by Nancy Calabrese | Oct 23, 2024 | Podcast
About Jordan Ledwein: Jordan Ledwein helps companies and sales teams improve efficiency and effectiveness through proven systems, processes, and technology. Widely known as The AI Sales Guy, Jordan is passionate about sharing his insights and proven best practices for AI- and automation-based selling to help sales professionals achieve new heights of success. After graduating from Clemson with a degree in Economics in 2017, Jordan took on a technical sales position with a manufacturing and engineering company. But almost 15 years after first listening to Sandler CDs in the back of his dad’s car, Jordan rejoined Sandler full-time at the beginning of 2022. His focus within Sandler shifted to AI & automation as he realized the potential impact it could have on their own business and their current clients. With the release of ChatGPT in late 2022, Jordan decided it was time to start sharing what he had learned about AI and how he was using it in his selling process. He started by creating a newsletter on LinkedIn, The AI Sales Guy, then moved on to international Sandler webinars & podcasts. He began creating content for Sandler and has now created a sales-focused AI Automation Agency – Sell Smarter. His passion is to help others learn how to combine a proven sales methodology, AI, and automation to help them become more efficient and successful. Check out the latest episode of our Conversational Selling podcast to learn more about Jordan.
In this episode, Nancy and Jordan discuss the following:
- Understanding commission-only sales
- Jordan Ledwein’s experience in using AI to enhance sales processes
- How AI tools, like Humantic and Clay, help personalize and scale sales efforts
- The importance of optimizing sales systems before integrating AI
- Misconceptions about AI’s role in sales – it assists but doesn’t replace human effort
- A case study showing AI improving productivity and quote acceptance rates
- The integration of Sandler methodology with AI platforms like HubSpot
Key Takeaways:
- People want AI to be the easy button, but instead, think of it as, “How can it make me twice as efficient?”.
- I think of AI that way, where it’s assisting what we’re doing, not replacing what we’re doing.
- What’s coming with Apple intelligence will probably be the most significant improvement we’ve seen with AI since chat GPTs were released.
- When it comes to building an AI-powered process, it doesn’t happen overnight.
“Ialways talk about one of my first experiences with AI—it was with just a Google Home in my apartment, allowing me to turn on my lights or do simple things around the house. It started on a very personal level, and I just enjoyed playing around with it. I used a few different sales tools early on, even before ChatGPT was released, that incorporated some AI into them. I was amazed by how much time they saved me and how they improved my workflow and efficiency. Then, when ChatGPT was released, probably the week after it came out, I realized this was where things were heading. I researched AI and learned how to use it in my sales process. I also began explaining it to people in my network on LinkedIn and to clients in different professional contexts, helping them understand its potential as well.” – JORDAN
“A couple of different ways, and I’ll do a webinar for Sandler. I don’t even know if I’ve mentioned this to you, Nancy, but I’ll be doing a webinar later in August of this year. I’m not sure if this will get up before or after that, but for Sandler and how we’re using AI to bridge the gap, that is what we’re saying between the methodology and the technology. The DISC portion is one way that we’re doing it. Another big way is through HubSpot, right? What we’re doing at SalesLift is building Sandler’s methodology into HubSpot in the form of tools, playbooks, process sequences and properties, and all these different things. So, that’s one thing we’re doing that’s been successful, and it’s exciting to see how that has grown over the last year or two. But we’re also adding in other tools, right? So, another tool we’re starting to use is Attention AI. Attention AI is another note-taker, similar to Fathom, Sybil, Otter, or whatever people use nowadays. But we’ve paid attention to that and customized it to Sandler’s methodology. So, it talks about the pains, investment criteria, and decision-making process we discussed on this call. And for those of you familiar with Sandler, those are the three pieces we look for to qualify for an opportunity. So, attention takes that exact transcript and pulls any of those pieces out of the call. Then, when we build a HubSpot that’s kind of Sandler optimized, it has the same properties as HubSpot. So, we can actually use attention, and it pushes that deal information right into HubSpot so that reps using both don’t even have to update their deals. These tools are doing it for them. It’s making Sandler in the flow of work is kind of the terminology that we’re using, but also just making it so the tools can easily help us apply this process and just really power everything.” – JORDAN
“I think the one thing I’ve been saying, and I think I can still say it for now, is that it’s still really early with AI. I know many people are a little hesitant about the idea, and I don’t blame them for that, honestly. I can be a little bit hesitant about the idea myself. But I’d rather understand how to use it, how not to use it, use it effectively, use it safely, use it ethically—all of those things. Just starting somewhere to learn how to use it is the best thing you can do. It could be ChatGPT or one of these simple AI programs that just help you create dinner recipes, create a procedure or document, or something like that. I mean, it doesn’t have to be that complex. But the better you understand how to use it, the more set up you will be for the future, both professionally and personally. So, just start somewhere.” – JORDAN
Connect with Jordan Ledwein:
Try Our Proven, 3-Step System, Guaranteeing Accountability and Transparency that Drives RESULTS by clicking on this link: https://oneofakindsales.com/call-center-in-a-box/
Connect with Nancy Calabrese:
Voiceover: You’re listening to The Conversational Selling Podcast with Nancy Calabrese.
