by Nancy Calabrese | Apr 5, 2024 | Podcast
About Natalie Doyle Oldfield: Natalie Doyle Oldfield is the President of Success Through Trust, which works with some of the world’s most successful companies to increase sales, become more profitable, and increase customer trust and loyalty. She is also a keynote speaker, trainer, and thought leader. Natalie is the author of The Power of Trust: How Top Companies Build, Manage and Protect It. Success Through Trust has developed a methodology and award-winning programs based on this research. The book was named one of the Top 5 business books of 2017 by the Chronicle Herald. Natalie was named a Top Thought Leader in Trust by Trust Across America Trust Around the World in 2018 and 2017. Check out the latest episode of our Conversational Selling podcast to learn more about Natalie.
In this episode, Nancy and Natalie discuss the following:
- The fundamental importance of trust in business relationships
- Natalie’s experience as a chief marketing officer during the 2008 financial crisis
- The role of trust in business-to-business transactions
- The outcome of Natalie’s research: Trust is a fundament of every buying decision in business-to-business environments
- Why customers are willing to pay more for products and services from trusted companies
Key Takeaways:
- I created a proprietary framework and a model to help people build these relationships of trust with their customers and colleagues.
- Trust is what the most successful companies have in common.
- People and companies that are focused on building relationships of trust are the ones that are going to be most successful.
- Everybody can learn how to build a relationship or strengthen a relationship of trust and we can all cultivate and develop these skills.
“There is nothing more important than trust. And if we think about it, every single decision we make comes down to trust. First, we decide: do we trust? Then, we decide: are we going to listen? Afterward, we decide if we’re going to have a conversation. Following that, we decide if we’re going to look at someone’s capabilities. We make these decisions subconsciously. In fact, in every business and personal relationship, trust plays a crucial role. Because I know most of your listeners are either working in a business, own a business, or are leaders in a business, trust is involved in every single relationship we have. It’s the most important question everyone has.” – NATALIE
“I became deeply intrigued by how customers decide to buy in a business-to-business environment that I went back to school. I did graduate research, which led me to the science of trust. My master’s thesis revolved around how people decide to buy in such environments. I found out quite quickly that it all starts with trust. First, we decide to trust, then we decide to buy. And you know, lonely wolf, there’s a wonderful, very, very strong, much stronger than when I started 10 years ago, business case for learning and cultivating and developing relationships of trust. And, you know, worldwide, as we know, people buy from people they trust. Well, the fact is that 80% of us buy from a company or an organization we trust. And we pay more. We pay more when we trust. If I’m going to go out for a coffee, I’m going to pay more for a Starbucks coffee because I trust that coffee. I trust the company. I know they know how to create and make an amazing coffee and it’s consistent. It tastes the same just like we know in business-to-business environments companies that will provide us with services we trust, or advice we trust, or products that are safe and secure to use, or are going to do what they say they’re going to do. So that’s how I got into it.” – NATALIE
“We all decide to trust. We make, as I mentioned, a subconscious decision. And we make that decision based on another person’s communication, how they behave, and how they service us. So, it really comes down to these three components, Nancy. So, when you and I are buying a product or service, we’re evaluating another person. And when we say we trust a company, well, companies, as we know, are made up of people. So as an example, when we are buying, say, professional services, like an engineering service, design services to ref- let’s say we’re going to renovate a factory, we would and we’re the business owner and we own this plant, this factory. Well, we would most likely talk to a few different engineering firms to get a design. And we would have conversations and as you know, because you know, this is what you share with your audience, it all comes down to conversations and connecting with people.” – NATALIE
Connect with Natalie Doyle Oldfield:
Try Our Proven, 3-Step System, Guaranteeing Accountability and Transparency that Drives RESULTS by clicking on this link: https://oneofakindsales.com/call-center-in-a-box/
Connect with Nancy Calabrese:
Voiceover: You’re listening to The Conversational Selling Podcast with Nancy Calabrese.
Nancy Calabrese: Hi, it’s Nancy Calabrese, and it’s time again for Conversational selling – the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today and it always starts with the human conversation. Today we’re speaking with Natalie Doyle Oldfield, the president of Success Through Trust, Inc. and creator of the Client Trust Index. This index measures true customer sentiment and gives you customer insight in a quantifiable score. She has 25 years of experience in IT and has trained hundreds of technical team members to become trusted advisors to their clients. Natalie is also the author of The Power of Trust, How Top Companies Build, Manage, and Protect It. She was recently recognized as one of Canada’s most inspiring women entrepreneurs and has been named as one of the world’s top thought leaders in trust. Welcome to the show, Natalie. I trust this is going to be a great one, no pun intended.
Natalie Doyle Oldfield: Great to be here, Nancy. I’m so happy to be here. I know we tried to do this before, so this is so exciting to be here today with you and your listeners. [1:37]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, thanks for being patient, by the way. And I want to go back on being named one of the world’s top thought leaders in trust. Congratulations. How did that come about? And what did you do to earn it?
Natalie Doyle Oldfield: Well, thank you very much. I was named by an association called Trust Across America, Trust Around the World. And I was named actually for five consecutive years in a row. And each year I had a colleague, or a client nominate me. And focus 100% of my business on helping business owners grow by earning their customers and their employee’s unshakable trust. And I created a proprietary framework and a model, Nancy, to help people build these relationships of trust with their customers and colleagues. And I believe it’s this model that’s, you know, based on science and evidence and all this academic research and working with lots of folks and business owners around the world that makes me one of you know the people that they have awarded this to and it’s a great honor to be named one of the top world thought leaders in trust and yeah. [3:13]
Nancy Calabrese: Wow. Well, that’s a huge bravo to you and a huge accomplishment. I know you’ve said if there’s no trust, there’s no sale. So why is trust so important, especially as it relates to business?
Natalie Doyle Oldfield: Nancy, there is nothing more important than trust. And if we think about it, you know, your every single decision we make comes down to trust. First, we decide, do we trust? Then we decide, are we going to listen? Then we decide if we’re going to have a conversation. Then we’re going to decide if we’re going to look at someone’s capabilities. We decide this subconsciously. In fact, in every business relationship and personal relationship but in every business relationship because I know most of your listeners are working at either in a business or own a business or a leader in a business it’s in its involved in every single relationship, we have it’s the most important question everyone has. [4:24]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, you know, I’m just thinking, I certainly don’t want to be around or be associated with people I don’t trust. So, you know, I guess my question is, what drew you to the science of trust? And why did you decide to focus on it?
Natalie Doyle Oldfield: What a great question. Well, the short and long answer is I spent about 25 years working in various roles in companies that were either in product management or marketing or communications and in sales in a variety of different industries, but all in the IT industry to support people in financial services or education or hospitality. And what I saw was that the most successful companies all had something in common, Nancy, and I didn’t really know what it was. And several years ago in 2008, I was asked to take over while chief marketing officer for a company, a sales role. And I really was quite nervous about doing that, hesitant, let’s say. And didn’t really want to do it. Um, even though I love talking to customers and I love helping customers solve their problems. I’ve always loved that. And I’m curious and always want to help people grow their companies. So, um, eventually I did decide to take over and, um, then the market crashed in September 2008, and I was a month into this new role, and I really wanted to be successful in this new role and looked around and asked the folks that I knew who were very successful in successful companies, how is it that you sell? Like here I am in charge of sales, and I never did have any sales training. And all of them said, basically just keep focusing on the customer relationships, just keep providing value and do whatever you can do to help them out. So, we did, the entire team did, and then within 30-60 days, our sales started going back up. Well, and this was quite significant, Nancy, because our software we were selling to, the hospitality industry, and that industry, just like what happened during the pandemic, was really hard hit with the financial crisis. In the B2B world, people weren’t going to conventions and conferences, they stop traveling. That’s what they do when they cut expenses often. So fast forward, I thought, okay, well, we did all this, and it worked. We actually, not only did we retain customers, but we won some new customers by just focusing everyone on the team. I got so interested in how is it that customers decide to buy in a business-to-business environment that I actually went back to school. [7:36]
Nancy Calabrese: Right.
Natalie Doyle Oldfield: And I did graduate research. And this is how I got into the science of trust. And I did a master’s in, and a thesis was all around, how is it in a business-to-business environment do people decide to buy? And I found out quite quickly, it all starts with trust. First, we decide to trust, then we decide to buy. And you know, lonely wolf, there’s a wonderful, very, very strong, much stronger than when I started 10 years ago, business case for learning and cultivating and developing relationships of trust. And, you know, worldwide, as we know, people buy from people they trust. Well, the fact is 80% of us buy from a company or an organization we trust. And we pay more. We pay more when we trust. If I’m going to go out for a coffee, I’m going to pay more for a Starbucks coffee because I trust that coffee. I trust the company. I know they know how to create and make an amazing coffee and it’s consistent. It tastes the same just like we know in business-to-business environment companies that will provide us with services we trust, or advice we trust, or products that are safe and secure to use, or are going to do what they say they’re going to do. So that’s how I got into it. [9:15]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, but what exactly is the science behind trust? I’m confused by that.
Natalie Doyle Oldfield: Well, we all decide to trust. We make, as I mentioned, a subconscious decision. And we make that decision based on another person’s communication, how they behave, and how they service us. So, it really comes down to these three components, Nancy. So, when you and I are buying a product or service, we’re evaluating another person. And when we say we trust a company, well, companies, as we know, are made up of people. So as an example, when we are buying, say, professional services, like an engineering service, design services to ref- let’s say we’re going to renovate a factory, we would and we’re the business owner and we own this plant, this factory. Well, we would most likely talk to a few different engineering firms to get a design. And we would have conversations and as you know, because you know, this is what you share with your audience, it all comes down to conversations and connecting with people. [10:49]
Nancy Calabrese: Okay.
Natalie Doyle Oldfield: And in order to connect, we have to trust. So, I’ll give you a quick example. I worked with, I worked with, I would say, medium-sized engineering firm in the US. And they focused, they do focus on doing design for factories and for, you know, they put in they have a lot of industrial engineers and mechanical engineers, and they focus on renovating plants and factories. And the owner, the senior managing partner of this firm, came to me and he said, you know, I’ve been getting a lot of complaints from my CFO, the head of finance, that our sales are down. I said, okay, your sales are down. And we’re not getting repeat business. See, typically what happens when we trust someone, we get repeat business, and we get referrals. So, he said, you know, someone suggested, another one of my clients, actually, Nancy, suggested we talk. I said, okay, well, tell me a little bit more. He said, well, here’s the problem. He said, our sales are down from our long-term customers. And I said, well, why do you think that is? He said, well, I don’t know. So, I said, well, let’s talk about your team because it all comes down to- I’ll share an example with you. I have a client, his name’s Richard, and he’s a managing partner of an engineering firm that focuses on renovating and refurbishing and bringing factories up to date to make them more efficient. And he shared with me that his sales were down and that he didn’t understand why they weren’t getting and keeping repeat customers. You see, in their world of professional services, a very large part of their revenue comes from retaining their customers, just doing more projects with the same customers. So, I said to him, it is. So, I said to him, well, tell me about your team. And the reason I said that, as you can imagine, is because trust is built in interactions with people. Companies are made up of people. So, he said, well, I have a great team. I have a lot of incredibly talented mechanical engineers, talented electrical engineers, talented project managers, junior design people, junior engineers, and they do an amazing job. I said, great. So, what else about them? Do they build confidence in the customers, in the conversations, and in the meetings? He said, well, no. He said that’s a real challenge for me. He said, you know, they’re so skilled, but they don’t know how to build relationships and they don’t know how to manage client expectations. And they’re not great communicators. He said, so, you know, not only are the sales down, he said, but he said, you know, I see new leads, expensive leads slipping away. So that was an issue. So, I said, okay, well, this is where we’re going to start. [14:12]
Nancy Calabrese: Right? Hmm.
