possibilities in ways that I’m not even able to do with you know, expertise and credibility and training and coaching, but I can do it with laughter.
“Our core philosophy really is that selling is not about being pushy or aggressive, it’s about being selected. So we really teach people to stop selling and start getting selected. And how you do that is really by Asking good questions, having good conversations, as you well know, it’s not about what you say, it’s about the questions that you ask. And those questions help your prospects understand that you are credible and confident, and you can solve their problems. And that’s when they select you. And the second piece of it really is you want to be selected by them, but you also want to make sure that you’re selecting every single one of your ideal clients because you’re going to put a lot of effort and energy. ” – Merit
“And the way that I distinguish marketing and sales is marketing is everything that happens before you’re in a conversation. Once you’re in a conversation, you’re in the sales part of the process. And what you don’t wanna do is send somebody ” – Merit
“What I took from that when I read that study was, we all want to be perceived as open-minded. So how can we use that to our advantage? Not in a manipulative sale, you know, pushy way, but to recognize that I need to appeal to your bill, your desire to appear open-minded and once I remind you of that desire then you are inclined to agree with that. And now you’re more likely to hear my value. And whether we select to work with each other or not, from there is a different story, but I promise you, you will not sell or close a deal to a closed mind.” – Merit
Connect with Merit Kahn, CSP:
Try Our Proven, 3-Step System, Guaranteeing Accountability and Transparency that Drives RESULTS by clicking on this link: https://oneofakindsales.com/call-center-in-a-box/
Connect with Nancy Calabrese:
Voiceover: You’re listening to The Conversational Selling Podcast with Nancy Calabrese.
Nancy Calabrese: Hi everyone, it’s Nancy Calabrese and it’s time again for Conversational Selling, the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today and it always starts with the human conversation. Today we’re speaking with Merit Kahn, the CEO of Sellect, sales development, author of Myth Shift, Challenging the Truths that Sabotage Success, and co-host of the Smarter Sales Show podcast. Merritt is a certified emotional intelligence coach and certified speaking professional with over 25 years of experience. And throughout her career, Merit has worked with a variety of individuals, including CEOs, salespeople, entrepreneurs, as well as sales teams. And she helps them shift their approach from selling to being chosen by their ideal clients. So, look, if you’re looking for some practical tips and inspiring insights on leadership and business growth, this is gonna be a great show to listen to. Welcome to the show, Merit. [1:22]
Merit Kahn: Thank you, Nancy. I appreciate the invitation to be here.
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, I’m so excited. So, on a side note, everyone, I just found out that Merit is Sandler trained like I am. So, this is really going to be a fun memory lane for you, Merit.
Merit Kahn: Yep. I was a Sandler trainer and coach for about a dozen years. So, it’s a part of how I work.
Nancy Calabrese: Well, we definitely talk the same language. And let’s start with a comment that you say or made. So, helping clients shift their approach from selling to being chosen by their ideal clients. How does that happen? [2:06]
Merit Kahn: Well, a little backstory, that’s actually why we call a company Select Sales. We spell it S-E-L-L-E-C-T, not because we don’t know how to spell the word select, but because our core philosophy really is that selling is not about being pushy or aggressive, it’s about being selected. So we really teach people to stop selling and start getting selected. And how you do that is really by Asking good questions, having good conversations, as you well know, it’s not about what you say, it’s about the questions that you ask. And those questions help your prospects understand that you are credible and confident, and you can solve their problems. And that’s when they select you.
Nancy Calabrese: Yep. It’s funny. This is this just happened yesterday in our Sandler class. It was topic was scarcity and sales. One of the questions the coach asked was how many of you in this class want to write every account that gets in front of you. And most of the people raised their hands. I didn’t because I think you need to be selective about. the clients that you bring in. Do you agree with that? [3:24]
Merit Kahn: 100%. And that’s the second piece of it really is you of course want to be selected by them, but you also want to make sure that you’re selecting every single one of your ideal clients because you’re going to put a lot of effort and energy. My clients are generally in businesses where they sell something complex, creative or custom. So, that’s not a click here, buy now kind of an offer. their effort, their time, their expertise. And if you’re working with somebody who’s really not a good fit in terms of who you’re best suited to work with or the solutions that you provide in the marketplace, it’s ultimately not gonna be your best work. And that doesn’t lead to the referrals and introductions that you want to grow your business more easily in the future.
Nancy Calabrese: Sure. Yeah, in that case, nobody’s happy.
Merit Kahn: Exactly. [4:25]
Nancy Calabrese: The team isn’t happy, the client isn’t happy, and it’s just, and we all make those mistakes from time to time. As much as I try to pick the right clients, we slip on banana peels sometimes.
Merit Kahn: Well, and let’s be honest in the real world, sometimes you’re going to take some clients on because the business requires it, right? Like it’s a sales, it’s about the bottom line. There’s, there’s money involved. You have to be thinking about your revenue goals. And, and sometimes, sometimes we do that. Sometimes it’s required and the way that you would get around that is, okay, this may not be my ideal prospect, but how can I set expectations so that we’re working together in appropriate ways and in ways that best suit each other. So sometimes, you know, there’s other aspects of selecting the ways that you work with people. [5:25]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, so you asked the question, I think it’s on your website, have you ever felt like you were pushing against the tide when what you really want is to be open to receiving more business success? I mean, how do we do that?
Merit Kahn: Well, I would say so many of my clients over the years just have complained and they’ve been frustrated by, at some point or another, they feel like they’re talking to a brick wall, right? They’re just, they know they have solutions that solve problems, and they can’t seem to get into the conversation. So, it’s, you know, a lot of times people will say to me, Merit, I’m great once I’m face to face with somebody, it’s just getting those conversations. And they look at that as solely a marketing challenge. And of course, it is partly a marketing challenge. And the way that I distinguish marketing and sales is marketing is everything that happens before you’re in a conversation. Once you’re in a conversation, you’re in the sales part of the process. And what you don’t wanna do is send somebody backwards to marketing like, hey, did you see our website? Like… Don’t do that. You’re in a conversation. [6:38]
Nancy Calabrese: Right.
Merit Kahn: Have the conversation. Um, what I was finding was people were not, um, well trained in how do you open the minds of somebody to receive your value? So as an example, I’ll paint the picture for you. When I do a, uh, a keynote at a large conference or sales kickoff or company retreat, one of the very first things I do in my, in the opening of the program. is I have a volunteer on stage, and we do this whole song and dance about, you know, whether or not they’ve ever been in a fist fight and I have them make a fist. Well, that fist represents your prospect’s closed mind. And then I say, I say, Hey, Nancy, have you brought, did you bring your wallet? [7:20] And then
Nancy Calabrese: You’re right.
Merit Kahn: We have a little chuckle about money and things, but ultimately somehow we get a, a high denomination bill and I take that bill and I say, Okay, this hundred dollar bill represents all the value you have to give. This is your great customer service, your years of credibility, all the things. Right. But if I try to jam that dollar bill into that closed fist, what happens? Nothing.
Nancy Calabrese: Nothing. [7:49]
Merit Kahn: And we do that all day long. We’re trying to, to cram our good value, all of our features and our benefits, you know, back in the old days, we tried to do that, but like all this stuff, all the good stuff into someone’s closed mind. And the truth is we have to dramatically open their hand to, you know, to illustrate the point that we have to open someone’s mind so that they can receive our value. And, and it’s very simple, honestly, it could be as simple as four words, which are, are you open to? It could, you know, there are other ways that I work with clients, um, to help them get in the head space where they have to remind themselves, I’ve got to open my mind to new possibilities. And then my first role is to open their mind to new possibilities because, and one of the best questions for that is, have you already decided it can’t get any better or are you open to a new possibility? [8:48]
Nancy Calabrese: Wow.
Merit Kahn: And. When you ask somebody that question, they literally have to stop in their tracks and go, Oh yeah, I guess I’m open to something new. Cause nobody wants to say they’re closed minded. So yeah.
Nancy Calabrese: Right. Interesting. Nobody believes they’re close-minded, right?
Merit Kahn: Right. Yeah. Well, actually there was a study done by Pepperdine University a number of years ago, and they asked people, are you open-minded? And, you know, everybody says yes. And then they asked, do you consider yourself more open-minded than the average person? And 95% of people in that survey self-reported, yes, I am more open-minded than the average person. I don’t know where you went to school, Nancy, but that math does not work, not even new math. So… Um, you know, but what I took from that when I read that study was we all want to be perceived as open-minded. So how can we use that to our advantage? Not in a manipulative sale, you know, pushy way, but to recognize that I need to appeal to your bill, your desire to appear open-minded and once I remind you of that desire. then you are inclined to agree with that. And now you’re more likely to hear my value. And whether or not we select to work with each other from there is a different story, but I promise you, you will not sell or close a deal to a closed mind. [10:25] And that’s why
Nancy Calabrese: Huh
Merit Kahn: really the total intention of my keynotes, my programs, my coaching, my consulting work, The whole essence is around open minds, closed deals.