Nancy Calabrese: Hi, it’s Nancy Calabrese, and it’s time again for Conversational selling – the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today. And it’s always starting with the human conversation. Today we’re speaking with Jordan Ledwein, a Sandler sales trainer and coach, as well as a co -founder at Sales Lift a sales technology enablement agency. He focuses on helping companies and sales teams improve their efficiency and effectiveness through proven systems, processes, and technology. He’s been at the forefront of integrating AI into sales, inspired by the launch of ChatGPT in late 2022. From his popular LinkedIn newsletter, the AI sales guide to global webinars and his new agency, Sell Smarter, Jordan’s mission is clear: Blend traditional sales tactics with next gen tech to help teams sell smarter. Welcome to the show, Jordan. I’m so excited to have you here.
Jordan Ledwein: Hey, Nancy. Yeah, thanks for having me on. I’ve been looking forward to this and diving into this conversation. I think we’ll have a lot of fun, especially with your focus on sales and marketing and how all this kind of plays together here. [1:41]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, really. And so, for everyone out there, I saw Jordan speak at the Sandler Summit this past year and what he has shared with the audience there is eye -opening. So, look, it’s all about AI these days. Why is that?
Jordan Ledwein: You know, I think it’s an exciting topic. think there’s a lot of curiosity around it. Everyone’s still trying to figure out what’s going on. you know, with that, there’s a lot of cool things happening. There’s a lot of misconceptions and ever in between. I think the world’s kind of just trying to figure it all out and figure out, you know, how does this apply in what I’m doing, whether it’s in a personal or professional setting. And I think that there’s a lot of companies who have been able to kind of use some of this new technology to do some pretty creative some pretty creative things. it’s been fun to keep up with, but I do still think it’s still early. So, there’s plenty left to see happen and unfold in front of us. So I’m excited to see what that looks like. [2:41]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. How did you get involved with it?
Jordan Ledwein: You know, it’s funny. I always talk about one of my first experiences with AI was with just a Google Home and having it in my apartment and being able to turn on my lights with it or just do simple things around my house. So, it was on a very just personal setting. I just enjoyed playing around with it and used a couple of different sales tools early on. Even before chat, GPT was released that incorporated some AI into it and was just amazed with how they saved me time and how they just improve my workflow and what I was doing from an efficiency standpoint. And then when I saw Chat GPT get released, I think it was probably the week after it came out, I just really realized this is where it’s going. And I kind of went all in on the AI front and really started to understand and create ways to use AI in my own sales process and really just tried to explain that to the people in my network on LinkedIn and our clients in different contexts I have professionally to help them kind of understand it as well. [3:44]
Nancy Calabrese: Right. Wow. So how do you apply AI to sales?