Natalie Doyle Oldfield: We’re going to talk about how to reskill and teach your team how to build unshakable trust with your customers, because when you have unshakable trust, Nancy, you get repeat customers and referrals all day, every day. So, Richard, the managing partner and the business partner, primary business owner, he joined this trusted leadership program that I have, an accelerator program with other business leaders and business owners. And we walk through how is it that customers, the clients decide to buy and how is it that they decide to trust. And we, he gained new tools and methodologies and then taught his team. See, when you teach your team how to build unshakable trust, they start building confidence in the customers. And it was fantastic because within weeks, I was going to say days, but really weeks. They, they started getting calls and Richard specifically said, got calls from some clients that, you know, sales were just flat and there weren’t new projects coming down the pipe. And clients were saying, you know, what’s going on with this person? What’s going on with that person? In fact, there was one guy, Matt, that was a very, you know, new junior engineer who really became a rock star because he really learned how to connect with customers. And so when you learn how to earn your customers trust, You get these referrals and the repeat business and they start talking about new projects and new referrals. And what I find so exciting is that it is a skill that can be learned, Nancy, and everybody can learn how to build a relationship or strengthen a relationship of trust. We can all cultivate and develop these skills. [16:36]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, how long does it take a person to really learn those skills?
Natalie Doyle Oldfield: Well, that’s a great question. And it depends. So, it depends. So, the, you know, some people, it’s quick, Nancy, because they realize it really starts with looking at and assessing your own trustworthiness. And it really starts with, you know, becoming self-aware how we are perceived by others, how we communicate. And so, you know, we have in all our programs, everything in all of the company programs, we have individual assessments that give people tools and ways to see what their communication style is, how, you know, what their strengths are, where the gaps are. And some people, it can take a couple of weeks. Some people, it can take hours. You know, I’m very practical, so we always have a lot of hands-on tools and assessments and exercises. And you know, it’s like any new skill. When you practice it and you focus on it and you’re deliberate, Nancy, big thing, right? It’s about being deliberately applying what you learn and practicing. We see turnarounds and complete transformations. Sometimes we, you know, I’m on a Zoom call in a program and you see the light bulb go off and the person’s changed forever. [18:31]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, wow. It’s just amazing to me. I guess it’s your mindset. You must go into this being open-minded and it’s like developing a new habit, right?
Natalie Doyle Oldfield: Yeah. Yes, and it’s a hundred percent mindset. It starts with that. Nancy, I’m really glad you mentioned that. And part of that mindset is, as you said, being open. And the other part is beginning with the intention that you’re going to see the best and everyone’s trying their best and that everyone can be trustworthy. You know, I would never recommend that someone go in blindly and think, oh, you know, everybody’s trustworthy. And unfortunately, I do think that people are more skeptical now, Nancy, than ever before. I really see that. And because people are more skeptical, it means our customers are more skeptical. And it means that customers are demanding more transparency, right? They have much more access to information than they ever did before. And because they’re demanding this and they want the transparency and they want to know that people are acting in their best interests, the people and the companies that are focused on building relationships of trust are the ones that are going to be most successful. [20:14]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, yeah, I mean, it makes so much sense. I cannot believe we’re up in time, Natalie. This is a topic that we could go on and on about, but my biggest takeaway is trust is just critical in life. And the sooner we all master the art of building trust, the happier and more successful our lives will be, right? I mean, that’s my takeaway.
Natalie Doyle Oldfield: Yeah.
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. So how can my people find you?
Natalie Doyle Oldfield: Well, my name, as I mentioned, is Natalie Doyle Oldfield. You can find me on LinkedIn at Natalie Doyle Oldfield. You can also find me on my website, which is www.successthroughtrust.com And if you go to www.successthroughtrust.com I actually have an assessment that you can download, complimentary to assess the trustworthiness of your team: https://api.leadconnectorhq.com/widget/form/e8onMX2YSfIm7b402bCi. So, there’s a number of questions there for you to go through and if you’re interested in learning more you can also sign up. I have a weekly newsletter that I send out with some information and some tips always and usually a tool or two around how to build trust and would love to hear from you. The last way you can find me is if you if you’re interested in really finding out about the science of trust and the power of trust, you can go to Amazon and find my book there, which is called, as you mentioned, The Power of Trust, How Top Companies Build, Manage and Protect It. So, lots of ways, Nancy would love to hear from you and or your listeners and continue this conversation. [22:13]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, listen, everyone out there, take advantage of Natalie’s generosity. I know that I’m going to get that newsletter. And it’s just in listening to you, I have a smile on my face because you get it. It’s all about trust everywhere. And as you said, it’s a more difficult time in the world these days. So, if you focus on trust, you’re focusing on something good that will make your days better. So, I want to thank everybody for taking a listen, reach out to Natalie. And again, Natalie, thanks so much for sharing your expertise. See you next time. [22:57]
by Nancy Calabrese | Apr 2, 2024 | Podcast
About Tom Ruwitch: Tom Ruwitch is the Founder of Story Power Marketing, where he helps clients discover the building blocks for prospect-focused stories. In 2001, Tom founded the email marketing software and services company MarketVolt — before most business people had even heard of email marketing. He helps execute marketing campaigns to engage with prospects, convert sales, and maximize customer relationships. He sold MarketVolt in 2019 and founded Story Power Marketing. Today, coaches, authors, and other experts hire Tom to power up their stories because most dish out the same old boring content that turns off prospects, and then they feel frustrated and stuck. So Tom helps them transform content from prospect-repelling to client-attracting, turn marketing from frustrating to fun, and convert results from subpar to superb. Check out the latest episode of our Conversational Selling podcast to learn more about Tom.
In this episode, Nancy and Tom discuss the following:
- The best thing that can happen in your content is for somebody to read it see it or hear it and think.
- Storytelling can be a really important element of the content that you put out.
- The lesson is delegate and she can tell endless anecdotes or build endless stories to deliver that.
- You have to write in your own voice, produce videos in your own voice, and tell stories that are drawn from what you discover about your prospects and your clients, not with AI.
Key Takeaways:
- I do not engage with any company for under three months, ideally six months.
- In the majority of startups and small businesses, all the sales are typically made by the founder or, in small business cases, the president or CEO of the company.
- I had always wanted to do something on my own.
- It’s interesting how you can be fueled by the sales piece and the environment in which you sell.
“And what people need to understand that they need to do with their content is they need to inform and entertain and that’s where storytelling comes in. When you deliver valuable information in a more captivating way, that’s more story powered, more entertaining, you draw people in, you make the content more relatable and you’re more likely to be the one to stand out in your niche.” – TOM
“I would say that listening and empathy are probably the most important qualities because what it’s about is not just tell, tell. This is what I know and I’m going to tell you everything I know. That’s not what it’s about. What it’s about is hearing and watching and empathizing and understanding what is it that my prospects and clients are feeling and how is it that I can transform them from a feeling of, you know, one feeling to another, from a feeling of frustration to relief, from a feeling of fright to courage, from a feeling of stuck to free. It’s almost always about emotional transformation. Even in business-to-consumer products, it’s that way. But certainly, in business to business that it’s almost always an emotional transformation and understanding and paying attention to the feelings of your prospects and clients and using that as the basis to assemble stories is what it’s all about.” – TOM
“There are businesspeople who think that somehow storytelling is not professional, or it’s beneath them, and that: “No, I’m going to write a 1500-word white paper”, or “I must be serious”. And my response is that storytelling in and of itself is not a frivolous activity. There are a lot of frivolous, meaningless silly stories that are being dished out. You know, storytelling is a big buzzword right now in marketing and online. And so, there are a lot of people who just think, oh, I’m going to tell a funny story for stories sake, and that’s going to be great. Well, no, it’s not great unless the prospect or the client can see themselves and unless there is a lesson and meaning in that story. But those who believe that I don’t like stories, or I will be considered something less than professional if I tell stories, I think are missing the point of what a good story can do. As human beings, we are naturally drawn to stories and storytellers. There are all sorts of data to show that when information is delivered via story, we’re much more likely to retain it. We’re much more likely to trust the person who delivered the information. And we’re much more likely to act on the call to action. So, you know, anyone who feels like, oh, it’s beneath me or I don’t like stories, or my audience won’t like stories, when done properly, stories sell.” – TOM
Connect with Tom Ruwitch:
Try Our Proven, 3-Step System, Guaranteeing Accountability and Transparency that Drives RESULTS by clicking on this link: https://oneofakindsales.com/call-center-in-a-box/
Connect with Nancy Calabrese:
Voiceover: You’re listening to The Conversational Selling Podcast with Nancy Calabrese.
Nancy Calabrese: Hi, it’s Nancy Calabrese, and it’s time again for Conversational selling – the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today. And it always starts with the human conversation. Today we’re speaking with Tom Ruwitch, a consultant, content marketing expert and founder of Story Power Marketing. Tom is a digital marketing pioneer who founded the email marketing software and services company Market Vault in 2001 before most businesspeople had even heard of email marketing. Today, coaches, consultants, and other experts hire Tom to power up their stories because most dish out the same old boring content that turns off prospects and then they feel frustrated and stuck. So, Tom helps them transform content from boring to brilliant, turn marketing from frustrating to fun and convert results from pitiful to profitable. Welcome to the show, Tom, let’s get started.
Tom Ruwitch: Thank you, Nancy. [1:22]
Nancy Calabrese: Okay, just a question that comes to top of my mind. You state that most people produce boring content. Why is that? And can you give us an example of what that is?
Tom Ruwitch: Sure, sure. So, I think that this is especially true for people who sell their expertise, for people who share their expertise to serve clients, coaches, consultants, professional service providers, those sorts of folks, because the value of what they know is really, really important. So, their tendency and content are to write a blog post or put something on social or here’s what you need to know, the financial service provider. Here’s the difference between a Roth IRA and a traditional IRA, or executive coach who, here are five tips to help you delegate more effectively. It’s valuable information, but information alone is not enough. And what people need to understand that they need to do with their content is they need to inform and entertain and that’s where storytelling comes in. When you deliver valuable information in a way that is more captivating, that’s more story powered, more entertaining, you draw people in, you make the content more relatable and you’re more likely to be the one to stand out in your niche. [2:59]
Nancy Calabrese: Right. Okay, well, you know, many businesspeople that I know say they don’t have an interesting story to tell. How do you respond to that?
Tom Ruwitch: Yeah. Yeah, well, the first thing is to challenge them and say, well, get back to that. You do have interesting stories to tell. We’ll work on that. The second thing that I say is let’s not focus on the story of you. Let’s focus first on the story of your prospects and your clients. What makes them tick? Because if you focus first on your prospects and clients, what’s keeping them up at night, what problems are they dealing with, what’s frustrating them, where do they want to be, what do they want to achieve, then the stories that you tell become more relatable. If you can tell stories that reflect on them, then you’ll be able to draw them in. And the best thing that can happen in your content is for somebody to read it or see it or hear it and think, wow, you really get me. [4:03]
Nancy Calabrese: Right. Okay, so what I’m hearing you say is that in any kind of communication, you want to incorporate some type of story that relates to their world, is that correct?