Nancy Calabrese: Wow, let’s talk about your book, Myth Shift. I mean, what prompted you to write it?
Merit Kahn: I wrote that back in 2016 and, you know, I, I just was frustrated myself because there were so many things that I remember being told when I was starting my business and starting my career. And, and as I got more and more experience in the world, I realized that at face value, those lessons didn’t really serve me the way that they were written. And so I looked at the things that I was taught are the truisms in business. And I looked at them from different angles and decided that there was a slight shift that was necessary. So for example, one of the things that, and you know this, cause you work with leaders as well, leaders wanna be strong decision makers, right? It’s powerful and it’s good to make quick decisions. you know, decisions that we stick to. And once we stick to it, we’re just going to stick to it no matter what, right? Because we’re go-getters and we’re going to power through. Well, I don’t know about you, but that was terrible advice for me. You know, sometimes it worked, but it wasn’t foolproof. And what I discovered was, you know, I call it the stick to it myth. And that is where you’re, you stick to it no matter what. But what I realized was that sometimes new information came into my experience. that would have rendered the decision that I made useless. [12:12] And
Nancy Calabrese: Right.
Merit Kahn: So, I looked at that from different angles and I thought, you know, instead of just changing my mind willy-nilly or flip-flopping, which also has a negative connotation in the marketplace, I would consider that new information and then I made a new decision. So, I don’t know if I came up with this term or if I heard it and was swirling around in my subconscious. But
Nancy Calabrese: Great.
Merit Kahn: I learned to re-decide. And I love giving leaders that distinction because it gives them the language to change the course of direction without feeling like they’re not a good decisive leader. And so, yeah, and so the mechanics of selling, when I teach somebody what to actually say, I would say in that situation, look, based on the information that we had available to us at the time that I made this decision, this was exactly the right move. Since then, I’ve been made aware of new information and because of that, I’ve made a new decision. I’ve re-decided our game plan, our position, our goal, our objective, whatever, and this is the direction we’re taking. And if you’re somebody on that team, when they deliver that change, of course, and they change of direction, in that way, that still occurs to you as powerful. And so that’s an example of shifting the myth. [13:41]
Nancy Calabrese: Well, talk about being open-minded, right? That ties right back into what we just spoke about, having an open mind to absorb new information and then pivot when necessary, right?
Merit Kahn: Exactly. Yes.
Nancy Calabrese: So why do so many of us sabotage success?
Merit Kahn: I think when people sabotage their own success, they’re certainly not doing it consciously. I think most of that comes from the foundation that we layer all of our skills on top of. This was one of the things that I had to look outside of my Sandler training to find just something else because what happened to me was as a trainer, I had two guys in my class, Steven and Daniel, and they both were hired by the same company. at the same time, they sold in the same territory, the same products and services at the same price point. Like literally, I even thought these guys looked alike. Okay, like everything was the same. And then they sat in my class and they learned the same material from the same trainer at the same time. Except Steven would come back week after week after week, like, oh my gosh, Merritt, you won’t believe this. I had this other success story. you know, blah, blah, blah. And then Daniel was sitting there and listening to his colleague and getting more and more frustrated every week because he was not having the same success. [15:04]
Nancy Calabrese: Right.
Merit Kahn: And so that was a real, uh, that was a difficult moment for me as a coach and trainer, because, you know, I, I really believed in my process. I still believe in that methodology. I, I really love what I did. I really wanted to make a difference for people, but I couldn’t take credit for Stephen’s success if I also didn’t take responsibility for the fact that Daniel didn’t do much with it, that forced me to look. What else is there? What’s the difference between these two guys? That’s when I got certified in emotional intelligence. And what I learned was that there was this foundation of emotions, how well we understand our emotions and the impact we have on other people that was very different with these two. Daniel did not have any impulse control. So, I went and I taught him all the wonderful questioning techniques that we teach. And instead of using those in the real world, as soon as a prospect asked Daniel a question, he just blurted out the answer. Well, you and I know that the most important thing you could do with a question that a prospect asks you is fine out why they asked you that. [16:18]
Nancy Calabrese: Right. Yep.
Merit Kahn: So, you’ve got to have enough impulse control to wait on your answer to ask another question. And what I learned when I did an emotional intelligence, the most scientifically validated assessment tool on the market, I use a system through, assessment through MHS, which is multi-health systems, and they’re fantastic. And once I learned and saw on paper Daniel’s impulse control, and some of the other things that there’s 15 attributes we assess for, that’s when I could see the very clear difference between Stephen and Daniel. And what that allowed me to do as a coach was tailor my coaching so that I could work with Daniel on, in Sandler’s terms, it would be upfront contracts. [17:11] I talk about that now in my business as setting expectations, but I could teach him things to say in that. early part of a sales conversation so that he was giving himself permission to ask questions. I gave him strategies to interrupt himself when he found himself blurting out an answer too soon. And so that really helped him. And sure enough, then he started to see some of the same success that Stephen had. But that was when I learned that it wasn’t just about the mechanics of selling. It wasn’t just about what I was teaching people to say. It was about their mindset. and how they think and yeah, so.
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, you know, sales is fascinating to me and everybody’s different. You really have to understand their communication style, you know, what motivates them. And that’s an interesting story. Are you in touch with these gentlemen at all? [18:10]
Merit Kahn: I kept in touch with Stephen for a number of years after our business relationship was over. I’m sure we’re still LinkedIn friends. But now that you mentioned it, no one’s asked me that for a while, so maybe I’ll reach back out and see how they’re doing today.
Nancy Calabrese: Stephen, look out for your friend here. She’s going to be touching base with you.
Merit Kahn: Yeah, exactly.
Nancy Calabrese: You know what? We’re almost up with time, but you were such a fun lady. Share a fun fact about you. [18:42]
Merit Kahn: Fun fact about me is in my spare time, my spare 17 minutes every week, I love to perform standup comedy and I wrote a one woman inspiring comedy show that I performed a few times in Denver, where I live. I perform it regularly in Denver and I love it and I’m going to be taking that show on tour. So. Uh, you know, my list and let me, and then be alerted for where the comedy shows are coming, but, uh, that’s, that’s really one of my, my, the loves of my life, it’s a, it’s a passion of mine because I also learned that as a person who wants to help people see more possibilities for themselves, um, you know, my two entry points are business. Um, but also, but also laughter. And so if I can laugh, I can open you. I can open your mind to new possibilities in ways that I’m not even able to do with you know, expertise and credibility and training and coaching, but I can do it with laughter. [19:47]
Nancy Calabrese: That’s an excellent combination. You have to have fun. Laughter is so important, especially in sales. So I’m here smiling away. I don’t know about
Merit Kahn: Okay.
Nancy Calabrese: You folks out there, but you bring a smile to my face. So how can my people find you?
Merit Kahn: The hub of all things is my website. So it’s meritcon.com, M-E-R-I-T, just like a certificate. Con is K-A-H-N, so not like Genghis, but the other way.
Nancy Calabrese: Hahaha
Merit Kahn: And yeah, just go there. There’s a let’s talk button on that page. And I would say if I’ve inspired you, if you’re curious about your emotional intelligence or you’re planning a conference and you really need a dynamic speaker who’s gonna match the caliber of your audience, love to talk and so just book some time on my calendar. [20:35]
Nancy Calabrese: Awesome. I wanna thank you, Merit. I know this is the first time we’ve spoken. Hopefully it’ll be the beginning of a long-term business relationship and you’ll come back on the show.
Merit Kahn: I would love that. Thank you, Nancy.
Nancy Calabrese: Well, you’re very welcome. And for everyone out there, press that Let’s Talk button. Get her on the phone. She’s fabulous. And she will make you laugh. So, happy sales for everyone out there. And we’ll see you next time. [21:05]
by Nancy Calabrese | May 31, 2021 | Podcast
Our guest on this week’s episode is author, speaker, and CEO John Asher. His company, Asher Strategies, offers sales advisory services to clients all over the world. Working with Vistage, an international network of CEOs, John has presented best practices in sales, sales management, and marketing. And his team has trained over 80,000 executives, salespeople, and managers in almost two dozen countries over the past 19 years. The author of Close Deals Faster and The Neuroscience of Selling is here to talk with us about all things sales.
Solution selling is dead. The idea of building rapport, conducting a needs analysis of the buyer, and then offering a solution that fits no longer works in today’s business world. While the average salesperson is a passive listener and good salespeople are active listeners, elite sellers are the ones who now practice perfect listening. No one stays at the top without training, especially with so much new information emerging in the field of sales. John breaks down the techniques that have replaced solution selling, including:
- How to become a perfect listener
- The five factors for sales success
- Identifying the right time to close a deal
- And much, much more
John is truly a wealth of experience and information. He has helped so many salespeople get to the top of their game in the ever-changing landscape of modern sales. His approaches are backed by science and proven in the field. Become a more successful seller by becoming a perfect listener and listen now!