Jordan Ledwein: The million-dollar question. You know, it’s funny because I have people come up to me after I give a talk and they say, you know, Jordan, how do I do this? Or where do I start is usually the first question. Where do I start? And people aren’t going to like this. But my answer is typically I have no idea. Not for you specifically, because the problem is there’s not a silver bullet or a one size fits all solution. think it gets very specific to each company because we’re all selling different things. We all have different customers. We all have different companies that we’re working with. So with the amount of AI applications out there and AI software and all of that, it can get very, very niched down to where you may use one tool and it saves you a ton of time, but the company right next to you uses a different one and it saves them a ton of time. I think a lot of it just comes down to really understanding, OK, where am I spending maybe an excessive amount of time or energy in my current sales process, what’s taking up my time, and where can I start to apply AI or even just other automation or general technology to help that process? And that’s what I’m kind of trying to get across is you can apply any AI tool to your process, but if your process isn’t built to be giving good results, then you’re just going to get poor results faster. Right, so you got to build the process and then figure out how to use AI and other technology to really make it as efficient as possible. [5:18]
Nancy Calabrese: Okay. So can you give us an example? For instance, AI and identifying maybe DISC profiles, any or another example that might make sense to the audience.
Jordan Ledwein: Yeah, yeah, happy to. So, I think there’s a lot for those of us in the Sandler world and in the sales world, is something we use all the time, right? Similar to Myers -Briggs for those who are unfamiliar with it but understanding what’s the personality or communication style of someone else. And from a Sandler perspective, we’ve tried to that for 40 or 50 years. And we’ve had to do that by talking and understanding and saying, do they fit into this category or that category or what traits or tendencies do they show? And you can figure that out eventually, but it takes some practice and some and now there are AI tools available like Humantic AI and even a couple others in that category that will actually predict someone’s personality style from LinkedIn. And just give you an idea. And it might not be perfect yet. I think it’s getting closer. But I think it helps us apply some of this methodology. Another one is in the lead gen front. There’s a tool called Clay that’s making a ton of noise just the functionality and features that it has to incorporate AI right into a process. And Clay is essentially to break it down as simplistically as possible. It’s almost like Excel, but you can power it with AI and integrate a ton of different things into it. So, you can quickly look through a list of 50 or 100 people and see if it fits your ideal client profile or use their LinkedIn summary to create a one sentence opener or a lot of different things and you can do this at scale to where you can have a one sentence opener for an email for 50 or 100 people in a matter of a couple of minutes. So, you can do personalization at scale. And there’s a lot of different things like that that can be applied in lot of different ways, even as simple as some of these AI note takers that people are adding to calls. I talk about those a lot just because of the impact it made on my sales process. I I’m saving hundreds of hours, if not more, a year just by that one category of tools. So, I think you just got to figure out what are you doing, what are you doing a lot, and where can AI really be applied here. [7:38]
Nancy Calabrese: Wow. Now what are you said earlier there were misconceptions. What are some of the misconceptions.
Jordan Ledwein: Yeah, no, that’s a question. think there’s a lot of different types out there, but I think we’re all learning a lot about it as time goes on, right? So, things that we thought weren’t true six months ago, we’re finding out are today. So, it’s very fluid. I think that people want AI to be the easy button, right? Or the, hey, let me just let the AI do it and I can kind of sit back and relax or go on vacation or whatever it might be that they’re doing. But I think instead of thinking about from that perspective, I like to think of it as how can it make me twice as efficient, right? So, this hour I’m spending, instead of doing five emails or five whatever, I can do 10. Or instead of spending two hours doing this, I can spend one hour doing it. And I think it’s about how do we make ourselves as efficient as possible? And it might not be that it completely does this task for us, but it just makes it that much easier to do. So, I think of it that way to where it’s assisting what we’re doing, not replacing what we’re doing. [8:48]
Nancy Calabrese: Wow. Is there a story that the audience would find interesting as it relates to your experience with AI?