Tom Ruwitch: Yeah, I think so. And it’s, you know, I’m not going to suggest that you always, in every piece of content you put out there must tell stories. But storytelling can be a really important element of the content that you put out.
Nancy Calabrese: Okay. Now I’ve also heard you say that storytelling does not have to be so complex. What do you mean by that?
Tom Ruwitch: Well, I think that people approach this, and they think that it’s very, very difficult. They sit in front of a blank screen, and they think once upon a time, now what? They wait for the creative juices to flow and the muse to strike. And it really isn’t an act of creative magic. It’s not as daunting as some people make it seem. It’s a process. I have a framework that I use for finding the stories that I teach. So, it’s called the plan framework. And the first letter is P. What’s the promise that you’re making to your clients, to your prospects? What’s the transformation that you’re hoping to achieve? Then there’s a lesson of some sort. There’s an idea, a tip, and those information only boring blog posts that I talked about before, it’s all lesson without necessarily the promise or the third part of the plan, the anecdote. The anecdote. If you wrap it in a story, there’s going to be a greater level of entertainment, a greater level of captivating of your prospect. And then the fourth N is next step. There always must be a next step or a call to action. And Nancy, if you’d like me to, I could share an example of how that plan framework transformed a boring piece of content for one of my clients into a story powered piece of content. [6:17]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeap, awesome!
Tom Ruwitch: Okay, I mentioned an executive coach earlier, and before she hired me, she had written a blog post all about delegation. I used that example a moment ago. And the blog post went something like this, delegation is one of the most important skills that a business manager or business leader can master to delegate properly. Here are five tips. Tip one, tip two, tip three. Boring. What we did is we talked about the prospect. We focused on the prospect. And out of that conversation came a story of a business owner who had never taken a vacation longer than a long weekend in 20 years of owning his business. And the reason he never took that vacation was because he feared that all heck would break loose if he left. He feared that people would call him while he’s away. And then when he returned, he’d have to mop up messes. He just didn’t trust his team. And she taught him how to delegate. And once she taught him how to delegate, he was able to leave the business with comfort and confidence and spend two weeks on vacation and love every minute of it. And when he returned, his employees were more fired up, more bought in, more empowered than they had been before. And so, the blog post, and it was an email and a blog post, had the subject line, how a stressed-out owner let go and got away. And it had a picture of a business owner, or a person lying on a hammock beach, sunset, she tells the story. I know this business owner who never went on vacation. Then eventually he went on vacation. What changed? He learned how to delegate. And then she goes into the same tips that were in that boring blog post, delegation tips. But now people are reading and paying attention because she shared with them a promise. I’m going to help you let go and get away. She delivered a lesson to let go and get away. You need to learn to delegate, here’s how. She wrapped it in an entertaining and relatable anecdote. And then she included a next step. Call me to have a free consultation. I can show you how to let go and get away. So much better with that plan framework promise lesson anecdote next step than trying to just write a boring old blog post here are five tips to delegate more effectively. [9:02]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, how long does it take people to kind of get that?
Tom Ruwitch: Well, again, it’s a process and a system. So, when clients work with me in my coaching programs and my masterminds or one-on-one consulting, we learn a methodical process to first discover, well, what are the promises that you’re really making? People are prone to talk about the details. I teach you how to delegate versus the promise, I’m going to help you let go, get away, less stress, more relief, those things. So, we go through a process of discovering the promise and figuring out where to go and how to really get down to that in effective ways that go beyond just pulling it from your head. And then we go through the process of defining, well, what are the lessons and the key things that you’re bringing to your audience? In other words, we step through the plan framework. And once you’ve done that, this gets back to the question you asked earlier about this doesn’t have to be so hard. Once you’ve gone through this process of what we call story discovery, you are armed with a collection of ideas that you can go back to over and over and over again. So, this executive coach, for example, she has her plan framework. She knows that the promise is let go, don’t feel stuck in the business, don’t feel like the way the worlds on your shoulders. That’s the promise, the transformation from stuck in your business to able to get away. The lesson is delegate. She can tell endless anecdotes or build endless stories to deliver that. Story number one was about that business owner who went on vacation finally. Story number two that she told was a story of herself being an employee of a boss who didn’t delegate and who was miserable and unhappy and everybody, nobody in the company had morale, high morale and nothing got done because he didn’t learn how to delegate. And when he finally learned how to delegate, so much more got done and he was such a happier business owner. That was a personal experience that she had that she was able to turn into a story. We helped another business coach who teaches the same thing, how to delegate. We actually pulled an anecdote, promise is the same, lesson is the same. We pulled an anecdote from one of her favorite movies, The Devil Wears Prada. [11:52]
Nancy Calabrese: Right.
Tom Ruwitch: And in that movie, the boss, the magazine owner, is a horrible delegator, and all sorts of bad things happen as a result. I’m sorry?
Nancy Calabrese: Right. It was just horrible, period. I said she was just horrible, period.
Tom Ruwitch: She was horrible, period, right? But once you know the promise and the lesson that you want to deliver, finding anecdotes becomes pretty easy. You can draw them from your slice of life. You can draw them from a client experience. You can draw them from movies or books or literature or the news. We teach our clients and walk them through how to use AI to help find anecdotes that deliver, that can serve as a fable for a given promise and lesson. So that’s the whole thing. You asked how long does it take? Ultimately, it takes some advance work, some planning, some story discovery, and once you’ve gone through the process of story discovery, you have all the building blocks that you need to create and assemble stories. There’s a great quote that I love to use from a guy named Eugene Schwartz. Eugene Schwartz was one of the most prolific and successful copywriters of the mid to late 20th century. And Eugene Schwartz never suffered from writer’s block. And one of the things Eugene Schwartz said is that copy is not written, copy is assembled. And what he meant by that is, you know, I don’t just sit in front of a blank notepad. He was writing copy before he was sitting at a computer. I don’t sit in front of a blank notepad and then just let the juices flow. I gather building blocks and assemble it. And assembling content, assembling stories is what this is all about. It’s so much easier to do than to just sit in front of a blank screen and hope. And it’s so much more effective than pressing the easy button on AI and thinking that you’re going to generate copy that resonates with your prospects. You must do the discovery part yourself, sometimes with the help of AI, but you have to write in your own voice, produce videos in your own voice, and tell stories that are drawn from what you discover about your prospects and your clients. [14:27]
Nancy Calabrese: Huh. I mean, how do you come up with content ideas?
Tom Ruwitch: Well, again, the example that I shared with this business coach, it started by me talking to her, okay, here’s this lesson that you share. Tell me why you teach people to delegate. This could be applied to anybody who’s in the coaching or the consulting business. Why is it so important that somebody understand the difference between a Roth IRA and a traditional IRA. And if you dig into it and approach it with empathy and think, all right, well, what is it that my prospects and clients are feeling? Well, they’re losing sleep at night over this. The business owner is feeling frustrated. It is sick of feeling like he’s stuck in his business. Okay, now we’re getting at the promise, okay? [15:27]
Nancy Calabrese: Right.
Tom Ruwitch: Once you have the promise and the lesson, the conversation I had with the business coach was, well, give me an example of a person you know who successfully used the lesson that you teach, delegation, to experience that sense of relief and escaping and getting away. Oh, I have a great story, Tom. The story she tells me. Here’s a story of a business owner I worked with. So we can draw
success stories from our clients. We can draw from experiences that we’ve had before. We can draw from things that we’ve read or seen in books or literature or television or movies or whatever the case may be. And sometimes if we frame it properly, we can ask AI to help us come up with some of those ideas for the anecdotes. Sometimes the anecdotes just slap us in the face. We run into something interesting that happened and we say to ourselves, oh you know what? That would make a great story about lesson X and promise Y. [16:39]
Nancy Calabrese: Wow, huh. So, what would you say is the most important skill or quality someone needs to be an effective business storyteller?
Tom Ruwitch: I would say that listening and empathy are probably the most important qualities because what it’s about not just tell, tell. This is what I know and I’m going to tell you everything I know. That’s not what it’s about. What it’s about is hearing and watching and empathizing and understanding what is it that my prospects and clients are feeling and how is it that I can transform them from a feeling of, you know, one feeling to another, from a feeling of frustration to relief, from a feeling of fright to courage, from a feeling of stuck to free. It’s almost always about emotional transformation. Even in business to consumer products, it’s that way. But certainly, in business to business that it’s almost always an emotional transformation and understanding and paying attention to the feelings of your prospects and clients and using that as the basis to assemble stories is what it’s all about. [18:06]
Nancy Calabrese: You know, do you ever come across people, businesspeople, that just don’t want to hear stories? And if so, how do you respond?
Tom Ruwitch: Well, I think that there are businesspeople who think that somehow storytelling is not professional, or it’s beneath them, and that, no, I’m going to write a 1500-word white paper, or I must be serious. And my response is that storytelling in and of itself is not a frivolous activity. There are a lot of frivolous, meaningless silly stories that are being dished out. You know, storytelling is a big buzzword right now in marketing and online. And so, there are a lot of people who just think, oh, I’m going to tell a funny story for stories sake, and that’s going to be great. Well, no, it’s not great unless the prospect or the client can see themselves and unless there is lesson and meaning in that story. But those who believe that I don’t like stories, or I will be considered something less than professional if I tell stories, I think are missing the point of what a good story can do. As human beings, we are naturally drawn to stories and to storytellers. There are all sorts of data to show that when information is delivered via story, we’re much more likely to retain it. We’re much more likely to trust the person who delivered the information. And we’re much more likely to act on the call to action. So, you know, anyone who feels like, oh, it’s beneath me or I don’t like stories, or my audience won’t like stories, when done properly, stories sell. [20:09]
Nancy Calabrese: Right. Huh. Hey, who doesn’t like the movies? They’re all stories, right? I can’t believe our time is up. This is really fascinating. Tom, last question. What is the one takeaway you want my audience to have?
Tom Ruwitch: That’s right. Yeah. I think the one takeaway would be to understand that you don’t have to be some kind of creative genius, a unicorn, to produce valuable stories. If you can learn the framework and apply a methodical system to this work, anyone can great captivating profit generating stories.
Nancy Calabrese: I love it. So how can my people find you?
Tom Ruwitch: They can find me on stor On the site you can sign up for email where I practice what I preach and you’ll see what good storytelling is all about. You can connect with me on LinkedIn. I assume you’ll put that in the show notes, Nancy. So you can look for me on LinkedIn. You can get free resources on the website. But yeah, just going to stor or emailing me directly. I’m one of those people, I don’t dole out emails to some virtual assistant who will give you a stock reply. If you email me and tell me that you heard me on Nancy’s podcast, I will absolutely reply. I’ll answer your questions. I’ll be happy to engage with you. And that email, I told you to email me. I didn’t give the address. Tom.
Nancy Calabrese: Awesome. What’s your email? Yeah. Well, I’m going to go ahead and turn it over to you.