Mentioned in this episode:
Transcript
Voiceover: You’re listening to the Conversational Selling Podcast with Nancy Calabrese.
Nancy Calabrese: Hello, it’s Nancy Calabrese. And it is time for Conversational Selling, the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today, and it always starts with the human conversation. Speaking with us today is John Asher CEO and master facilitator of Asher Strategies, which offers sales advisory services. John is an experienced international speaker on sales, sales management and marketing for Vistage a worldwide network of CEOs. He co-founded an engineering firm in 1986. He and his team grew the company at a compounded growth rate of 42% per year for 14 straight years.
During his tenure as CEO, the company acquired seven other engineering and software development companies. His team’s sold the company in 1997. After growing, I believe the I’m looking at this number right growing annual revenue to 165 million. In 1998, he co-founded a sales advisory services practice that has grown into a global leader in sales strategies. And these strategies include sales, sales management and marketing. His team has trained over 80,000 executives, sales people, and other customer facing managers in 22 countries over 19 years. The only word that comes to my mind right now is wow! I’m not even sure where to begin. But to say wow, again, welcome to the show, John.
John Asher: Great to be on Nancy. Thanks so much for inviting me.
Nancy: Oh, my goodness. So I I’ve been looking so looking forward to this conversation. And, you know, one in learning more about you over, you know, over time, I love the name, or I don’t know if it’s a tagline or your company name close deals faster. I mean, that’s every sales person’s dream, right? That’s every CEOs vision. Tell us more? I mean, how do you close deals faster?
John: So it was a little interesting history about that as it was my my second sales book. First of all, I actually wrote I quote, it was co authored by me and my GM in China and in Mandarin. And, and the title of the book was How to do Business with the West. Advice for Chinese Salespeople. And I wrote the second book in the US, it was called the Top 10 skills of the Elite Salespeople. And Ingram, the publisher, went out to his 40 salespeople and had a brainstorming and said he liked the title or is there a better title? And they came back and said, You need to call this book Close Deals Faster. So it wasn’t my idea, actually, it was the publisher’s idea to change it from my preferred title to their’s. So of course, we go over their’s.
Nancy: Well, it is catchy for sure. What’s the trick or any tips? You know, I’m sure we could go on for hours and hours. But anything jumped to mind that you really believe a salesperson should focus on first?
John: Well, if you if you just pick one of the 10 skills, one of the most important almost every salesperson knows this is to be a great listener. Great salespeople are not great talkers. They’re great listeners. And there’s always been two types of salespeople. And if you go back to the harbor data, there’s about 25 million salespeople in the us right now. And there’s two 80/20 rules that are associated with them based on harbor data. The first is 5%, are elite, five land and 20% are not very good. And their turnover rates about a third per year. The second 80/20 rule is those top 20% the elite are again, 80 percent of the new business. Right? Let’s compare the listening skills of the elite salespeople and the average. The average are typically passive listeners meaning, listen, just enough to start interrupting and talking about what you can do. Active listeners have always been keep asking questions. Keep trying to figure out what the buyer needs totally before you respond. Right. Always. And that that’s that’s a key skill.
Now with all these neuroscience studies Nancy, active listening has been picked up to a whole new level. Yeah, perfect listening. Yeah. And if you’re a perfect listener, and you do those three techniques, as the end of a discovery process, the buyer will say something like this, wow, you have a perfect understanding of our needs. You’ve actually helped me understand what we need. This has been such a great collaboration. Thank you so much. So to the end of the story about listening, the elite salespeople now use three techniques to be the perfect listener. Accurate listening is one. Second, ask permission to take notes and take notes. And third, summarize it back to the buyer as many times as it takes the buyer to say you got it. I guess it’s actual statistics that backs it up. 90% of the sales people get it that you really ought to take notes, only 10%. And only 2% summarize the feedback. That’s probably the most important skill.
Nancy: You know, they seem pretty simple. And listening to it. Why? Why are most salespeople challenged with doing that?
John: As my wife says, frequently, you can’t fix stupid.
Nancy: I like to think that not, you know, most of us aren’t stupid, but there seems to be a hesitancy or just lack of interest.
John: Just a lack lack of training, in my view, in my experience, once you start doing it, using the three techniques ask permission to take notes, take notes, summarize and feed it back. And don’t do that until you thoroughly understand what the buyer needs. And then you watch your closing rates go sky high, when you start using the technique, it’s just like a no brainer.
Nancy: I’ve also read that I really loved what I’ve written when I read this, no one stays at the top without training. Isn’t that true? Tell me where that came from and give share your thoughts on why it’s so important to keep polishing your skills.
John: Well, what is that they say sales training. That’s what we’re talking about. There’s so much new information coming out. I give you one example. So there’s a worldwide forum of neuroscientists in 70 country, countries sharing their expertise, sharing their research. Sharing our experiments. And many of the now we’re done with what are called functional MRI machines. So imagine a buyer sitting in a chair with a helmet on and there’s an MRI machine built in. You show the buyer a picture, you ask the buyer a question, you show the buyer or short video, you make a statement to the buyer. And then you can see when the oxytocin circuit lights, up the dopamine circuit, the serotonin circuit. When nothing happens. When more than one light at the same time. So now we have real science behind sales. So sales people haven’t caught up with that and had this new neuroscience based sales training. They’re behind the competition. You got to keep trying new stuff happens all the time.
Nancy: Oh, yeah. Interesting. You also have a segment I found online about the five factors for success in sales, can you share what those are?
John: It’s really simple. So if you if you go back to the elite salespeople, all five of the following factors are in alignment. One, great product knowledge. Gives them power and confidence. They can really add value to prospects and suspects. Two, they have a natural talent for sales. You can’t you can’t change your talent, right? The leopard doesn’t change his spots. So back to good to great get the right people on the right seat on the bus based on natural talent. Though product knowledge must be learned natural talent or sales aptitude is we’re born with what we got. The third is selling skills, which must be learned. The fourth is motivation. Fairly, fairly complex aspect, there are three parts to it.
One is people’s natural motivation. Two is the environment they’re selling in. So during COVID when sales went down by 90% for some companies, what happened the motivation of their salespeople right? In the tank. Yep, to the third part of motivation is who’s the sales manager. And if you go look at these various Gallup studies, one of them was 800,000 managers in three million people. One of the results was people will stay with a great manager in a bad company. They will not stay with a bad manager in a great company. So the third, the third, the fourth aspect, motivation has three components. And then the fifth is the processes and technology and tools that the company provides for the salespeople. So product knowledge, natural talent, selling skills, motivation, process, technology and tools. When you see all five of those in alignment, now we’re talking about the elite sales people.
Nancy: Yeah. So you think elite sales people are natural, naturally born, they have it within them.
John: Elite sales people are naturally born and made. In other words, all five factors are in alignment. When you go back to the five factors and ask what’s your most important? What’s the most important one and blah, blah, blah. So if you integrate, if you have a big meta analysis, a summary of a bunch of studies from sales, and HR Institutes, aptitude accounts for 50% of results, and the other 50% is the other four factors. So aptitude ain’t everything, but it is pretty significant. For the best sales people are born and made. Yeah, born meaning they got the natural talent and made means they’ve got the skills, they got the product knowledge, and they got the tools and know how to use them.
Nancy: Yeah, you know, I want to go to the question I asked you to think about which is sharing your unique idea that is different and sets you apart? What is that?
John: Well, it’s actually not my idea. But there was a article in the Harvard Business Review must be three years ago. And the title of the article was, of course, provocative to get people to read it. And the name of the article was Solution Selling is Dead. Pretty provocative, right? And solution selling has been around probably for 15 years. Sometimes it’s called consultative selling. And the big breakthrough happened when, instead of salespeople just starting with presentations, the whole idea of their idea was to be a solution seller or consultant, meaning that three step process, build rapport, make the buyer comfortable with you, doing these analysis discovery process, find out what the buyer needs, and three offer a solution as the term solution selling opera solution.
I agree, and everybody kind of knows that. Pretty much now. Not all of the not so good salespeople, but the elite salespeople certainly know that. So here’s a little bit of a background behind the article. I mentioned these neuroscience studies, essentially worldwide now. And there’s huge collaboration of them in 70 countries. So the the, the knowledge increases exponential. We now know from these functional MRI studies, that by the way, it the science behind sales now tells us what techniques we’ve been using that are correct. Tells us how to improve some of those techniques, and also tells us some of the techniques that we’ve been using are exactly the wrong thing to do. That’s why I’m an engineer engineers. That’s why I really love the science behind the sales. So that has been the art of the sale the sales process now we have the art, the process and the science. And yeah, here’s, here’s one of the results of the science.