Jordan Ledwein: Yeah, there’s probably a couple of different ones. But I think one that people would find quite interesting is that it doesn’t happen overnight. It happens one tool at a time. And so, when it comes to building an AI -powered process, typically, once you get to the end and you’re like, OK, this is where I want to be, when you look back, it’s not like you can say, this is when it happened, or that’s when it happened. I think it just happens gradually or over time. One of the companies that we’re building some different tools and processes for, one of them is HubSpot. They kind of started from nothing. It was a $15 million company in the construction industry. And they’re running mainly on Excel and email and very manual processes. And so, when we were able to just go and install something as simple as HubSpot and some of the tools that HubSpot has, and for those of you who are unfamiliar to a CRM platform, as well as a lot of different things, but it helped them get their quotes out. They said 40 % faster. And just because of how much easier it was to sign their quotes through this process, they said they probably had 20 % higher acceptance of quotes or signing of quotes than before they had these systems, right? And that’s not even talking about AI. That’s really just simple technology and just making the process easier, not only for the company, but also for the clients that you’re working with make it easier for them to buy your products or services. That’s I think really what it’s about at end of the day. [10:30]
Nancy Calabrese: Wow. You know, I want to go back to AI and Sandler. Any specific, we talked about DISc, but how else do you apply AI to Sandler methodology?
Jordan Ledwein: Yeah, good question. A couple of different ways, and I’ll actually be doing a webinar for Sandler. don’t even know if I’ve mentioned this to you, Nancy, but I’ll be doing a webinar later in August of this year. I’m not sure if this will get up before or after that, but for Sandler and how we’re using AI to kind of bridge the gap is what we’re saying between the methodology and the technology. The DISC portion is one way that we’re doing it. Another big way is through HubSpot, right? What we’re doing at SalesLift, a lot of that is building Sandler’s methodology into HubSpot in the form of tools, in the form of playbooks, in the form of processes and sequences and properties and all these different things. So that’s one thing that we’re doing that’s been successful and it’s exciting to see how that has grown over the last year or two. But we’re also adding in other tools, right? So, another tool is Attention AI that we’re starting to use. And Attention AI is another note taker similar to Fathom or Sybil or Otter or whatever it is that people are using nowadays. But we’ve taken attention and customized that to Sandler’s methodology. So, it talks about what are the pains, the investment criteria, and the decision-making process that we talked about on this call. And for those of you who are familiar with Sandler, those are the three pieces that we look for to qualify an opportunity. So, what attention does is it actually takes that exact transcript it pulls out any of those pieces out of the call. And then when we build a HubSpot that’s kind of Sandler optimized, it has those same exact properties in HubSpot. So, we can actually use attention. And it pushes that deal information right into HubSpot so that reps that are using both don’t even have to actually update their deals. These tools are doing it for them. it’s making Sandler in the flow of work is kind of the terminology that we’re using, but also just making it so. The tools can easily help us apply this process and just really power everything. [12:48]
Nancy Calabrese: Well, so is the, I guess integration with Sandler and HubSpot, is that live? And if so, how do you access that? Because I have HubSpot.
Jordan Ledwein: Yeah, Yeah, good question. So SalesLift, what we do there is that integration essentially, right? So, we have kind of templated versions of HubSpot that we can implement for companies that are some of the basic tools and things that we talk about at Sandler. But a lot of what we also do is more of the custom implementations of HubSpot for companies. Some of them are new to HubSpot. Some of them have had HubSpot for a while and they just feel like they could be getting more out of the platform because it’s hard with a tool like HubSpot to really feel like you understand it because there’s so much you can do with it. It’s growing every day too. So, we kind of take it and what we do is we help a company essentially wireframe and build out their sales process. So, what process do you use to take someone from a new lead all the way to a closed deal? And then what are the steps in that process? And we help companies build that together with some of our sales expertise and background as well as knowledge on HubSpot. And then we can help create reports and dashboards. So, something as simple as creating a property that says lead source. And then you start to track all the deals that you’re getting by the lead source. And then at the end of the year, you can say, hey, I got 15 new deals from lead source A, but lead source B, I only got five new deals. Maybe I should spend more time and money on resource A or lead source A. So, you can really start to make strategic decisions about it your sales process becomes that much more effective and easier to follow when it’s in the technology that you’re using. So that’s some of the stuff that we’re doing. And if anyone has more questions about that, they’re more than welcome to reach out to me via LinkedIn or email or whatever makes sense. [14:41]
Nancy Calabrese: Sure. Tell us about Sell Smarter.