Tom Ruwitch: Tom, T-O-M at stor
Nancy Calabrese: All right, guys, you heard it. You heard it from the expert. So let’s up our game, everyone, and do a better job in storytelling. I think what you do, Tom, is fascinating, and I really appreciate you spending time with us today. So until we speak again, good people out there, make sure you start working on that story and reach out to Tom to get his assistance. We’ll see you next time.
by Nancy Calabrese | Mar 28, 2024 | Podcast
About Umar Hameed: Umar Hameed aka Mr. Breakthrough is the CEO of No Limits Selling, a professional training and coaching company that specializes in improving the sales performance of realtors and other sales professionals. They use the latest insights from neuroscience and NLP to help realtors break through their limitations and perform at a higher level. Umar is a keynote speaker, an author, and a Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP) performance coach. Umar distinguishes himself from other consultants and trainers with his extensive track record and diverse skill set. With over 25 years of experience as a successful business and sales consultant, coupled with more than 13 years of expertise in utilizing Neuroscience, NLP, and Hypnosis to effect behavioral changes, Umar brings a unique perspective to his work. Renowned as a keynote speaker at conferences held in 14 countries, he shares his insights and knowledge with audiences worldwide. Additionally, Umar is an accomplished author, having penned three books, including the acclaimed “Unleash Your Crazy Sexy Brain!”. Check out the latest episode of our Conversational Selling podcast to learn more about Umar.
In this episode, Nancy and Umar discuss the following:
- Neuro-linguistic programming (NLP) and its role in sales training
- The concept of mindset and its significance in sales success
- The reasons why some salespeople fail to reach their potential
- The importance of discovering one’s authentic self in sales
- The role of fear and childhood experiences in shaping behavior
- The use of hypnosis to overcome mental barriers in sales
- Strategies for building a resilient sales mindset
Key Takeaways:
- What NLP is about and how to use your mindset differently.
- The reason most salespeople don’t reach their potential is they don’t ascertain or discover their true selves.
- Our conscious mind says: “No, we don’t want to do that, that’s scary”. And the unconscious mind is like: “I can do anything”!
- Look at people, especially the one that drives you crazy, and learn and utilize that to become better and thank them for it.
“ Mindset is very much how we see the world because there is no such thing as reality. So how do we get that perception? It’s from our life experiences, and how we see the world. So, let’s say, Nancy, for example, you thought that everybody that interacts with you wants to work with you. Let’s say that was your belief. Let’s say it was a lie, but if you really believed it, you’re going to show up in a way that would be expectant of people to want to interact with you. And you know what? People would start doing that because you show up in that way. And if I went into the same meeting and my belief was nobody wants to do business with me, or we’re too small a company, then of course, people wouldn’t ask and I’d answer questions in a stumbling, bumbling way, not on purpose, but at an unconscious level. So yeah, mindset is how we perceive the world and the meanings we make out of it. And so, the sales mindset is the same, right? It’s how we perceive the world. And one of the elements you’ll be shocked to hear, Nancy, is our beliefs around money have a huge impact on how well we do in sales.” – UMAR
“Number one, you know who you are, and you know what you want so you get clarity on what you want to achieve in your sales career. Number two is you get confidence, like a massive amount of confidence that allows you, because your clients are going to borrow your confidence in your product and in yourself to go, I should make this decision. Then you need grit, so you do not give up. That allows you to keep on going, so when the person says no, three times in a row, you still handle the objection. You’re not trying to be pushy and force them, but you also don’t want them to miss out. And the last component is passion, which is more contagious than COVID. And if you can know your authentic self, you’ve got those four elements, clarity, confidence, grit, and passion. That’s how you reach your potential. And that’s what we teach, how to change your mindset. So, you figure that stuff out and it doubles your sales, not because we teach you any new techniques, is because you use the techniques you already know in a bolder, purposeful way. And I’m going to preach here just for a second, Nancy, that whatever you believe, let’s label it God. You will put here on earth to shine. And oftentimes when we’re babies, we shine so brightly. And then when life’s experiences, we get a sense of I’m not good enough, people don’t like me. And then we pull our punches, and we start living a smaller life. And that’s not why you were put here. The reason you need to shine, Nancy, is because there are people in your life, your colleagues, your family, your community, that once they see you shine, it permits them to do so as well. So, when we live smaller lives, we’re injuring people that we love around us.” – UMAR
“Fear is the biological imperative that when we’re about to do something new, something scary, fear comes up. And the reason fear comes up is not to stop you. When you’re in the mode of fear, your reaction time is the fastest. You are stronger. You don’t feel pain when you get injured. It’s all the things that you need to be successful. But in our lives, we’ve been trained when fear comes up, and go in the opposite direction. Don’t do that scary thing. Biology is giving us the tools we need to go do it.” – UMAR
Connect with Umar Hameed:
Try Our Proven, 3-Step System, Guaranteeing Accountability and Transparency that Drives RESULTS by clicking on this link: https://oneofakindsales.com/call-center-in-a-box/
Connect with Nancy Calabrese:
Voiceover: You’re listening to The Conversational Selling Podcast with Nancy Calabrese.
Nancy Calabrese: Hi, it’s Nancy Calabrese, and it’s time again for Conversational selling – the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today and it always starts with the human conversation. Today we’re speaking with Umar Hameed, CEO of No Limits Selling, a professional training and coaching company that specializes in improving the sales performance of realtors and other sales professionals. They use the latest neuroscience and neuro-linguistic programming insights to help sales reps break through their limitations and perform at a higher level. He is a keynote speaker at conferences in 14 countries and the author of three books, including Unleash Your Crazy Sexy Brain where he proves that when you take charge of your mindset, you can attack the world with unstoppable confidence. This is going to be a great conversation, Umar. Welcome to the show!
Umar Hameed: Hey Nancy, thanks for the invite. Yeah, I think it’s going to be an interesting conversation because ultimately at the end of the day, nothing happens till somebody sells something. And you can take that down all the way to a three-year-old that wants a cookie, trying to figure out which parent to go to and what’s the pitch I need to do to win this to closing a multi-billion-dollar deal. [1:38]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, yeah, that’s really cool. You know, I want to start with neuro-linguistic programming. I know it as NLP. Can you describe to the audience what that’s about?
Umar Hameed: So, NLP was developed in the 70s and is really an understanding what happens inside human beings at an unconscious level. So, we could look at someone that is amazing at closing sales. And when you ask them, how do you close a sale, they say, oh, that’s easy. You take this five-step process, and you will be able to close any sale you want. And we teach it to 100 salespeople. And only two of them are going to get similar results. Everybody else is going to get OK results. So, the question is, if the master is teaching us the step-by-step and not everybody’s getting it, there must be something happening at an unconscious level of the recipients of the training, and the master, what they’re doing, and what NLP does is it figures out, oh, this is what the master is doing. He’s making a picture of the outcome he wants in his head. He’s saying this to himself. So, we look at what’s happening underneath the hood of your brain. And then once we figure that out, we can teach you that process. And then suddenly, Nancy, you start closing at a much higher level because it’s about how to use your mindset in a different way. NLP decodes that and lets you replicate it. [3:01]
Nancy Calabrese: Wow. So, speaking of mindset, what is the sales mindset?
Umar Hameed: So, define mindset first. Mindset is very much how we see the world because there is no such thing as reality because if, take this example, you’ve got 40 FBI agents in a room at a lecture, and somebody comes in and accosts the trainer and leaves. Then they ask these trained FBI agents who came in and even FBI agents will have a different view of reality. He was this doll, no. It was shorter, it was this, it was that. So, once we realize that there is no reality, it’s just our perception of it. So how do we get that perception? It’s from our life’s experiences, how we see the world. So, let’s say, Nancy, for example, you thought that everybody that interacts with you wants to work with you. Let’s say that was your belief. Let’s say it was a lie, but you really believed it, you’re going to show up in a way that would be expectant of people to want to interact with you. And you know what? People would start doing that because you show up in that way. And if I went into the same meeting and my belief was nobody wants to do business with me, or we’re too small a company, then of course, people wouldn’t ask and I’d answer questions in a stumbling, bumbling way, not on purpose, but at an unconscious level. So yeah, mindset is how we perceive the world. [4:36]
Nancy Calabrese: Right.
Umar Hameed: and the meanings we make out of it. And so, the sales mindset is the same, right? It’s how we perceive the world. And one of the elements you’ll be shocked to hear, Nancy, is our beliefs around money have a huge impact on how well we do in sales. Because if we think there’s not enough money and things are too expensive, and I try and sell you some coaching services, Nancy, and you go, I’m not sure I can pay that. I’d be more predisposed to give you a discount immediately because I think, oh, well, I’m charging too much. And so, if somebody had a belief that money is plentiful and I deliver awesome value and you said to work with me is $10,000 a month, you would say it with congruity. And I’d kind of go, holy cow, that Nancy knows what she’s doing. I better sign up with her. [5:28]
Nancy Calabrese: Right. Right. Cool. And so why do so few salespeople reach their potential? What’s the issue there?
Umar Hameed: So, I think what’s going on is this, Nancy, I’ve been doing this since 2003. So, I’ve got a good install base of live experiences with people is that we have three faces, Nancy. There’s a face we show the outside world, and it could be a salesperson saying, I’m an amazing salesperson. And that is an illusion. Then we have something I call the delusion where the salesperson, this is who they think they are. And it could be, I showed the world I’m an amazing person, but inside it’s like, you’ve heard of the imposter syndrome. It’s almost a cliche, right? You could have a salesperson that really feels it. I’m not really that good. And there is a third space, which is the authentic self. And I think the reason most salespeople don’t reach their potential is they don’t ascertain or discover their true selves. Because when you discover your true self, something amazing happens. [6:38]
Nancy Calabrese: Right.
Umar Hameed: Number one, you know who you are, and you know what you want so you get clarity on what you want to achieve in your sales career. Number two is you get confidence, like a massive amount of confidence that allows you, because your clients are going to borrow your confidence in your product and in yourself to go, I should make this decision. Then you need grit, so you do not give up. That allows you to keep on going, so when the person says no, three times in a row, you still handle the objection. You’re not trying to be pushy and force them, but you also don’t want them to miss out. And the last component is passion, which is more contagious than COVID. And if you can know your authentic self, you’ve got those four elements, clarity, confidence, grit, and passion. That’s how you reach your potential. And that’s what we teach, how to change your mindset. So, you figure that stuff out and it doubles your sales, not because we teach you any new techniques, is that you use the techniques you already know in a bolder, purposeful way. And I’m going to preach here just for a second, Nancy, that, uh, whatever you believe, uh, let’s label it God. You will put here on earth to shine. And oftentimes when we’re babies, we shine so brightly. And then when life’s experiences, we get a sense of I’m not good enough, people don’t like me. And then we pull our punches, and we start living a smaller life. And that’s not why you were put here. The reason you need to shine, Nancy, is because there’s people in your life, your colleagues, your family, your community, that once they see you shine, it gives them permission to do so as well. So, when we live smaller lives, we’re injuring people that we love around us. [8:32]
Nancy Calabrese: Wow. How long does it take typically for somebody to, you know, change their mindset? Does it vary from person to person?
Umar Hameed: It varies. So, if you want to like deal with like say one issue, like within a month you can change that with the right guide. So, I’ll give you an example. Having a CEO, many CEOs have this, the need to be liked, because you know we’re human beings. And because of that need to be liked, they know what decision to make, but they hold off because they want to make sure no one gets their feelings hurt, or they think they’re a jerk, or they close a division. And changing something like that, you can do in 30 days consistently. Change that belief, it changes the behavior, and it allows the CEO to be a much better leader. And for those four things that I mentioned, clarity of purpose, confidence, grit, passion, 60 days, we’ve got a program in 60 days that you are going to get all those four things in space. It’s going to change your sales career, and it’s going to allow you to go out there and do phenomenal things. [9:43]
Nancy Calabrese: Well, amazing. But why do people keep making the same mistakes repeatedly?