There are six activators that will wake up the buyers decision making brain. So we all have three parts of the brain a rational part, facts, figures, complex thinking, our conscious brain. And we have two parts of the unconscious or old brain one’s instinct to the reptilian brain and the other is emotional brain. And we now know that I’m sure you’ve heard the term we buy on emotion and justify with logic. Yep, so there’s six ways to wake up the buyer’s old brain. So they’ll they will like you and they want to do business with you. And you’ve really alerted them that something important is coming. And one of those six is called me, me, me focus. In other words, we’re all focused on ourselves. So when you go back, millions and millions of year, no, no species survive through evolution without being focused on their own safety. So it’s true for all of us. We’re all focused on our own safety, our own success, our own happiness, her own family.
Just everybody kind of knows that. Well, when you put that in a buyer selling context, when salespeople are all focused on themselves and what they’re selling, it ain’t waking up to buyer’s old decision making brain. But the salesperson can, can make it focused on the buyer, then the whole thing will shift. So a good example would be a presentation. So if when you are going to meet with a new buyer, and instead of the solution, sell it and build rapport, do a needs analysis. So build rapport, of course, but then instead of at least starting with a needs analysis, and you’re kind of 15 questions that you know, you need to ask to get to the bottom of everything. In many cases, now, buyers savvy buyers, know there’s so much information about their company about them about their competition on the internet.
They get impatient with the 15 questions of their discovery analysis. They’re saying to themselves, why does this salesperson know more about us and our competition and where we stand. So now let’s go back to the harbor sales department forty four years, the Harvard neuroscience laboratory 10 years, as you can imagine, they talk to each other now. So if you are the salesperson, and you will use to get ready to start the needs analysis, you say something like this, here is our understanding of your needs, bullet, bullet, bullet. Whatever they are. Do I had this about right? Then, based on the neuroscience studies at Harvard, you don’t have to have it exactly right. If you had a pretty well nailed, in 95% of the cases, it causes a big conversation between the buyer and the seller.
And then after that conversation is over, maybe you have three or four questions left to ask, you have to ask all 15 questions now. Maybe only a few more. And if you had a slide deck of 23 slides to show how many slides you have to show now. Maybe three or four. And it won’t be a random three or four, either. There’ll be just the three or four that relate to how the conversation is going. So that’s what I mean by solution selling is dead. As I said I wouldn’t sell brands and I made it up. It’s actually another Business Review article. And that’s, that’s what they mean.
Nancy: What they mean it’s all about them. Them them them.
John: Correct. Make it all about them, them, them.
Nancy: Yeah. Lose the me, me, me and focus on them. What is something and I think we kind of touched on this, but what is something you would want us wants to spotlight? Besides your good looks?
John: That is debatable. That’s for sure.
Nancy: Well, they can’t see us unfortunately.
John: Yeah. Yay. Like, ah, yeah. Well, the probably the second most important skill after listening would be closing. Now is knowing when is the right time to close knowing how to interpret the vocal from the buyer and knowing how to interpret the buyer’s body language. And knowing that you have to you can’t try to close before the buyer’s ready because it’s a total turnoff. And once the buyer is ready, if you don’t try to close the buyer, wondering what’s going on. It doesn’t take too long before you lose the opportunity. And buyers and buyers don’t want untrained salespeople who since they’re like to to sure when the buyer’s ready, will kind of beat around the bush and hope the buyer will close themselves. As you know, hope is not a good, good strategy.
Nancy: Hopeism. Haven’t you heard that term?
John: I have. And so the buyer wants to definitive closing approach something like this. Would you like to get this project started on the 5th of May? Any ambiguity there? There’s no ambiguity, you just directly ask him for the for the deal. And there’s nine other ways to close and I’m sure you’ve heard the alternative close and the assumptive close. You know and on and on. So the great salespeople have those 10 closing approaches in their back pocket or up their sleeve. And they recognize when the buyer is ready and how to get them and what they need to do to get them ready. That’s probably number two skill and importance after listening. Yeah, and frankly, if you don’t do great listening, you’ll never get anywhere near close.
Nancy: I totally, totally agree. And I can’t believe we’re at the end of our show. I want to be sure to get one or two other comments out here. What is one takeaway you want to leave the audience with?
John: If you want to get to the top of the game as a salesperson, be the perfect listener. That has to be a total active listener, don’t start talking or enter. The worst is interrupting. Don’t start talking about what you can do, until you thoroughly understand what they can do. Ask permission to take notes and take notes. And when you think you got it all summarize and feed it back.
Nancy: Yep. Great, great advice. Great advice, John. How can my audience find you?
John: Well you can find me on LinkedIn, that’s easy. So John Asher. Just go to LinkedIn and everything you need to know and probably more than you want to know. That’s probably the best and easiest way to go. You know, there’s 760 million people on LinkedIn now.
Nancy: I love it.
John: So right, why not? Why give out phone numbers and email addresses anymore with LinkedIn?
Nancy: You don’t need a business card, that’s for sure. Yes to text and do everything electronically. Well, listen, I really want to thank you, John, for being on and to my audience. Thank you so much for listening in. Everyone have a fantastic sales day. And we remember, you want to be elite. John’s your man. Pick up the phone, give him a call. Hook up with him on LinkedIn. Thanks again, John.
John: Thank you, Nancy. Great to be with you and then we’ll get you on our podcast sometime in the near future.
Nancy: Well, I’m gonna have to study up for that one. I can’t wait.
Voiceover: The Conversational Selling Podcast is sponsored by One of a Kind Sales. If you’re frustrated that you don’t have enough leads or your sales team complains that they just don’t have enough time to prospect, we can help. To work with Nancy and her team one on one to help you manage your sales team, install her proven outbound sales process and create more bottom line results, email her now at Nancy@oneofakindsales.com. To learn more about Nancy and her outbound sales secrets, grab your free copy of her book, The Inside Sales Solution at oneofakindsales.com/book.
by Marta Malyk | May 11, 2021 | Advice, Cold Calling, Cold Calling Success, Cold Calling Tips, Lead Generation, Sales Prospecting, Sales Prospecting Success
They say that optimists see the glass as half full. I say that optimists see a full sales pipeline!
Let me explain.
Which would you rather spend time with – a person who is grumpy and glum or a positive, happy person? I would take the positive one every time! And when making cold calls, that positive attitude can be the difference between keeping a prospect on the phone until they set an appointment and having them hang up.
Now don’t get me wrong, hang ups happen, and sometimes, if they weren’t a good fit, that works in your favor – saving you time and effort. But if you want to keep people on the phone long enough to see if they ARE a good fit, a positive outlook is key.
Put on those ‘Rose Colored Glasses’.
Optimism is defined as “A tendency to expect the best possible outcome or dwell on the most hopeful aspects of a situation.”
In a business where so much of your day can be determined by the actions of others, it is great to know that this is something you can drive. What you ‘expect’ and what you ‘dwell on’ are both within YOUR control.
Control those and you gain more control over your results.
Data supports the claim.
Studies show that optimists outsell pessimists, in some cases by many times over! Here is an example of the results from a study done by Dr Martin Seligman, an expert in ‘positive psychology’, from just two industries:
Insurance
Optimistic sales agents outsell pessimists by 38 percent, and extremely optimistic sales agents outsell pessimists by 88 percent.
Real Estate
Optimistic sales agents outsell pessimists by 33 percent, and extremely optimistic sales agents outsell pessimists by a whopping 319 percent.
This doesn’t mean that you have to be unrealistically optimistic. You need to be able to acknowledge challenges and obstacles. I am suggesting that you confidently address them and move one. That you focus on the silver lining rather than the clouds. Don’t dwell on the hang-ups or the unanswered calls, rather, focus on the person you are going to speak with next. Be present and enjoy meeting them. Learn about their needs and see how you can help!
And yes, you can take this too far. Being blindly optimistic can be detrimental to your sales goals. Sitting at your desk, or worse yet, on a distant beach, imagining that prospects will start calling YOU probably won’t fill your pipeline.
But a good dose of optimism WILL boost your confidence, your outlook and your bottom line!
For more on this see our post Control What You Can in Sales and follow me on LinkedIn and Twitter for daily sales tips, advice and periodic boosts of optimism!
by Nancy Calabrese | May 10, 2021 | Podcast
On this week’s episode, our guest is “The LinkedIn Whisperer”, Brynne Tillman! Brynne is the CEO of Social Sales Link and for over a decade has been teaching entrepreneurs, sales teams, and business leaders how to leverage the awesome power of LinkedIn for social selling. She has adapted proven traditional sales techniques to the new, digital world in order to find and engage the right target market.