Jordan Ledwein: Yeah, so sell smarter is kind of the brand really that ties together sales lift and in Sandler. And that’s where I focus a lot of my stuff on like the AI sales guy and different things there. And it’s it’s more of a brand than anything that I I’m just trying to figure out how to how to take this concept of AI and really break it down and simplify it. And I think it’s it’s a linkage between the technology that we’re using at, you know, sales lift that we’re seeing in the world today with AI, as well as kind of the psychology of sales and just humans in general. What’s the gap between those and how do we connect those two to understand? How do people buy? How should we sell? Then how can we use technology to help us accomplish those things? So that’s a lot of just the newsletters I put out on a regular basis and the content that I create and the talks that I do and the different things there to just kind of try and help people understand what’s going on currently with AI, as well as learn myself, you know, what’s on the cutting edge so I can stay there and help others get there. [15:52]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, so how do we access your newsletter?
Jordan Ledwein: So, if you go on LinkedIn, that’s a great way to find me and see kind of the stuff that I put out. You can also go to theaisalesguide .com and that’ll redirect you to a bunch of different links that I put together. And I think the top one on that page is my LinkedIn newsletter. So that’s a great place to go and kind of see my newsletter or webinars I’ve done or podcasts I’m going to do and different things there. [16:19]
Nancy Calabrese: Right. Huh. So, tell me something that you believe is true that almost nobody agrees with you on.
Jordan Ledwein: This could be an interesting one. I think, and this is going to be a prediction, so I might come back and recant this in two months. I think what’s coming with Apple intelligence is going to be probably the biggest improvement we’ve seen with AI since chat GPTs released. And I say that because I think it’s going to make it that much more accessible for the average and I think that’s a lot about, or a lot of what this is about is just accessibility, right? AI has been around for 10 or 20 years or more, right? But what chat GPT did was made it more accessible for the average person, right? And I think with Apple and iOS 18 and the releases they’re planning with Siri, they’re just making chat GPT and a more powerful version of Siri that much more accessible, right? And so we’re talking about simple things, complex things to where you could get a text from a family member that says, hey, my flight’s landing at this time. And what they’re saying Siri’s going to be able to do is you can just say, hey, Siri, what time is my brother landing? And it’s going to go and search the text from your brother. It’s going to take the flight information and look it up online. You’re going to say, hey, is it early, on time, delayed? And it’s going to send you the flight information. Simple things like that, but just making things that much easier for us to accomplish. [17:54]
Nancy Calabrese: Right. So, are we living in the world of the Jetsons?
Jordan Ledwein: Without watching all of the episodes required to know the answer or not, I’d say maybe. I’d say maybe. We’re getting closer, that’s for sure. I think a lot of the things that were probably portrayed on that show, we’ve already had actually for a few years, and we could get in the next couple of years. But what I will say is it’s happening quickly. [18:20]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, the only thing that we don’t have are the flying cars.
Jordan Ledwein: Yeah, I’m not going to make a prediction on when that’s happening, but I’m not going to hold my breath on that either. [18:31]
Nancy Calabrese: No, no, no, no, I’ll take my time. So, look, this has just been fascinating. And I told you it would be and that we would go with the flow. I guess two questions. What is the one takeaway you want to leave the audience with?
Jordan Ledwein: I think the one thing I’ve been saying, and I think I can still say it for now, is that it’s still really early with AI. And I know a lot of people are a little bit hesitant to the idea. And I don’t blame them for that, honestly. I can be a little bit hesitant to the idea myself. But I’d rather understand how to use it. And I can understand how not to use it, use it effectively, use it safely, use it ethically, all of those things. But I think just starting somewhere to learn how to use it is the best thing that you can do. It could be ChatGPT or one of these simple AI programs to where it’s just helping you create recipes for dinner or create a procedure or document or something like that. mean, it doesn’t have to be that complex. But I think the better you understand how to use it, the more set up you’re going to be for the future, both professionally and personally. So just start somewhere. [19:43]
Nancy Calabrese: Well, yeah, I guess that’s really great advice. Just start, do something about it. Last question. I know you mentioned this before, but let’s just repeat it. How can my people find you?