Umar Hameed: So, I think there’s a couple of reasons for that. One reason is that they never learned a lesson from the event. So, humans are meaning making machines, and an event happens. So, let’s say the event happens is that we are working on this deal, we’re counting on it, our VP’s counting on it, more importantly, our spouse is counting on it, and at the last minute, the customer says, no, I’m not doing it. Now that can bum a salesperson out for an afternoon, a week, or the rest of the year. And so, what we do is the reason we don’t learn from those things is that when we hit failure, we want to move away from it. So, fear is like an interesting thing, right? Fear is the biological imperative that when we’re about to do something new, something scary, fear comes up. And the reason fear comes up is not to stop you. Nancy, when you’re in the mode of fear, your reaction time is the fastest. You are stronger. You don’t feel pain when you get injured. It’s all the things that you need to be successful. But in our lives, we’ve been trained when fear comes up, go in the opposite direction. Don’t do that scary thing. When…Biology is giving us the tools we need to go do it. So, it’s, you know, our childhoods. Basically, we can have the best parents in the world, but still, we could make meanings out of our childhood that allow us to live smaller lives. And you could have people that had the worst childhoods with trauma, and they come out of it like, I’ll show you. And so, it’s the meanings that we make that end up making the difference. And when you have more grit, more confidence, more passion, when things that go awry, the meanings we make are, I can overcome that easily. And when we don’t have that, then it’s like, oh, people figured out that, you know, I’m no good, or our offer isn’t that good. And can I give you a real-life example of one of these? [12:05]
Nancy Calabrese: Oh sure, yeah.
Umar Hameed: So, I was working with a company in Silicon Valley and the VP of Worldwide Sales, it said Umar, are my salespeople sell on price and not on value? And we talk about selling on value all the time, I’m not sure what’s going on. So, I go and interview the salespeople and it turns out what’s going on is this, is that they’re competing, they’re like a $40 million company and they’re competing with Intel and Motorola, which are billion-dollar companies. And they don’t trust the other people in their company. So, the engineering folks have promised to release products on a certain day, this is going to be out by February 1. And now it’s June 1 and it’s still not out. So like, I can trust those guys. And sometimes they build the wrong product that customers don’t want. And so, what we ascertain was it’s a trust issue. It’s not a sales issue. We went in, we got all the departments together and changed the beliefs around each other and what they’re trying to achieve. [13:04]
Nancy Calabrese: Right.
Umar Hameed: And two months later, I get a call from the VP saying: “Umar, we’re not only selling one license, but we’re selling multiple licenses and not at a discounted price, full tilt”. When I talk to the salespeople, what’s going on? It’s like, in the past, we’d come back, and we’d tell the folks, the customer needs to change this. And the first thing we’d hear back from people in other departments is that we don’t do that, and I can’t do that. The biggest change has been this. We come back with those requests and the person goes, hmm, how can we make that happen? It’s just changed the entire culture of the company. So, I think that’s what we need to do is we need human beings to be stronger, to get those critical elements, clarity, confidence, grit, passion. And then when we do it for the company, this is where you get a company that has speed and speed is a strategic advantage. It allows them to move faster. And when they make a mistake, nobody gets blamed. They just go, what do we need to change to get different results? And they do it. And that is my wish for companies, for sales teams, for you and for me. [14:13]
Nancy Calabrese: Right, cool. I mean, I know that you’re a certified hypnotist. So how does this help your clients?
Umar Hameed: So, what happens is this, is that sometimes our conscious mind gets in the way of us understanding what’s going on. So, I’ll give you a client story, it’s probably the best one to explain it. I was working with the CEO and on this coaching day, he basically says, Umar, I think what I want to do is I want to quit and go somewhere else, cause the board just isn’t getting what I’m trying to achieve and they’re not supporting me at all. And I go, hmm. So, I could ask him questions around it and he’s already got his mind made up. So, this brave CEO was willing to be going to an altered state. So, I take him into an altered state. And I go, let’s just call him Jack. Jack, four of the board members are not getting what you’re trying to communicate. And it could be that you’re not clear enough or they’re not understanding. Whoever one of those board members are, have them sit right in front of you and figure out what’s going on. And when you know what the situation is, what needs to be fixed? Lift your finger so I know it’s done. God lifts up his finger. Then we go to the second, third, fourth board member. And I had no idea how many board members didn’t understand. And then I bring him up out of the trance and I go, what was that like? He goes, oh my God, I know the mistake I was making. They’re not understanding this, this, and this. And the very next day they had a board meeting, which he went to. Then he calls me up after the board meeting and says, Umar, the board is 100% committed on this new direction that we’re doing. And two years later, they sold the company, and he got a massive buyout. And the point I’m trying to make here is I didn’t tell him what the situation was. I just got his conscious mind to get out of the way so his unconscious mind could look at the situation with no bias and find the solutions. Because oftentimes we have the answers, it’s just our conscious mind gets in the way and says, no, we don’t want to do that, that’s scary. And the unconscious mind is like, I can do anything. [16:16]
Nancy Calabrese: Right. Wow. How do you build a resilient sales mindset?
Umar Hameed: So, I think it’s that grit component is like so essential to doing that. And I’ve got a video that I just shot before this podcast that takes you through a five-step process on how to get more grit and it’s going to be published soon. So, if anybody wants to find out, just send me a direct message or an email. I’ll send it out to you on the house and it’ll show you how to be grittier. [16:52]
Nancy Calabrese: Right. Okay. Oh, that’s awesome. Hey, take advantage of that, everyone. And you know, we’re almost up with time. I want to let me ask you this. What do you believe in greatly that other people don’t necessarily agree with you on?
Umar Hameed: So, what I believe in wholeheartedly is this, is the people that are out there that vex us, the situations that are tragic or horrible, we turn away from those situations where the very messages we need to improve our lives are sitting there. So, for example, let’s say Nancy, you are someone that really, really irritates me. It’s like, oh, that fricking Nancy, I can’t stand her. Then when you ask yourself, what is the attribute that Nancy has that drives you crazy? And I would go that she is pushy. And then I asked myself, do I have a pushy gene in me? And the answer always is yes. The reason I don’t like it in Nancy because I have it in myself, and that’s a gift that I wouldn’t have gotten unless I looked at it that way. The reason there’s 8 billion people on this planet is that it’s hard to see other people, it’s hard, it’s easy to see other people and their flaws. It’s hard to see our own. So, there’s eight billion people that are there, is the people that irritate us, to figure out what’s their attribute and then go, oh my God, I have it too. Once you know you have it, you can minimize it. And the reverse is true. So, let’s say, Nancy, what I love about Nancy is that she is such a caring person. And the only reason I would admire it is that I’ve got some element of that myself. And I go, oh yeah, I do have caring but not as much as Nancy, then how do I amp up my caring? And so, people are a gift. So, look at people, especially the one that drives you crazy or situations that drive you crazy, and learn and utilize that to become better and thank them for it. [18:56]
Nancy Calabrese: That’s awesome. So how, how can my people find you?
Umar Hameed: The easiest way to find me is to go to my website at No Limits, that’s within an S, selling.com, or look up incredibly handsome dude on LinkedIn. Okay, you won’t find me there. Put in Umar Hameed, then you’ll find me.
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, you know, you are pretty good looking folks. You can’t see him, so check him out on LinkedIn. A huge thank you for sharing your expertise with all of us today. Umar, you’re a lot of fun. Everyone out there, take advantage of this gentleman’s, I want to say wisdom and humor. Humor is a big part of your life, isn’t it, Umar?
Umar Hameed: It is such a gift, isn’t it, in terms of just, we’re going to laugh at whatever tragedy happened, eventually want to laugh now, learn the lesson, laugh now and move on. [19:50]
Nancy Calabrese: Yep, I totally agree with you. So great conversation, folks. Reach out to Umar and make it an awesome sales day. [19:59]
by Nancy Calabrese | Mar 26, 2024 | Podcast
About Colleen Francis: Colleen Francis is an award-winning speaker, consultant and bestselling author who helps leading businesses achieve dramatic increases in their sales results. A successful sales leader for over 20 years, she understands the particular challenges of selling in today’s competitive market, and that business leaders can no longer rely on approaches to sales based on techniques from decades ago—or even last year. Colleen doesn’t believe in the old-school mentality that only 20% of a sales team hit their sales targets. She says, that in today’s modern selling era, we should expect 100% of the sales teams to hit 100% of the quota. Colleen works with business and sales leaders to synergize the sales DNA of the organization to seize market opportunities. Whether designing a strategy to target a new market or working with a team to improve its productivity, Colleen’s results have attracted clients such as Merck, Abbott, Merrill Lynch, Royal Bank, Dow, Adecco, Trend Micro, NCR, Chevron, and thousands of other global organizations. Her latest book, Right on the Money: New Principles for Bold Growth, provides readers with a proven, realistic game plan to redraw maps for sales and marketing in a topsy-turvy world. Check out the latest episode of our Conversational Selling podcast to learn more about Colleen.
In this episode, Nancy and Colleen discuss the following:
- Challenges of selling in today’s market
- Importance of organizational structure and flexibility in sales processes
- Effective sales questions: Open-ended and closed-ended questions
- The evolution of selling practices due to technological advancements
- The impact of COVID-19 on selling practices
- The evolution of prospecting methods and the importance of utilizing different marketing channels to reach prospects
Key Takeaways:
- We need to be open, we have to be easy to buy from and talk to.
- it’s not a question of whether you do virtual or whether you like it, it’s how your clients are operating and how can you best have a conversation with them in the mode of communication that they want.
- Prospecting is much easier as well than it ever used to be because we have so many other sources.
“I think one of the biggest challenges that we are facing in today’s market is this massive demographic shift and lack of workers. So, reductions in workforce because there aren’t people, we just aren’t as populous as we used to be, have two or three major effects on us as salespeople. One, it’s going to force companies to keep increasing their quotas because they’re going to have to grow and they’re not going to be able to find salespeople. So, we’re going to have to learn how to be more effective at what we do by combining, you know, virtual and in-person and all those kinds of things. Two, it puts pressure on our buyers because there are fewer of them, right? And they’re doing more work. They’re doing, they have more jobs. And so we’re gonna continue in this buying environment where it’s risky, people are scared to make decisions, they lack experience making decisions, they have 18 other jobs to do so they don’t have time to make decisions. So, I think that those, that one challenge in the marketplace is going to drive a bunch of challenges that we have as salespeople.” – COLLEEN
“So critical mass influence in my belief in selling is that we build the best client relationships when we have a very broad reach, high, low, you know, East-West, right? Critical mass influence is about building that so that people, so you’re easy to find, you’re easy to buy from, and everybody feels like they know you. So, it’s about using multiple types of media. So, whether it be social media, if we want to call it that, LinkedIn, your email, blogs, all those kinds of media, and reaching out to everybody that is related or potentially related to your customer. You know, Nancy, years ago, there was an ad on TV, if you remember, and I think it was for Clarell, and it was that I told two friends, and they told two friends, and so on and so on and so on and so on. Yeah, right. This is sort of the modern version of that because people are so important to the sales process, including people you will never meet. And so we have to get to our buyers, our influencers, our stakeholders. We must figure out a way to get our message to the people whom our buyers, influencers, and stakeholders might be listening to onto the platforms that they might be reading. And we also need to get everyone in our organization to do that. It’s not just a sales responsibility. It’s a marketing responsibility. It’s customer service, its operations, it’s finance.” – COLLEEN
“First of all, we have to have a combination of open-ended and closed-ended questions because that’s how a conversation flows naturally. I encourage salespeople to not be afraid of a closed-ended question because it will help you direct the conversation one way or the other depending on where it needs to be. We also must be comfortable being curious, asking the question, why? Why do you feel that way? Why are you saying that? What do you mean? Those kinds of questions so that we can get people talking about the real reason why they’re making those statements. The third thing is, from a tactical perspective, we have to ask short questions. So, I don’t know if you’ve ever noticed this, but salespeople will often fall into the habit, and I think this is a conversation breaker, where they ask the question, explain the question, answer the question, and then ask a whole entirely different question without taking a breath. And the poor prospect is, it is, it’s terrible. Multi-pronged questions, I call them. Whereas if you ask a short question, you’re going to get a long answer. And so, I think that’s another way to ask effective questions.” – COLLEEN
Connect with Colleen Francis:
Try Our Proven, 3-Step System, Guaranteeing Accountability and Transparency that Drives RESULTS by clicking on this link: https://oneofakindsales.com/call-center-in-a-box/
Connect with Nancy Calabrese:
Voiceover: You’re listening to The Conversational Selling Podcast with Nancy Calabrese.