LinkedIn is the most powerful digital database for business. It offers users the ability to search and filter connections and leverage relationships in order to earn referrals and the permission to name-drop, like a virtual sales conference lobby social. Brynne’s insights into LinkedIn marketing helps companies and individuals maximize business opportunities on the site. Her tips include:
- How to convert your profile from a resume into a client resource
- Why it’s important to use a permission-based model
- How to engage with influencer articles to find new business
- The importance of offering free content to your network
- And so much more
Brynne’s company offers e-learning memberships, coaching, and a community of like-minded business people making the most of what LinkedIn has to offer, but you can get all of her most important LinkedIn lessons by listening in now!
Mentioned in this episode:
Transcript
Voiceover: You’re listening to the Conversational Selling Podcast with Nancy Calabrese.
Nancy Calabrese: Hi, it is Nancy Calabrese. And it’s time for Conversational Selling. The podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today and it always starts with the human conversation. Joining us today is Brynne Tillman, the LinkedIn Whisperer and CEO of Social Sales Link. For over a decade, she has been teaching entrepreneurs, sales teams and business leaders how to leverage LinkedIn for social selling.
As a former sales trainer, and personal producer, Brynne adopted all of the traditional sales techniques and adapted them to the new digital world. She guides professionals to establish a thought leader and subject matter expert brand, find and engage the right targeted market and leverage clients and networking partners for warm introductions into qualified buyers. In addition, Brynne is the author of the LinkedIn Sales Playbook, A Tactical Guide to Social Selling. So folks, I’m sure we can all agree that LinkedIn is all over the place today, and an excellent resource, especially for the b2b world. Brynne, I know you have an abundance of tips to share with us today. So welcome to the show.
Brynne Tillman: Oh, my gosh, Nancy, thank you so much for having me. I’m so honored.
Nancy: Oh, well, ditto, ditto. And, you know, as I, as I opened up, LinkedIn is all over the place. I believe in LinkedIn marketing as an important channel in the marketing process. I’ve gotten clients from it, as I’m sure many of my listeners have. But why is it so important in sales and marketing? Why is this channel really credit a critical component to a plan?
Brynne: There’s so many directions, I can go with that answer. But the first one and the most simple one is that’s where the business people are. Right? This is, this is the professional platform, that almost everyone in business, particularly in the US, but even globally, is at least at least has a presence. So that’s number one. Number two, not only is it the biggest, I believe the biggest professional database, but it is the the only self updated database, meaning there are things like Dun and Bradstreet lists and Zoom info.
But all of those are updated by either bots that are scanning the web or human beings, where LinkedIn is, hey, I moved my my company, I’m at a new company, I’m updating my profile. So I’ve been really, it’s as up to date as any info you can get anywhere. And the number one from a sales perspective, why I think LinkedIn is the most powerful tool in any tool chest, not just today is because we have the ability to search and filter our connections, connections and identify who they know that we want to meet and leverage our relationships to get right one referrals or permission to name drop. And I could go on with another 50. But I’ll start with those three.
Nancy: Wow. So you know, what really caught my attention in the opener was that you adapted traditional sales techniques to the digital world? What techniques Did you adapt in particular? And how did you know it was time to do it?
Brynne: Well, you know, I, I don’t I started doing this before it was time to do it. But I knew it was a better way a faster way to get to where I wanted to go. So I guess it’s sort of a two part question. So let’s, I’m going to back up for a second and answer. The first part is what what did I do to adapt? And the interesting thing in answering that question is, what I do is bring in what I would traditionally do, just do it on digital. So for example, I’m just going to throw one example out and again, there could be 50 of these but I come across this very engaged upon article by an influencer in the industry who’s attracting lots of my potential buyers. I just stumbled across it or I went and I purposely founded but either way, there’s a gold mine sitting here.
So I want you to think about this. This is a networking event that article, author is the keynote. And all these people that are commenting are, you know, in the audience or even in the lobby having a conversation before they even go into the audience. And they’re talking about the topic that that keynote has just posted, right? So in real life, if that were the case, you would walk into a circle of people talking at a networking event in or you know, prior to the, the, the main stage, and you would listen, first you wouldn’t kill, you wouldn’t butt your head into a circle of people say, hey, guys, I help companies just like yours. Right, right. That’s what this what people are doing on LinkedIn.
What we need to do is get into that circle, listen, ask questions like, what would you naturally do in that environment? And we need to do ask questions, provide additional insights, not about your stuff. But about the topic you’re engaging on. Maybe I own everyone’s engaging on Nancy’s content that is so fabulous. And I say, hey, I, you know, I’m now one on one with someone who commented on Nancy’s stuff. And I say, I don’t know if you heard her podcast two weeks ago with Meredith Powell was absolutely phenomenal. If you’re interested, let me know. I’ll send you a link. And I’m still having a conversation around the topic. I haven’t moved to me yet. Because in real life, you wouldn’t move to you until they say, so by the way, what do you do?
Nancy: Right.
Brynne: Right. And some of that is, hey, they visit your profile. And you notice they visit your profile. So now they know what you do. And you can say, Hey, I noticed you checked out my profile, and I was checking out yours. I’m not sure if you’re exploring this kind of content. But you are, I’d be happy to send you that information too. Right. But it’s a permission based. It’s not pitching your face. And so you know, when you ask the question, taking the traditional networking in sales online, the irony of that is I didn’t have to do too much adapting.
Nancy: Right. I love what you just said permission based, not pitching in your face.
Brynne: Yes.
Nancy: All right. Did you come up with that?
Brynne: Yes.
Nancy: That’s a good one. I may steal it from you.
Brynne: I’ve already coined it, but you’re welcome to use it.
Nancy: Okay. I’ll give you a shout out if I use it, okay?
Brynne: Three times and then it’s yours.
Nancy: Okay, thank you. So that answers the one part that when did you know it was the right time to kind of cut the cord and really just go into it.
Brynne: Well, I was actually a co owner of the sales training company. And we were using LinkedIn and watching 10 years ago, as a as a loss leader, or maybe a win leader, because we were charging, but we would then sell them into more traditional sales training. And it wasn’t aligning well with me, I really wanted to just do the LinkedIn stuff. And my partner at the time didn’t. So we gave each other a hug. She laughed at me. And she said, when this trend is over, you’re always welcome back. And that’s seven and a half years later. We’re still here. But I love it. And it really it just resonates with me. You know, I see the LinkedIn logo and I get happy. It’s just my world.
Nancy: Yeah, well, you’re passionate about it. You know, speaking of passion, I just listened to Simon Sinek talk about passion, which I found on LinkedIn. And so it all goes back to LinkedIn. You also, and I read that you suggest converting your LinkedIn profile from a resume to a resource to become a thought leader. Why is this so important?
Brynne: Well, so I mean, if you’re looking for a job, just hold your ears and scream real loud, because when I’m about to say is wrong. But if you’re looking, if you are in a business development role, you have to earn the right for someone to care about what you do. You even have to earn the right for someone to care about how you can help them. I can’t tell you how many clients start with me, I don’t understand why I can’t get a call. I bring so much value. But they don’t know that yet.
So no matter what you think you bring to the table. Yeah, they don’t even they have no interest in checking out your table. Right. So you have to earn the right for them to even want a conversation with you. And it can start with the profile. Right? And so they show up. And if it’s all resume driven, and if you’re like a real like hardcore sales person, and it’s my mission, my passion, my years in business, my great negotiating skills, my President’s Club four years in a row. You’re gonna lose them. That’s not what matters to them.
Nancy: Well, what I wanted to add was in listening to you describe that, you’re not describing what you do to help others correct and, and why people come to you, versus this is my great story and hope you love it come to me.
Brynne: So, the interesting thing is, the next mistake people make is they tell them how they can help them first.
Nancy: Okay.
Brynne: So you have to earn the right for them to care about how you can help them. And I’m not saying you have to tell them how they could buy from you, or they’ll never buy from you. But you’ve got to earn the right for them to care about that. And so that’s where the resource piece comes in. So, and there’s two major places to be a resource. Could be more, but two that we really stress, which is the about section and the featured section. So most people start their about section about me. Move all that into the experience. About you, about the company, about your products and services, move that into the experience, and make the about section about them.
And don’t tell them how you can help them, actually help them. That’s the difference, right? If we will we help companies from go from this size to this size, we’ve helped a company move from a $10 million company to $100 million company in five years. We’ve all right, like, so I don’t even care yet. Because here’s the thing, they’re not actively shop, most of them are not actively shopping your stuff. They’re not at a networking meeting, you went up to someone in a networking meeting, and you’re in your first conversations, you’re talking about how we’ve helped other companies succeed, their eyes are rolling in the back of their head going, I can’t wait to get over to the crab dip and lead this person.
But we’re doing it on LinkedIn, right? On LinkedIn. So what do we have to do, we have to really provide value. And I am going to make a bet that almost everyone on this that’s listening to this today has done this in real life, you’re talking with someone, you ask them about their business, you learn a little bit about their challenges. And we offer value and insights before we talk about our company. We offer some ideas for that we offer right and now all of a sudden, they’re like, oh, this is a smart person, this person is real. We’re not this is totally free consulting. And there are some sales trainers that say don’t ever give free consulting away.