Jordan Ledwein: Yeah, so again, you can connect with me on LinkedIn. Pretty active on there. I promise I’ll get back to you if you send me a message. It just might not be too immediate because I can get little bogged down. But you can also reach out to me via my email, which is Jordan Ledwein. It’s at jordan.ledwine@sandler com. Like Adam Sandler, completely unrelated though. [20:23]
Nancy Calabrese: Right.
Jordan Ledwein: So LinkedIn or that resource would probably be a good way to find. [20:27]
Nancy Calabrese: Awesome. Folks, take advantage of his knowledge because that’s the way of the world. That’s gonna be the future in everything that we do. And Jordan, thank you so much for spending some time with us today. I know I learned a lot and I’m gonna talk to you about a couple of things you recommended. People, again, reach out to Jordan. He’s a wealth of knowledge for the future. And until we see you again or you hear us again, have an awesome sales day and do something with AI. We’ll see you next time. [21:09]
by Nancy Calabrese | Oct 4, 2024 | Podcast
About Doug C. Brown: Doug C. Brown is the CEO of CEO Sales Strategies and a Sales Revenue and Profit Growth Expert. He has led client award-winning and high-performance teams as well as pioneered profitable development programs for companies. He has advised companies such as Intuit, CBS Television, Procter & Gamble, Enterprise Rent-A-Car, Nationwide, Embassy Suites, Inc. 500 to 5000 companies, and thousands of other businesses and entrepreneurs. As an independent division head, Doug created, trained, and presented high-impact, results-oriented web seminars for prospects of Tony Robbins and Chet Holmes. Doug increased their division sales by 864% and close rate by 62% in just six months. Today, he helps companies and individuals increase their sales by incorporating sales revenue and profit growth strategies used by top 1% performers through the Top 1% Academy, Sales Revenue, and Profit Growth Masterminds. He also specializes in creating commission-only sales teams and advises companies on how to properly prepare for a high-performing sales team so they can attract and retain elite sales producers. Check out the latest episode of our Conversational Selling podcast to learn more about Doug.
In this episode, Nancy and Doug discuss the following:
- Understanding commission-only sales
- Optimizing sales strategies
- Doug’s experience in revolutionizing seminars for Tony Robbins and Chet Holmes
- How does someone become a 1 % earner
- The definition and importance of sales optimization
- Working techniques to close the sale
- Why “Maybies” are the great start of sales
Key Takeaways:
- Optimization is taking a look at everything that you’re doing and then asking two questions: How do I make it more effective? How do I make it more efficient?
- There are no bad clients, there are bad sales and buying decisions that turn into bad clients.
- If you make mistakes, don’t beat yourself up for it because multi-billionaires who are selling make mistakes too.