Nancy Calabrese: Hi, it’s Nancy Calabrese, and it’s time again for Conversational selling – the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today and it always starts with the human conversation. Today we’re speaking with Colleen Francis, founder, and president of Engage Selling Solutions, helping organizations develop and review sales strategies to ensure they meet their business objectives. Colleen is driven by a passion for sales and results. A successful sales leader for over 20 years, she understands the challenges of selling in today’s market. And in addition, Colleen is an award-winning writer, consultant, and bestselling author of popular sales books, including the recent Right on the Money a recognized thought leader in sales leadership. She is an inductee in the professional speaker Hall of Fame and has been named the number one sales influencer to follow by LinkedIn. Well, it’s a kudos to you Colleen and welcome to the show. I’m so happy to have you.
Colleen Francis: I am really happy to be here. Thanks for inviting me. [1:26]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, it’s been a long time coming. Well, why don’t we start by sharing what you believe are the challenges of selling in today’s market.
Colleen Francis: We only have 20 minutes, right? So, I think one of the biggest challenges that we are facing in today’s market is this massive demographic shift and an absence of, let’s just call it that, or lack of workers. And so why do I say this? So, reductions in workforce because there aren’t people, you know, we just aren’t as populous as we used to be, have two or three major effects on us as salespeople. One, it’s going to force companies to keep increasing our quotas because they’re going to have to grow and they’re not going to be able to find salespeople. So, we’re going to have to learn how to be more effective at what we do by combining, you know, virtual and in-person and all those kinds of things. Two, it puts pressure on our buyers because there’s fewer of them, right? And they’re doing more work. They’re doing, they have more jobs. And so we’re gonna continue in this buying environment where it’s risky, people are scared to make decisions, they lack experience making decisions, they have 18 other jobs to do so they don’t have time to make decisions. So, I think that those, that one challenge in the marketplace is really going to drive a bunch of challenges that we have as salespeople. [3:04]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. So, talk about, I guess, what people have to do today to be successful in 24. Anything in particular that you would recommend that they start doing right away?
Colleen Francis: Yeah, so I think that they really need to be, well, they need to first be really easy to buy from, right? Easy to find, easy to buy from. I wrote in Right on the Money, I wrote that we’re in this selling environment where it’s sort of wait, hurry up. And it’s because buyers are spending a lot of time talking to others, researching on their own, trying to understand the lay of the land before they reach out to suppliers. And we know that Gartner tells us that 75% of all new sales are made, they’re started when the buyer actually does online research. So we have to be easy to find so that they know where we are. And we have to be really easy to buy from and talk to. We also need to be open. [4:09]
Nancy Calabrese: Wait a minute. What do you mean by easy to buy from?
Colleen Francis: It’s a good question. So, I think it’s two things. I think it’s the organizational structure, right? We can’t be cumbersome in terms of having contract hoops that people must run through and 12 legal processes and not be flexible, right? I think we must be open and willing to have conversations with people in multiple sources of media. So, it’s not just a phone call. It might have to be an email conversation or a LinkedIn conversation to start. I think we must also have organizations who are willing to work as a team. So, what we’re seeing is effective right now is where we have a group of stakeholders or buyers inside an organization and they’re coordinating their sales conversations with a group of sellers, managers, leaders, experts inside the selling organization. Of course, the salesperson is orchestrating all of that, so it adds a layer of complexity. But when we have these multiple contact points or multiple conversations going on, we have a much wider understanding of the value we bring. We have more stakeholders involved. They start trusting us more as an organization and its going to speed the sale forward. [5:34]
Nancy Calabrese: Wow. Why do you say, and I’ve read this, that you say best practices are dead? Why is that? Yeah.
Colleen Francis: No, yeah. I started to say to people that we need to focus on better practices. I think the reason I say that is because best practices sound like they’re timeless and can’t be changed. That’s the best practice, right? And so, it’s a little tongue in cheek because there’s always going to be some best practices, right? I suppose. We could always say we have to build rapport and people must like us and trust us. But the way we do that today with one set of customers might be very different than the way we do that in three months from now with a different set of customers. So, what I encourage sellers to do is look at what’s working in an opportunity or with an account or with someone in your office right now and say to yourself, should I be applying that as a change in my sales process? And then don’t get wedded to having to do it that way for the next year. [6:39]
Nancy Calabrese: Right, right. Well, I think what you’re saying is you always must reevaluate best practices. Yeah, and how often do you recommend that you do that?
Colleen Francis: Yes. Well, I honestly recommend that people evaluate individual best practices in sales, like the types of questions you might ask or the people you’re reaching out with, you know, on a quarterly basis. So, I would do, you know, a quarter in review and say what worked and what should I do more of and what didn’t work so well and why and how should I change that or eliminate it. [7:13]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, yeah, I agree. Now your recent book, Right on The Money, I’m curious what prompted you to write it, and what does it mean?
Colleen Francis: So interesting about this book is it was written and already to go in on January 1, 2020, let’s say. So, I wrote it through all of 2019. And I was inspired by a lot of the changes that were going on, you know, in 2018, 2019. And then of course, the world changed, especially the selling world in, you know, the first quarter of 2020. And I had to rewrite the whole book because the speed of change happened so much faster in 2020. So much of what I wrote about in 2019 wasn’t true anymore suddenly. And I got a firsthand look at what very successful sellers were doing to sell in that pandemic because my clients were all classified as essential services. So, they had no choice but to be at work and to be servicing. They were in the oil and gas industry, manufacturing sectors, agriculture. So, they had to make it work. They had to figure it. Nobody could just kind of sit back and say: “Hey, we’ll just wait this out”. Everybody had to find a way to make this work. And so, um, I reoriented the book, um, in, um, that year to be really focused on, uh, you know, what the next phase of selling is going to look like. And right on the money is really this balance between being customer centric or customer focused, and metrics are internal focus, like sales velocity focus. So, companies that focus too much on their own internal targets and make calls, make calls, make calls fail one way. Companies that over-rotate and take this attitude of, oh, the customer is always right, and they often fail for a different reason, and what we need is a balance. [9:15]
Nancy Calabrese: Right. Yeah, huh. You know, speaking of COVID and the pandemic and how it switched selling, there were so many people, I don’t know how many now, but in the early days that swore that they couldn’t sell, they must only sell face to face. Now I have spent my whole career selling virtually. What do you have to say about that?
Colleen Francis: Well, I had an interesting experience during COVID with a bunch of sellers who had, they were very experienced, let’s just say. Their manager called them the silver foxes. And they, when things shut down and they weren’t allowed to go on site to see their clients, or they weren’t allowed to come into the office, they literally crossed their arms and said, oh, when this thing clears up, we’ll go virtual. But other than that, we’re not doing anything. And you know they soon learned that wasn’t going to be any time soon. So, they had to learn how to use virtual selling. And then people would say to me, well, COVID is over. We can go out. We’re in Texas, right? Or we’re in Florida. We can go out. And then, you know, Texas gets a massive ice storm or supply chain, you know, happens, or people don’t go back to work, or offices don’t go back to work full-time. And so, you’ve got people all over the place working from home. And a lot of sellers who put there, you know, their stake in the ground realized, wow, if I want to have an effective meeting, I’m going to have to stay virtual or be hybrid because I’m not going to, you know, the buyer’s house where they’re working today. So, yeah. So, I’ve said, it’s not a question of whether you do virtual or whether you, or whether you like it, it’s how your clients are operating and how can you best have a conversation with them in the mode of communication that they want. [11:12]
Nancy Calabrese: True. I think you raise a good point. It’s about them, not about you. Yep. You have developed a concept of critical mass influence and how to use it successfully. Tell us about that.
Colleen Francis: So critical mass influence is, so my belief in selling is that we build the best client relationships when we have a very broad reach, high, low, you know, East-West, right? And critical mass influence is about building that so that people, so you’re easy to find, you’re easy to buy from, and everybody feels like they know you. So, it’s about using multiple types of media. So, whether it be social media, if we want to call it that, LinkedIn, your email, blogs, all those kinds of media, and reaching out to everybody that is related or potentially related to your customer. You know, Nancy, years ago, there was an ad on TV, if you remember, and I think it was for Clarell, and it was that I told two friends, and they told two friends and so on and so on and so on and so on. Yeah, right. This is sort of the modern version of that because people are so important to the sales process, including people you will never meet. And so we have to get to our buyers, our influencers, our stakeholders. We must figure out a way to get our message to the people who our buyers and influencers and stakeholders might be listening to onto the platforms that they might be reading. And we also need to get everyone in our organization doing that. It’s not just a sales responsibility. It’s a marketing responsibility. It’s customer service, its operations, it’s finance. I mean, everyone who has access to a computer can, can get on LinkedIn and share the company’s message, right? Um, and it could just be, it honestly could be Mary from accounting who posts a company, um, message on her own personal LinkedIn that causes another finance professional down the road to say: “Oh, wow, we need that tier”. [13:21]
Nancy Calabrese: Right. That’s right. You know, speaking about your comment, it would be easy to find how often do you recommend posting on LinkedIn and other social media sites?
Colleen Francis: Right? Ha ha ha. So, my formula, because I’m also really cautious, I don’t want salespeople on social media eight hours a day, right? So, my, no, we got to pick up the phone and call, right, eventually. So, I have a process called the tempo triad. I ask people to select three different media types. For most of my clients, it’s some combination of LinkedIn, maybe Facebook, book, or Instagram if they’re in a really visual type of product. For some people it is X or formerly known as Twitter or something else. Maybe it’s an email or a marketing message. And I asked them to do three things. One comment on something that one of your clients or associations is saying, so people see that you’re paying attention to them. Two, repost something that a client or an influencer or an association is doing again, so they see that: “Oh, Colleen’s paying attention to me”. And three, post something unique. So, it could be something that your marketing team has written or you or something about your product, but something unique. At a bare minimum, I like to see that done three times a week on all three of those platforms. [15:00]
Nancy Calabrese: Right. Okay. Huh. I saw on your website, you have a video, how to ask effective sales questions. Talk to us about that.