And I say hogwash, give it away as much as you want. I mean, not the same person for hours at a time, but a lot of people for 10 minutes at a time, right? Because they get to test drive you. Right. And you don’t very well maybe it’s different today, but very few people ever bought a car without test driving it, you got to drive the car for 10 minutes for free. And then if you wanted to keep driving the car, you bought it. But if you didn’t test drive it, you may not have known you’d love that car. And so we have to let them test drive us. And that comes out of bringing insights and value to the conversation naturally and organically in a way that says, oh my god, that was the free stuff like in the back of their head. Imagine if I worked with them.
So back to the profile. That’s the job of the profile to do that to let them test drive us. So your about section should cover the challenge, some real insights, some aha moments that get them not only learning something new, but thinking differently about the way they’re doing business today, because that’s what gets them to raise their hand and say, yeah, I’m open to a conversation.
Nancy: Well, so I kind of think maybe we covered this because I had asked you to come up with a unique idea that is different and sets you apart, I guess within your space, right, the world of other LinkedIn marketers, what makes you unique?
Brynne: I think one of the things that I do is I simplify everything. My clients will are blown away at how simple it is to implement what we teach. There are a lot of people that are really smart in our space. But everything seems very complicated and it’s over. Not I don’t wanna say overthought because you know, when I listened to it, I love it. But I’m on that level potentially, right? But for new people, like our trainings are short, but they’re impactful and they know exactly what to do and how to do it. And they have the right mindset for it. So they know why. They know how, and they get like that we’re working toward a goal and this what we’re doing right now is part of that goal. There’s very little fluff in anything you do.
Nancy: Well, that’s right up my alley. Talk to me about something you would like to spotlight. What in particular you want to share with the audience?
Brynne: Or you mean in an insights perspective?
Nancy: Well, um, you know, I know that you have the social sales link, maybe you can talk further about that and a membership program.
Brynne: We do. So everything is simple. Our e learning, it’s $99. And then we have if you’re a member, and you have coaching at $29 a month, so we keep it really, really simple. We have a twice weekly group coaching calls where our members come on, and they ask their questions, and they share their screens. And as a community, we work together to really bring value and insights. And what’s really fun is like much the people in the community are doing business with each other. And the people in the community are referring each other.
So it’s gone way beyond like my little project. And it’s really an animal in and of itself, which is amazing. I’m so obsessed with it. I’m so happy. And then on the other side of it, which is our primary business or has been for most of the years is the corporate training. We teach both LinkedIn and Sales Navigator to sales teams.
Nancy: Okay. And you know, I’m sure, just a guess here that you’re full of interesting stories. Do you have one you would share with the audience?
Brynne: Oh, sure. Okay, um, this is my own story. I have client stories, too. But I would say probably nine, eight or nine years ago, I was practicing what I teach. So I had a client named Rob Petcove, who owned a benefits company now they’ve been bought out by Gallagher since but it was his own little benefits company the time. And we did some great stuff for them. And so of course, I’m gonna ask for referrals, because that’s what we do is really good sales people.
But what I teach is to mine connections, and instead of saying, Rob, who do you know, I would say, Rob, I see, you know, these people, when we talk through them. One of them happened to be Rob Curley, who was a heavy hitter at TD Bank that I had been trying to get into for years and just had no luck. And I said, so how do you know Rob Curley? He goes, both our boys had juvenile diabetes. We’ve been in the same group since they were little. And he’s a great guy. I really love him. So can you make an introduction? Sure. Within 20 minutes, it was still in his office. I had a reply with Monday morning. 10am. Here’s the address.
Nancy: Love it.
Brynne: I showed up. And he looked at me and he’s like, alright, go. And I said, Well, why am I here he goes, because if Rob Petcove asked me to do something I’m doing and he’s one of my favorite people. So I said, if I can show you commercial lenders, how you can do the same thing he looked at his calendar, he said two weeks from Thursday. 11am. By the way, how much and it was the fastest sale I ever made. And they are still my client today.
Nancy: Love it. Wow. I think I don’t know if you document that story. Pass it out. Because it’s a good one, for sure. It’s leveraging the connections on LinkedIn.
Brynne: Yeah, that story is actually in my first book, that I published.
Nancy: Okay.
Brynne: But I mean, I’ve told it for years and years, and I’ve actually even told it to Rob’s team. So.
Nancy: I love it. Yeah. So tell me something that’s true that almost nobody agrees with you on.
Brynne: So I don’t know if nobody agrees with me on this. But we just finished a study. So I proved something out. So I don’t know, completely like no one agrees with me, because I do think there are people even colleagues that agree. And one particular colleague that inspired the study. But it’s whether or not to send someone a link to content. So we typically, throughout you would say, you know, hey, I noticed you’re interested in this. And this, I found a blog post on this topic. Here are some of the great insights, thought you get some value from it. Here’s the link. I’d love to hear your thoughts.
So we did that for a long time just sharing valuable content, nurturing our connections. And one of the my colleagues said, that feels really spammy today. I really, this is an existing connection that I’ve had engagement with, but okay, so let’s, if that’s feeling spammy, let’s ask permission. So now, you know, I might say, hey, Nancy, I came across this article in Selling Magazine that I thought, you know, as someone who is deeply connected into sales, training, coaching, you find it of interest. Some of my takeaways were this, this and this, let me know if you’d like the link, I’d be happy to send it over to you.
Nancy: Okay.
Brynne: So we did the test. And literally last week we finished it. We did 100 messages, giving the link and 100 messages, asking permission to send the link. The 100 messages that we sent, we got 19 click throughs. Not bad. Right? You okay, 19? That’s not bad, right? And remember, these are existing connections. So it’s not cold calling. It’s just nurturing people that we’ve already connected to. So 19 sounds right. But the second hundred, 69 of them said, sure, send me the link and 58 clicked through.
Nancy: Wow.
Brynne: Right?
Nancy: Yeah.
Brynne: They didn’t feel spammy. I think two things happen. And now what I’m about to say is not part of the study. It’s my observation. Number one, they didn’t feel spammed by me. All right, they had the option, and they didn’t feel like I was trying to throw a link in their face. The second thing is FOMO fear of missing out, if I send you the link, you have the link, you can click through anytime, you’re not missing anything. It’s always available to you. If I dont’ send the link, you’re probably like, hmm, I wonder if that’s a good link.
Nancy: I bet you’re right. Cool. So I’m just curious, what would be the next step, the people that went into it.
Brynne: So I mean, it would depend on so in this particular case, the next step was inviting them to if they clicked through inviting them to a webinar that was on that subject, which is in two weeks, so I’ll let you know. But that was the cadence we decided. So it looks like you had some interest in a day in the life of a social seller was around cadence and putting, you know, kind of a process around your social selling, if you’re interested, it’s completely free. And then we’ll sell them into the E learning for $99. At the end, they’re gonna get so much value. Right? You know, you know, but but that’s sort of the cadence. And then and if they want to hop off and not listen to the pitch, I mean, we’ll be really one of my transition slides is because I teach them about, you know, do we earn the right, we earned the right idea.
And I’ll say, did we earn the right to tell you a little bit about how you could work with us? Put a y in chat? And everyone, yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes. Right. So we just did a permission base, can I sell to you? So my webinar runs the same way as everything else, then I’m asking you permission, can I tell you how you can work with us in the $99 you learning $29 a month coaching, and my and we sent it out to way more than those 200. But those were the 200 we were tracking for the money. And then most of the others were permission based. But we’ll probably have three or 400 people that register and maybe 150 to two hundred people that show up and maybe 75 that buy.
Nancy: All right, yeah. I’ll take that right.
Brynne: Yes, absolutely.
Nancy: Yeah. We are coming to the end of an amazing conversation. And the one takeaway, if anybody walks out of this or stop, you know, gets out of this program, what would that be? What do you want to leave the listeners with?
Brynne: The one takeaway is really treat the person on the other side of the message the same way you would on the other side of the table? These are human beings that we’re doing business with no automation, no bots, you wouldn’t send a robot to network for you. Just show up, be human, be of value. Have real conversations, the sales will come when the time is right.
Nancy: Wow. How can we find you? How can my listeners get in front of you?
Brynne: Well, I’m still the only Brynne Tillman on LinkedIn, which is pretty good. So that works. You can also access our free content and find us there at socialsaleslink.com/library, and there’s a ton of great resources there. But I think that’s those are probably the best ways to connect.
Nancy: Well, if this was awesome for me, and I hope it’s been awesome for all of you listening in. Have a fantastic sales day everyone and remember, reach out to Brynne. Let’s all get the most out of LinkedIn marketing. See you next time.