“I became a 1% earner firstly, through declaring and deciding that that’s what’s going to be. It’s a mental game in that regard. A lot of people talk about wanting to become a 1% earner, they want to double their sales, but it’s just an idea. It’s not a committed idea. Firstly, it requires that commitment and, quite frankly, one’s now asking to be in the top 1% of earners in the world. You know, that’s a commitment, and it takes time, energy, a lot of studying, and a lot of practice—and frankly, money, right? Because we’ve got to, we must be investing in things and getting around people who are in the 1% and learning what they’re doing and how they’re doing it. You know, fortunately for us, we train on that. So, you know, somebody comes here, obviously, they’ll learn that. But it’s still about getting around, you know, and I still do the same thing today, Nancy. I mean, I search out people that I feel a little uncomfortable being around because of their place in life, right?” – DOUG
“So, the conversation of selling is really about having a conversion conversation, and I’ll explain what that is versus having a sales conversation, right? Conversion conversations are really doing three things. First, they’re boosting rapport continuously. So, you know, we’re working on trust, like, and respect. A little luck sometimes doesn’t hurt, but it’s really about promoting those three. Second, it’s constantly moving the conversation in the direction of the business return on investment or personal return on investment that the potential buyer is always looking for. I can expand upon that. And third, we’re always creating what we call “yes states.” When we move from step to step in the buyer’s mind, they’re thinking, “Yes, this makes sense,” “Yes, wow,” or “I didn’t know that that’s good.” You want to constantly create a state of yes throughout the process. Now, on business and personal returns, people buy for different reasons, but they all fall into two categories: What is my business return on investment? What is my personal return on investment? When we really understand that ideal client profile and the ideal buyer persona—their motivations, what they want, need, feel, fear, and value—we can construct our conversation to be more like what we’re doing right now: just having a conversation. It’s not about taking them step by step, like, “Well, hey, we built rapport here. Next step, let’s do a discovery session. Next step, let’s…” and so on. That’s a sales conversation. If you do conversational conversion the right way, in most cases, you never even do a presentation. They never ask for it.” – DOUG
“So, the other thing I wanted to say about that, Nancy, is if they’re getting a “maybe,” I would suggest that through their conversational conversion, they haven’t been qualifying or disqualifying. When we’re thinking about creating these yes states, if we’re creating these yes states, but they’re turning out to be “nos,” it’s like your radar goes up as the selling entity. It might be time for you to disengage or at least qualify why. A lot of times, the “maybes” will come at the end because they’re thinking the same thing you are: “I’m really not sure if this will work, but we’re trying to get it to a sale.” And that’s where the apprehension comes up, right? As the seller, we would be much better off going—and we do teach this—if you are not the right fit for this, you gracefully disengage and find out who the right fit is. It goes a long way versus just trying to push the sale. Because there are no bad clients, but there are bad sales and buying decisions that turn into bad clients.” – DOUG
Connect with Doug C. Brown:
Try Our Proven, 3-Step System, Guaranteeing Accountability and Transparency that Drives RESULTS by clicking on this link: https://oneofakindsales.com/call-center-in-a-box/
Connect with Nancy Calabrese:
Voiceover: You’re listening to The Conversational Selling Podcast with Nancy Calabrese.
Nancy Calabrese: Hi, it’s Nancy Calabrese, and it’s time again for Conversational selling – the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today. And it always starts with the human conversation. Today we’re speaking with Doug C. Brown, CEO of Sales Strategies and a sales revenue and profit growth expert. With a proven track record in transforming sales outcomes, Doug’s career highlights include his tenure as an independent division head, where he revolutionized web seminars for Tony Robbins and Chet Holmes, boosting division sales by an impressive 864 % and increasing the close rate by 62 % in just six months. Doug empowers companies and individuals to achieve remarkable sales results. His impact is tangible as evidenced by clients seeing 3 million in new sales within five weeks through optimized sales channels and conversational selling techniques. You are a superstar, Doug. Welcome to the show.
Doug C. Brown: Well, thank you and thanks for having me here. [1:28]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, I can’t wait to dive in. So, I read somewhere that you specialize in commission only sales teams. Why is that?
Doug C. Brown: Well, because everybody selling is commission only, right? So, if we focus on the commissions and, you know, will we help people to solve a problem or to gain a better future and we are focusing on commissions, you know, we’re not sitting back and waiting, you know, for that big base salary or whatever, right? So that’s one reason. The other thing is that most people who are entrepreneurial or owners really like the idea of commission only salespeople because they don’t have to outlay the expense upfront and so therefore, they’re minimizing their risk. [2:23]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. What about draw versus commission?
Doug C. Brown: Well, draws okay, you know, but you know, we prefer to have people who are already, you know, don’t need the money, so to speak, right. So, they’re, you know, usually on the drawer, it’s usually something that is because people are seeking some type of cash. I’m looking for that full entrepreneurial person who says, you know, I can get up, I can wake up, I can make money, I can help, and I can sell and so to me, that’s kind of the truest entrepreneur. As an owner, you don’t get paid unless you produce something, right? [3:04]
Nancy Calabrese: I totally agree with you. You know, but my experience is it’s really hard to find commission only salespeople. Has that been your experience?