Colleen Francis: Oh, so many things we could be asking about. So, one thing I think it’s really effective is to, first of all, we have to have a combination of open-ended and closed-ended questions because that’s how a conversation flows naturally. So, I encourage salespeople to not be afraid of a closed-ended question because it will help you direct the conversation to one way or the other depending on where it needs to be. We also must be really comfortable being curious, asking the question, why? Why do you feel that way? Why are you saying that? What do you mean? Those kinds of questions so that we can get people talking about the real reason why they’re making those statements. Third thing is, from a tactical perspective, we have to ask short questions. So, I don’t know if you’ve ever noticed this, but salespeople will often fall into the habit, and I think this is a conversation breaker, where they ask the question, explain the question, answer the question, and then ask a whole entirely different question without taking a breath. And the poor prospect is, it is, it’s terrible. Multi-pronged questions, I call them. Whereas if you ask a short question, you’re going to get a long answer. And so, I think that’s another way to really ask effective questions. [16:36]
Nancy Calabrese: Oh, that’s pretty bad. Wow. You know what? Now I’m going to really pay attention to the questions people are asking me. I don’t let you know if I catch them. You know, I guess, has selling really changed all that much?
Colleen Francis: Ah, you raise a good question. I think there’s a number of things that are similar and some things that are different. I mean, obviously technology, right? When my dad was selling, he didn’t, I remember when a first beeper came to the house, right? It wasn’t even a pager, it just beeped. So, the advent of technology has, that’s really been the game changer and it’s done a couple of things. You could argue that what hasn’t changed is we still have to have built trust, we must ask questions, we have to meet buyers, right? We must engage in stakeholder alignment. All those things are the same and we’ve had to do that for decades. The tools in which we do those things, execute on those have changed. Some buyers prefer to use online sources. I was having a chat with one of my own clients on Friday afternoon via text. [17:52]
Nancy Calabrese: Okay.
Colleen Francis: We were negotiating, you know, we were talking through a six-figure contract, but it was the easiest thing because she was on a plane. She could text, but email would have been too slow. I couldn’t call her because she was literally waiting to take off. And so, I must be comfortable being able to have a professional conversation over text. Now that makes my life easier and it makes it harder because as a sales pro, I’ve got to be a master of all these tools. On the other hand, it makes it easier because I wouldn’t have gotten 15 minutes of her attention, you know, on a Friday afternoon if I had insisted on a face-to-face or a phone call. So, I think that that’s really critical. [18:32]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. Wow, yeah. You know, when you said about technology, when I first got into sales, there were no faxes and no computers. I don’t know how I did it or how we all survived, but we did, there was the phone, there was the phone. That’s interesting. It’s a good thing.
Colleen Francis: Yeah. And that’s hard because a lot of people will say, well, I don’t like that social media stuff. I’m like, well, I don’t care if you don’t like it or not. If your clients are there and you’re not there, then you’re invisible to them. Right. So prospecting is much easier as well than it ever used to be because we have so many other sources. We, I mean, you know, 30 years ago, prospecting to me was either cold calling, pure cold calling from the phone book or physical door knocking. I mean, you can’t really do a lot of physical door knocking these days. A lot of doors are locked. Phone books don’t exist. So, LinkedIn is kind of our phone book, but people aren’t answering their phones. I mean, there’s a whole lot of businesses that don’t even have main switchboards anymore. [19:38]
Nancy Calabrese: I get it. I get it. But you know, it’s perseverance. And to your point, you must try different marketing channels to get the attention of the prospect. Colleen, we are out of time. I cannot believe it. It went by so fast. How can my audience find you?
Colleen Francis: Yes. Well, true to form, I’m an easy person to find. So, you can find me on LinkedIn by Colleen Francis. You can find me on my website, EngagedSelling.com. You can find me on Facebook, on Twitter, on TikTok, on Instagram. Simply, I am all over the place. My doctor says to me, Colleen, I’m not even on social media, and I see you on social media. [20:21]
Nancy Calabrese: Ha ha. You’re all over the place, huh? All right, so people out there, don’t be shy. Take advantage of this lady’s expertise. She’s knowledgeable, but she’s also a lot of fun, Colleen, and I really, really enjoyed her conversation. And I hope we can do this again in the future. Would you come back?
Colleen Francis: Absolutely. We’re great fun.
Nancy Calabrese: Love it. So until we speak again, people make it a great sales day, make it a great Colleen day, and give her a call. See you next time. [20:59]
by Nancy Calabrese | Mar 22, 2024 | Podcast
About Tracy Beavers: Tracy Beavers is the founder of Tracy Beavers Coaching, where she helps business owners ditch the overwhelming burden of business ownership. She crafts a clear roadmap of action steps and creative solutions to get clients from where they are to where they want to be. Gain clarity. Gain focus. Keep your sanity. For 12 years, she worked as a claims investigator for an insurance company, which provided valuable insights into human behavior under stress. She gained expertise in navigating complex and painful situations, coaching individuals through challenges, and identifying their next steps. Combining this experience with her marketing education, she has transformed her passion into a business focused on helping people. Check out the latest episode of our Conversational Selling podcast to learn more about Tracy.
In this episode, Nancy and Tracy discuss the following:
- Exploring why entrepreneurs and individuals fear sales
- Tracy’s method of selling without explicitly selling
- The importance of building genuine connections and relationships
- Finding authenticity and ease in entrepreneurship
- The importance of community for entrepreneurs
Key Takeaways:
- Everybody is fearful of sales.
- Looking at their entire business structure, I can determine their needs.
- I believe in building a business with authenticity and with ease.
- We’ll never get started if we put too much pressure on ourselves out of the gate to have something perfect or all the bells and whistles with it.
“When you first start a business, or maybe you’re a year or so in, there is a lot of overwhelm that comes with it because you start the business with a passion for doing something. Let’s say it’s helping women with health and wellness, or like me, I’m a business and sales coach. Then you find yourself being the chief cook and bottle washer, learning the tech, building the website, building the courses, and spending all the plates and doing everything, which feels like a lot. And so, what I like to do with my clients is talk to them about their business, get a very solid look at the framework of it.” – TRACY
“Selling without selling is a style I created over my years of experience because I would have people come to me and ask me routinely, how are you so successful in sales? You know, how do you gain market share so easily? And the way I do this is through the selling without selling method. My approach is to take the sales out of the equation. I want my clients and students to take the word sell or sales completely out of their language, out of their brain, and park it. And then we’re going to show up as our best selves. We will look for opportunities to make true human connections with other humans who want to make a true connection. And then we’re going to see where the conversation leads. Because in sales, it’s not, not always about me. The next person I meet will want to buy something from me.Rather, my approach is the next person I meet I want to see where the relationship goes. They could be an ideal client for me, but they could also be my next best collaboration partner and open up, open, and introduce me to their entire audience. They could also be my next best referral source. ” – TRACY
“The biggest thing that I will say that I want everybody to remember and audience lean in when I say this being an entrepreneur is freaking hard. You cannot go it alone. It is a roller coaster of emotion. People that are, it doesn’t matter if you’re on day one, day five, or year 15, and you’re making $80 million a year. Everybody feels imposter syndrome creep in, everybody feels doubt, everybody feels afraid, and the people who aren’t willing to talk about it are just not telling you the truth. And so, what I highly recommend for everybody is to find a community of support, even if it’s a free community.” – TRACY
Connect with Tracy Beavers:
Try Our Proven, 3-Step System, Guaranteeing Accountability and Transparency that Drives RESULTS by clicking on this link: https://oneofakindsales.com/call-center-in-a-box/
Connect with Nancy Calabrese:
Voiceover: You’re listening to The Conversational Selling Podcast with Nancy Calabrese.
Nancy Calabrese: Hi, it’s Nancy Calabrese, and it’s time again for Conversational selling – the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today and it always starts with the human conversation. Today we’re speaking with Tracy Beaver’s CEO and founder of Tracy Beaver’s Coaching, where she helps business owners ditch the overwhelm of business ownership. With 20 year’s experience, Tracy has helped hundreds of entrepreneurs with everything from overcoming the fear of sales to growing their business visibly through organic marketing strategies. Tracy is a public speaker and a published author. She has been featured on top business podcasts and has been a regular contributor on one of her hometown’s premier TV shows. She is the creator of two online programs, Business Visibility Made Easy and Be a Confident Entrepreneur. Welcome to the show, Tracy. This is gonna be a fun discussion.
Tracy Beavers: Thanks for having me Nancy, I’m excited to be here. [1:23]
Nancy Calabrese: Oh, I’m so excited to have you. So, one thing that jumps out to me, as I said earlier, that you help business owners ditch the overwhelm of business ownership. What do you mean by that?
Tracy Beavers: Well, when you first start a business, or maybe you’re a year or so in, there is a lot of overwhelm that comes with it because you start the business with a passion for doing something. Let’s say it’s helping women with health and wellness, or like me, I’m a business and sales coach. And then you find yourself being the chief cook and bottle washer, learning the tech, building the website, building the courses and you’re having to spend all the plates and do all the things and it feel like a lot. And so, what I like to do with my clients is talk to them about their business, get a very solid look at the framework of it. What is their goal? What is their vision? What is the end game for them that they want to, what do they wanna do in the world? And then we backtrack and reverse engineer to what do we need to focus on now? What can wait? What can we put in their parking lot of things to execute when the time is right. Like, you know, you can’t come out of the gate as a business owner and, um, try to do all the things at one time because nothing’s going to get done well. And so, like, for example, for me, I’ve been in this space several years, and I’ve talked about and thought about having my own podcast for a long time, but its ha the timing hasn’t been right. And so that’s where that overwhelm can creep in. If I’m not careful, I could put a lot of pressure on myself to get that podcast out into the world. [3:07]
Nancy Calabrese: Right.
Tracy Beavers: But what I’ve got to do is figure out where in the business that makes sense to do. So just mapping out the priorities so that they can take it one step at a time.
Nancy Calabrese: Interesting. Why are so many entrepreneurs fearful of sales?
Tracy Beavers: Oh gosh, it’s not just entrepreneurs, it’s everybody. Everybody is fearful of sales. I mean, ask any little Girl Scout who loves to be in the Girl Scouts, but now all of a sudden, she’s gotta sell cookies. It’s intimidating to everybody. And I think, just in my experience, from having over 20 years in sales experience, primarily from corporate, and then in my practice, being able to help people overcome the fear of sales and find their path with sales. It feels icky. Unfortunately, there’s a lot of history around sales. Snake oil salesmen, used car salesmen, that stereotype doesn’t feel good. And we have all had experiences where someone has been overly aggressive with us in a sales capacity. And it did not feel good, and we did not like it, and we are afraid we’re going to come across the same way. [4:25]
Nancy Calabrese: Right.
Tracy Beavers: And we don’t want anybody to think badly of us. We don’t want to be judged. We don’t want to come across as aggressive or salesy or spammy. And so that’s where we stop. We’re like, you know, we may think we’re the best in the world at what we do, but when it comes to actually selling it and pitching it, it’s like, oh boy, what is everybody else going to think? You know? [4:46]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. Huh. Well, how do you sell without selling?
Tracy Beavers: Yes, that’s a style that I created over my years of experience because I would have people come to me and ask me routinely, how are you so successful in sales? You know, how do you gain market share so easily? And the way I do this is through the selling without selling method. And my approach is we take the sales out of the equation. I want my clients and students to take the word sell or sales just completely out of their language, out of their brain and park it. And then what we’re going to do is we are going to show up as our best selves. We are going to look for opportunities to be of service, make true human connections with other humans that want to make a true connection. And then we’re going to see where, where the conversation leads. Because in sales, it’s not, not always about me. The next person I meet is going to want to buy something from me. [5:50]
Nancy Calabrese: Right.