Voiceover: The Conversational Selling Podcast is sponsored by One of a Kind Sales. If you’re frustrated that you don’t have enough leads or your sales team complains that they just don’t have enough time to prospect, we can help. To work with Nancy and her team one on one to help you manage your sales team, install her proven outbound sales process and create more bottom line results, email her now at Nancy@oneofakindsales.com. To learn more about Nancy and her outbound sales secrets, grab your free copy of her book, The Inside Sales Solution at oneofakindsales.com/book.
by Nancy Calabrese | Mar 1, 2021 | Podcast
On this week’s episode of Conversational Selling, we speak with Fred Diamond, President, Executive Director, and Co-Founder of IES, the Institute for Excellence in Sales. He’s also the host of the award-winning Sales Game Changers Podcast.
Fred started his prolific career in software sales with Apple, Compaq, and Compuware, and had a side-hustle as an in-demand party DJ. He has interviewed 1000s of sales professionals and leaders, always seeking tips to pass on to IES members to help them get better at the art and science of professional sales.
We chat with Fred about all he’s learned from hosting a webinar a day, as well as:
- The three big challenges everyone is facing right now
- Being empathetic to customers’ concerns
- The three keys to successful sales
- Differentiating yourself as a professional by staying committed to your development
- And more
Mentioned in this episode:
Transcript
Voiceover: You’re listening to The Conversational Selling Podcast with Nancy Calabrese.
Nancy Calabrese: Hi it’s Nancy Calabrese, and it’s time for Conversational Selling the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today. And it always starts with the human conversation. Joining me today is Fred Diamond, Executive Director and Co-Founder of IES, the Institute for Excellence in Sales. He’s also the host of the Sales Game Changers podcast. Fred is an engaging, energetic sales professional who spent time as an in demand party DJ, that sounds like it was a lot of fun, Fred. He’s interviewed 1000s of sales professionals about their career, always seeking tips to pass on to IES members, and leaders to help them get better at the art and science of professional sales. He’s an exceptional speaker who frequently helps companies improve their sales processes, and stay ahead of the trend. I you know, I’m really excited to get started today, Fred, and I’m hoping to pick up some interview tips along the way. Welcome to the show.
Fred Diamond: Nancy, it’s great to talk to you. Everything you just said is absolutely true. So it’s great to be here.
Nancy: Hey, I don’t know if we want to start with the DJ, or actually a sales trend. So why don’t we start off with the sales trend? You know, we’re in 2021. Everyone’s anxious to move forward and to grow. What are some of the trends that you’re seeing in sales right now?
Fred: Yeah, there’s tons we do a webinar a day at the Institute for Excellence in Sales. And I do want to do one quick comment about the DJing. I’m glad you brought it up. I was a DJ after college. On weekends. I worked for McGraw Hill publishing for a couple years. And on weekends, Friday, Saturday, Sundays, I would I would DJ weddings, proms, bar mitzvahs, you know, the whole thing. And I like to say like to say I learned more about life. And not just sales, but about life in general as a, as a party DJ than I did working for Apple Computer, getting my MBA, running the Institute for Excellence in Sales, just understanding how people interact, understanding how people engage. So I still reflect back on various moments of doing probably, I don’t know, maybe 200 parties.
Nancy: Wow. Why did you stop?
Fred: Well, it was it was a weekend gig. It was after college. Again, I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do for a career. And I’ve always liked loved music, and I did a little interning in high school as a DJ for one of the stations. I grew up in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, always into music always in a rock and roll etc. So you know, it was an opportunity. It was a big DJ company in town and I applied to one of their one of their Help Wanted ads member Help Wanted ads.
Nancy: Oh, yeah.
Fred: I really dug it, it helped me to raise some cash. And, you know, it was always fun. But eventually it just became to be honest with just became work became a, like any other job that you’re working for hours for you know, I got paid to do a three or four hour party. And you pretty much got paid the same amount. And eventually, they all pretty much just became the same thing over and over again. And it was time for me to really embrace my life and my career at the time.
Nancy: All right, so let’s get back to the trends. What are some of the trends that you’ve seen out there right now?
Fred: Now we see tons and again every day we’re doing a webinar, which we’re converting to a Sales Game Changers podcasts, I tell you a couple of them. This was a great example that came up from a consultant a guy named David Morelli. And he used to run a very, very popular podcast called Everything is Energy. And I’ve been a follower and now we’re friends. And we had him on our on our web getting a webcast on a Thursday. So every Thursday, we do a webcast called the Optimal Sales Mindset webinar. And all we talk about every single week is mindset related topics, Nancy, and David made a point that has stuck with me. And I’ve been communicating this to everybody I talked to he basically said, and again, this was May of last year and I think this is still applicable.
We all have the same three challenges. Everybody in the business world and social world in the planet has the same three challenges. One is getting past COVID getting past the pandemic side of COVID and, you know now of course there’s vaccines so you know, that whole process. Second thing, everybody is challenge with the financial side of COVID. And how that’s impacted small business, how that’s effect impacted the sales process, how that’s impacted, you know, everybody’s day to day life. You know, a lot of people have lost jobs, a lot of people have lost interest in their jobs. But a lot of people who are motivated, committed still need to be focused.
And the third thing that David talked about whatever third, you know, what’s impacting you, specifically, what’s impacting your company, what’s impacting your family. So everybody is dealing with those three things. And if we realize that and understand that, that can lead to the next thing, which is the need to ensure that you continue to be empathetic in your relations.
Nancy: Well, I, you know, I think empathy is really critical nowadays, right? And it draws us all together, especially with uncertain times, I see it day in and day out. But empathy is also an such an important skill in sales, wouldn’t you say?
Fred: Oh, absolutely. And it’s kind of interesting. So, you know, we’re all kind of dealing our lives pre pandemic, and post pandemic, right. So I’ve been running the Institute for Excellence in Sales since 2012. And prior to the pandemic, I was doing a podcast, it was just audio called the Sales Game Changers podcast. And prior to the pandemic, we had done about 215, interviews with sales VPS. And one of the trends was that you needed to be an empathetic seller. And I thought I understood what that meant, you know, basically empathy being the ability to put yourself in the other person’s shoes, or ability to view where the other person is coming from, so that you could be of service to them.
And then pandemic kicks in. And we started doing the daily webinars. And empathy became one of the three big words and I’ll share the other two in a second. But they became one of the three big words. And people were were not quite grasping, what it truly meant to be successful in sales, that you had to also be empathetic. And I remember this great interview we did on our webcast, it was the VP of sales for the International Spy Museum, which is this great Museum in downtown DC.
Nancy: Oh, I’ve been there. It’s awesome.
Fred: It’s fantastic. And they’ve put a lot of work into it. And the VP of sales, this guy named Dan Cole. And the question came in via the panel via the webcast. I’m struggling with being empathetic right now, do I have to still be empathetic. And this was two months into the pandemic. And Dan gave a great reply. He said, You have to always be empathetic, to be successful in sales. And if you’re struggling with it, take the weekend off, and go meditate and think through go journal, whatever. And think it through. Because if you forget to be empathetic for a millisecond in sales, then it’s about you, it’s about the customer. And you’ll be toast. And your process will go downhill from there.
Nancy: Yep. What about the other two?
Fred: Preparation. Preparation is huge. So here’s one of the interesting things, as well, that the podcast about the the lessons we’ve learned, you always need to bring value to customers. So whatever it is, you need to bring value, or else the customer really doesn’t have a need for you. And this has become even more dramatic after the pandemic, for a couple of reasons. Some of the reasons we already talked about people are struggling, people are challenged. Certain industries have gotten destroyed, like the entertainment industry, and the in person, sports industry, right? Obviously, the small the small restaurant and the restaurant, and the whole restaurant industry has obviously gone through turmoil. Some charities have had their best year ever, but some charities have had extremely difficult times.
So if we’re talking to customers, we now need to bring them even more value than ever. Because through dealing with their own challenges, they’re not really that interested in a sales pitch. They’re not interested in more productivity. They’re interested in one of those three things we talked about before. How are you going to help me get past COVID? The challenges related to it? How are you going to help me get my company’s business back in order because of the financial hit, and then once again, whatever the third thing might be specific to the industry or to the company. So you have to spend a tremendous amount of time preparing to ensure that you’re communicating the value you can bring if you figured it out.
Nancy: And what’s the third idea?
Fred: The third idea is that and this goes back to a common sales refrain. We’ve been running the Institute for Excellence in Sales since 2012. People ask me all the time, what’s the main thing you’ve learned or what is the biggest takeaway that you’ve had? Since starting the Institute for Excellence in Sales, and I tell people, it’s the phone. The phone is the number one sales tool, verbal conversations with prospects, customers or partners. And it’s by the phone, it’s not via email. It’s not via text. Not via LinkedIn, those could be helpful. I do a lot of LinkedIn, I send a lot of emails. But it’s not until I physically pick up the phone and engage in a conversation where possibility can happen. One of our great guests, do you know Alex Goldfayn? You ever come across Alex?
Nancy: No, no,
Fred: He’s an author, he wrote the Revenue Growth Habit. But his most recent book that he published, it’s probably in June, it was called Five minute Selling. And basically, it was a whole bunch of processes around picking up the phone, and you know, how to how to manage your, your in person verbal communications. So I tell people all the time, I said, if you’re struggling, if you’re having a challenging day, pick up the phone, call a prospect. It’s not a prospect, call partner, or call a friend, but it’s those verbal conversations. And we forget about them. And there’s been so many other things, Nancy, that we’ve learned over the last year, but but those are, I would say, those are three of the big ones.
Nancy: Yeah. Well, you know, and for everyone out there, I didn’t pay Fred to talk about the importance of the phone, you know, you’re speaking my language, Fred. So, thanks.
Fred: No, absolutely. I mean, that’s, that’s how we first got connected. I mean, I, we discovered each other, but I know that you’re in that space, and you guys have done a tremendous job helping so many companies reach their prospects. And you know, the reality and you know, this, obviously, people don’t love picking up the phone. And people don’t even they don’t even love calling their you know, their best customer.
There’s always, you know, am I bothering you? Is this an okay, time? You know what, there’s a couple things that have happened over the last 10 months that make pick up the phone even more imperative. One is, you know, people are watching webinars or listening to podcasts like ours. They’re reading LinkedIn posts, and engaging in conversation. So people also getting a little fatigued about zoom, as we know. So people are have found themselves in some cases disengaging from verbal communications and conversations. We spend so much time at the Institute, helping people think through the conversations they want to have. And we break past the fear of picking up the phone.
Nancy: Yeah, you know what I’m like, why don’t we talk more about IES. I think everybody is intrigued with it and give us some more insight.
Fred: Well, I’m intrigued. So I would seriously, you know, you mentioned my marketing strategy. So, I worked at companies like Apple and Compaq, and a large software company called Compuware. I then went to work as an outsourced chief marketing officer. And my tagline was, we said in the beginning, marketing that doesn’t lead to revenue reward is a huge waste of time and money. And I’ve even though I’ve been in marketing, and my MBA is in marketing, I’ve always believed that marketing is about sales.
So we created the Institute for Excellence in Sales, mainly to meet more sales VPs, because they were who was hiring us as marketing consultants, or product marketing strategy or outsource chief marketing officer. I needed, yes, I need to be in the room with more sales leaders. So we came up with the idea for the IES, we did a couple of things we would bring speakers. One of the ways you and I got connected was the Sales Hunter, Mark Hunter was on one of our recent shows, we brought Mark to DC a couple times got to know him, placed him at a couple of places or referred him to a couple of customers and companies that had been coming to our programs, and started asking for more things they asked for. Why don’t we do a program for women in sales? Why don’t you do a program for young sales professionals?
You know, why don’t you get a training program instantiated at my company. So we started doing more and more things. We’ve met more and more great people along the way. And now basically, we do four things. We, we have a big award event, typically it was live in the spring. In 2020, it was virtual, and 2021 it’s going to be virtual again. And we recognize companies recognize companies for operational excellence and sales. Second thing we do is we have a designation called the premier sales employer, where we recognize companies that are great places for sales professionals to work. And our 2020 guide is coming out in February. Thurd thing we do is every day we do a webinar open to members and we also let other people come to them. Tuesday we do a webinar just on women in sales buying for women in sales. Wednesday I interview sales VPS. Thursday we do the optimal sales mindset, where we talk about you know how to refine what’s going on between your ears to be as effective as possible in sales. And every Friday we do a show called creativity and sales where we talk about a sales tactic or procedure or technique or process.
We convert them to Sales Game Changers audio podcasts, and then we post them on LinkedIn. And we have about 10,000 impressions. Our members can watch them behind your firewall whenever they want. And finally, we have we have a thriving women in sales program. And it’s called the women in sales leadership forum. It’s a six session cohort over two months, where we work with women in sales in their first, second, or third level of leadership and help them take their careers to the next level.
Nancy: Wow, we could go on and on. Tell me something that’s true that almost nobody agrees with you on.
Fred: You know, it’s interesting, I believe, that might be answering differently than how we talked about this before. But a lot of people were wrong about sales as a profession. And a lot of people believe that it’s about charisma. A lot of people believe it’s about garrulousness, you know, being comfortable speaking to people, and it’s not, we’ve done so much work with great sales professionals and great sales teams, that we understand that sales really is about, there’s an art to it, but there’s also a science, but even more importantly, it’s a skill. And it’s a profession that you need to continually refine.
I’ll tell you one of the other main lessons we had from doing the webinars every day, you know, you may recall, Nancy, the beginning of 2020, everybody thought that 2020 was going to be their best year ever, right? In January, February, a lot of people it did turn out to be that way. But in January and February, everybody thought 2020 is gonna be your best year. But then pandemic kicks in lockdown kicks in. And transactions weren’t happening, like people thought they were going to be for all the reasons that we’re familiar with. So we began, we began to realize that if you’re a sales professional, okay, well, what do professionals do when the transactions aren’t happening?
So you work on certain skills, you understand empathy, like we talked about before you study your customers market, so that you can provide that value, the same way that, you know, golf tournaments were canceled. But you know, the great golfers were out there at the driving range, or the putting green. Professional athletes whose games were canceled. We’re still going to the gym or working in a home gym, I should say.
Nancy: Sharpening their skills.
Fred: Exactly.
Nancy: You can’t stop. You continue. You diverted, if you would, right?
Fred: Exactly. And that’s the whole notion is that, okay? If you’re a sales professional, be a professional. And what does that mean? What do you need to work on? And usually, it’s one of three things, it’s the skill around sales conversations, learning how to be comfortable picking up the phone and making conversations. Secondly, it’s about the mindset, it’s about, you know, being prepared, no preparation, showing up on time, those kinds of things, confidence, you know, accountability. And the third thing, of course, is understanding what you sell and what your customer buys your, your solutions for. And really, really getting deep into understanding your customers market and where the customers market is today in the COVID world.
Nancy: Wow. I, you know, I can’t believe we could go on and on. We’re running out of time, what is the one takeaway you’d like to leave the audience with?
Fred: That’s a great question. You know, it’s interesting, we end every single database that I’m sorry, every single webinar that we do, and we ask the guests, give us one action step, you’ve given us so many great things, give us one action step to be successful. And I’m going to go back to what we talked about before, and looking at a lot of the things that I typically tell people, but I’m going to tell people to pick up the phone.
And, again, it’s not just to make 50 phone calls a day, like, you know, like you guys help people do. It’s, it’s really pick up the phone and continue to develop the relationships that you have. Have the courage and what you know, one of the key things about sales too, is it’s about courage, courage to pick up the phone, courage to ask for the next meeting, courage to ask for a referral, courage to ask for the deal. Courage to you know, to to ask for recommendation, those things. Work on that. But first of all, man, pick up the phone, it’s your best friend, get comfortable. If you do that 10 times today, you’ll have a better 2021 than you would have if you hadn’t.
Nancy: Oh, and you can’t get COVID over the phone.
Fred: You can’t, unless you’re calling from a bar.
Nancy: Right? Don’t do that, folks.
Fred: Wear masks, please. Let’s get this over with.
Nancy: How can my audience get in touch with you, Fred? I think you’re terrific. And I think they’re gonna want to speak with you.
Fred: Thanks, Nancy. It’s very kind and it’s been it’s been an honor. Yeah, I know you’re starting on your, your podcast journey. And I want to let you know that you may not realize this, but I think you’re doing it the right way. You know, you’re you’re trying to figure out how to make your show valuable. How to make it worthwhile and interesting for people who are trying to take their sales careers to the next level. So I applaud you for the efforts.
The best way to find me is LinkedIn. We have a obviously we have the salesgamechangerspodcast.com website and we have the I for the letter I the number four esbd.com website where you can find our daily webinars, but the best way is go to LinkedIn and engage with me. And I’d love to see how many people do that based on this webinar. And we’re we post content every day on webinars on LinkedIn and it’s it’s our friend and it should be your friend as well.
Nancy: First of all, thank you for your kind words. I think another benefit and reaching out to Fred since he’s a rock and roller you guys can all be rollers out there can swap stories and talk about sales. So Fred, I hope you’ll come back we have a lot more to discuss. This has just been absolutely great. And for everyone out there happy selling. Make the phone your friend.
Voiceover: The Conversational Selling podcast is sponsored by One of a Kind Sales. If you’re frustrated that you don’t have enough leads, or your sales team complains that they just don’t have enough time to prospect, we can help. To work with Nancy and her team one on one to help you manage your sales team, install her proven outbound sales process and create more bottom line results, email her now at Nancy@oneofakindsales.com. To learn more about Nancy and her outbound sales secrets, grab your free copy of her book, The Inside Sales Solution at oneofakindsales.com/book.