Tracy Beavers: Rather, my approach is the next person I meet, I want to see where the relationship goes. They could be an ideal client for me, but they could also be my next best collaboration partner and open up, open and introduce me into their entire audience. They could also be my next best referral source. Again, introducing me to people that do want my services, or that might introduce me to more people. And that’s how we become successful in sales. We lead with our heart, we focus on being of service, and if what you’ve got to sell or offer is in alignment with what that person is looking for, then the sale will automatically happen when they find out what you do and who you are, and that you are truly a kind, warm-hearted human being who’s not going to try to pounce on them the minute you find out they have a need. [6:48]
Nancy Calabrese: Right, no, I agree with you. So, I saw on your website, and I don’t remember what it was called, you start with begin with the end in mind, then create a roadmap and then stay the course for success. Can you elaborate on those points?
Tracy Beavers: Absolutely, it goes back to your first question of how do I eliminate overwhelm? And so We begin with the end of my meaning. Okay, Nancy What do you want to offer your audience? What do you want your paid offers to be? What do you want your business to look like? Do you want to have a podcast? Do you want to have your own Facebook group? Do you want to create a course or a group coaching program? Do you want to use? Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn, or do you just want to focus on one platform? And so, we kind of get those things mapped out of how do you want this thing to go? And keeping in mind what income do you want to make? You know, I have a lot of people that are like me, I started building my businesses alongside my full-time career because I had a full-time career that was well over six figures. And there was no way with our family that I could just walk away from that. and not make any money for a while. That wasn’t going to be fair to my husband and my children. And so, I help a lot of people do that. And so, one of the questions I ask them is, you know, what income are you looking to replace? And then we reverse engineer through and think, okay, if you’re trying to replace six figures a year, that probably isn’t going to happen in the first year out of the gate, but what could happen? What offers could we put together? [8:36]
Nancy Calabrese: Right.
Tracy Beavers: What marketing strategies do you need? And then we roadmap it. And I literally make a roadmap list when I work with my elite one-to-one clients. And you and I were, you know, if we, you, and I were in one-to-one coaching and we got off of a 45-minute session, I would say, okay, Nancy, I’m going to go in and update our notes. And I have a Google Doc and a Google folder where I keep all our work together. And on that Google Doc, I have road mapped out your entire business structure, so that I can see where some of the holes are. Like, do you have enough lead magnets? Do you have enough offers? What’s the pricing of those offers? And is that going to get you to the income you want? Do you have a podcast? Do we need to, all that stuff. And then after our session, I’m going to say, okay, Nancy, for the next two weeks until our next session, these are the four or five things I want you to focus on. You’re not gonna scroll off into any other direction. We’re going to focus on these things. And the other things we’re going to get to but that’s where the roadmap comes in handy. Because I don’t want you getting too far ahead of yourself and getting overwhelmed. [9:41]
Nancy Calabrese: Got it. How do you know? How do you know what to prioritize in a person’s roadmap?
Tracy Beavers: Great question. So looking at their entire business structure, I can determine and their needs. Like if they’re telling me I’m not making any money, okay, we’ve got to dive in and figure out some offers we can put together, some marketing we can put together to get some income coming in to get that pressure off of them. If they tell me, okay, Tracy, I have this idea for a course, I just went through a great course that teaches me how to build the course, but I don’t know how to create the pre-launch runway, the launch itself and the post-launch runway and have good results. And so what, what is the most emergent need for them? And then we, then we work from there. [10:34]
Nancy Calabrese: Right. Interesting. You know, how long in you on average does it take for a business to turn around?
Tracy Beavers: Tell me what you mean by turn around.
Nancy Calabrese: Well, with your coaching, right? When do you see most of your clients get the light bulb going off? You know, like that they’re totally aware of the changes that need to be made and they’re implementing them.
Tracy Beavers: For some of my clients, it happens immediately. Immediately meaning within two or three sessions of us working together, which I meet with my clients every other week for a four-month timeframe. Because I find that four-month timeframe is the sweet spot of, you know, two months is too short, six months feels a little too long. But it doesn’t take them four months to get to their goal. Some of my clients have. You know, like one of their goals was I want to increase revenue for my next launch and my next launch is in 30 days. And we worked together, and their next launch produced $15,000 more in sales than it did in the previous launch. Um, I have, it does vary. It varies upon and it varies because everybody’s business is different. Everyone’s ability to act fast and quickly to get the results is different. Um, you know, if I’m working with somebody who is absolutely an entrepreneur and that’s all they’re doing and they don’t have a full-time job, they’re going to be able to act quickly and implement faster versus someone who has a full-time job in a family and needs to move a little slower. And then also, if I’m working with someone who’s been in business for a few years and they have a bankroll of income saved that they can use for expenses and do some things like hire out some things to get it done faster or you know, get, you know, hire the help that we need to make this thing move faster. So the end, and in the end, I can’t promise anybody results because that’s up to the individual person. But what I can do is map out their priorities, give them the awesome ideas, the creative solutions that they’re looking for, the out of the box thinking. And then it’s up to them to execute. [12:52]
Nancy Calabrese: Wow. You’ve stated that business growth does not have to be a struggle. Can you expand on that?
Tracy Beavers: Yes, it doesn’t. I believe in building a business with authenticity and with ease. And what I mean by that is, you know, we think that some of the things we do in business have to be super fancy. That they have to have fireworks and sparklers attached to them and everything has to be over the top. And the best thing anybody’s ever seen in an online business. And that’s just not the truth. If we put too much pressure on ourselves out of the gate to have something perfect or to have all the bells and whistles with it, we’re never going to get started. And so, I help my clients find the ease in growing their business, primarily through that roadmap structure that I lead them through. And with me prioritizing, it brings a sense of calm where they feel like they can exhale and they’re like, okay, I’m going to focus on what Tracy has outlined for us. And the other thing I do for my clients that’s special is they have unlimited box or access to me in between our bi-weekly, our bi-monthly sessions. And what that allows them to do is also exhale and breathe. Because if we had a session today and you went in to execute on some of the things we talked about tomorrow, and you got stuck in how to question. [14:25]
Nancy Calabrese: Right.
Tracy Beavers: You don’t want to wait two weeks to talk to me. That’s not effective. That’s not effective coaching in my opinion. And so you could just simply hit the button on the Voxer app and say, okay, Tracy, we talked about, you know, executing this strategy. We talked about my creating two new lead magnets. Here are my ideas. I’m trying to name them, trying to get some graphics ready for them. I’m going to send you the graphics. I’m going to send you the wording I have so far. I need your feedback. And then, I look at it and I voxer you back immediately. Well, within 24 to 48 hours, if I’m traveling or, you know, something comes up, but most of the time it’s fairly immediately. And that allows you to have that comfort and guidance, you know, and not feel like you’re in this alone, wondering, am I creating something that nobody’s going to wanna buy or download? [15:18]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. You know, also in doing my research, you stated that you had to be honest the first year and building your online business was way more difficult than it looked from the outside. Why was that?
Tracy Beavers: Oh gosh, yes it was. So primarily because the online space is a completely different beast than anything I had ever been involved in. So, I have had businesses off and on, gosh, ever since, let me think, maybe in my 30s. And so, I’ve been an entrepreneur off and on for a long time. And then seven years ago, I decided to get really serious about it because I was fed up with corporate. And so, I hatched a plan to leave and I started building. And here I come in from a very successful marketing and sales career. Every business development role I had; I was very successful. I gained market share for companies like Crazy, built multi-million-dollar portfolios, had people coming to me all the time asking for advice. And I’m a highly educated, intelligent woman. And I thought, and much like you, I’m sure. We’re used to mastering things quickly and learning fast and producing. And I got into this online space, and I was like, what the heck is everybody talking? I felt like I needed a decoder ring, first of all, because what’s a funnel? What’s Kajabi? Oh my gosh, do I need a website? How do I build a website? What platform do I use? What’s a lead magnet? You know, what’s a sales funnel versus a list building funnel? [17:00]
Nancy Calabrese: Right.
Tracy Beavers: Do I need to run ads? How do I do that? I was just like; you’ve got to be kidding me. I felt like, I really was like, oh my gosh, I feel like I’m learning an entirely new language and skillset. And I was, because tech’s not my love language and in my 20-year career, I didn’t have to build a website. I didn’t have to, I could create something and record it, but I didn’t have to tuck it in somewhere for somebody else to access it, you know? I mean, it was just, what’s a landing page? I was like, what do you mean? What’s a landing page? They go, you have to build a landing page. I’m like, what is that? I don’t know. What’s that? So that’s how I was just like, oh my gosh. And then I thought, what have I gotten myself into? I was like, man, I just want to help people, but building this infrastructure in order to reach the people and be able to help them, that was a lot. [17:52]
Nancy Calabrese: What is that? Wow. Well, I can’t believe we’re up in time. What is the one takeaway you wanna leave the audience with?
Tracy Beavers: Oh, that’s such a good question. Let me think, because there’s so many things. The biggest thing that I will say that I want everybody to remember and audience lean in when I say this, being an entrepreneur is freaking hard. You cannot go it alone. It is a roller coaster of emotion. People that are, it doesn’t matter if you’re on day one or you’re on day fifth or year 15 and you’re making $80 million a year. Everybody feels imposter syndrome creep in, everybody feels doubt, everybody feels afraid, and the people that aren’t willing to talk about it, they’re just not telling you the truth. And so, what I highly recommend for everybody is to find a community of support, even if it’s a free community. My free Facebook group is a prime example of that. We have over 2000 entrepreneurs in there. It is free for you to come in and promote yourself anytime and post something that you need help with or something that you’re excited about and feel that community of love and support around you. When other people, when you say, my podcast downloads are in the toilet, somebody help me. And the podcast person will come and be like, yeah, let’s talk about it. Let’s have a coffee chat. How can I help you out? And so get into some communities where you don’t feel alone and know that it’s normal. And some days, I always say this at the end of every one of my live weekly trainings, some days everybody wants to buy what you’re selling and other days nobody can remember your name. [19:34]
Nancy Calabrese: Right.
Tracy Beavers: And so just don’t, just remember that’s totally normal and get into a community and don’t try to do this by yourself.
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, you know, being at the top is very lonely and you need somebody to, you know, you need a coach. And Tracy, you’re a great coach. How can my people find you?
Tracy Beavers: Yeah. You need a coach. For sure. Thank you for that, that’s so kind. So, they are welcome to connect with me: Tracybeavers.com is my website. I have a contact button there where they’re welcome to contact me, reach out by email. I’m easy to find on Facebook, I’m Tracy Lane Beavers. Connect with me as a friend, send me a DM, and then come join my free Facebook group. It’s called Be a Confident Entrepreneur, Get Visible and Grow Your Income. And you know, come join the party. Come join the party in the group. [20:29]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. Now what’s the name of the Facebook group again?
Tracy Beavers: It’s called be a confident entrepreneur, get visible and grow your income.
Nancy Calabrese: Love it. Folks, take advantage of all of Tracy’s expertise. I know that I’m going to join the Facebook group and I think that’s a wonderful gift that you’re offering to entrepreneurs. You just don’t want to go it alone. So, thank you for joining me Tracy and I hope that we’ll do this again in the future. And until we speak again and folks, until I have my next podcast, make it an awesome sales day. [21:15]