Doug C. Brown: It depends on what we’re selling. And it hasn’t really been my experience because it’s in how you go after anything advertising for them, right? So, there’s a certain person that has a certain profile, if you will, in buying persona that’s very comfortable with that. So, we target that. [3:40]
Nancy Calabrese: Okay. So, listen, I mean, how did you revolutionize seminars for Tony Robbins and Chet Holmes? I mean, how did you get those numbers?
Doug C. Brown: Well, when I got there, what really, it’s, it’s about optimization and segmentation, right? So, when I got there, I ran all the numbers that they had for the last two years. And I looked at who was buying, who wasn’t buying, why they were buying, why they weren’t buying. And then what I did is two things. One, I separated the right buyers in the right rooms with the right trainers and two. I then trained my team, you know, in the teams, I should say, you know, four days a week, and we continue to train regardless of whether or not they were good, great, amazing, or needed, you know, propping up. So, the two facets of that one, bringing, you know, the skill sets up and two, making sure the systems and optimization were in place. That’s really how we kind of brought it up and we tested, I tested everything. You know, I even tested taking Tony Robbins and Chet Holmes out of the presentation and actually conversion went up. So yeah, you know, that was surprising to me because when I originally looked at the presentation, they had about four or five slides on both, you know, on them, you know, cause they both have huge credibility and so, then I was like, you know what, it’s you know, just in selling, right? It’s always what’s in it for the receiver, not what’s in it for the presenter, so to speak, or the seller, right? Because everybody’s interested in their own. So, I was like, you know, I’ll pull it right out of the presentation and conversion went up and they, you know, then they told me, hey, we need something in there. So, I gave them like, you know, a half a slide. Conversion, you know, improve. I mean, they, you know, I mean, when you go from having your whole team go from 17 .8 % to 43 .2 % on the close, they weren’t going to argue with that. So that was helpful. [5:55]
Nancy Calabrese: Right, all. Wow. Really interesting. So how does someone become a 1 % earner?
Doug C. Brown: Firstly, through declaring and deciding that that’s what’s going to be. It’s a mental game in that regard. A lot of people talk about they want to become a 1 % earner, they want to double their sales, but it’s just an idea. It’s not a committed idea. Firstly, it requires that commitment and quite frankly, one’s now asking to be in the top 1 % of earners in the world you know, that’s a commitment and it takes time, energy, and a lot of studying and a lot of practice and frankly money, right? Because we’ve got to, we must be investing in things and getting around people who are in the 1 % and learning what they’re doing and how they’re doing it. You know, fortunately for us, we train on that. So, you know, somebody comes here, obviously they’ll learn that. But it’s still about getting around, you know, and I still do the same thing, Nancy, today. I mean, I search out people that I feel a little uncomfortable being around because of their place in life, right? [7:09]
Nancy Calabrese: Really? Okay. And I said, really? So how do you even identify the one percenters?
Doug C. Brown: Well, so firstly, you can figure it out by what they’re making. I mean, that’s one capacity, right? I mean, if they’re making that million dollar and up type income. And then, you know, there’s places that one percenter hangs out, right? So, they don’t generally hang out in lower end, you know, spaces, right? And I don’t mean lower end as a derogatory type of term. I mean lower end as in your usually going to find them, you know, start with country clubs and up membership types like things like that, right? They’re usually, you know, they, you know, I have a good friend and, you know, he was telling me he’s like, you know, I’m going to go to the Celtics playoff games. And I’m like, that’s probably gonna, you know, be a ticket cost that is, you know, not going to be, you know, normal. And he’s like, I don’t care. I’m going to sit on the boxes. I’m going to do this. I’m going to do that. Right. So, it’s, it’s that type of thing. Where are they hanging out? You know, and they’re not, you know, hanging out in places usually that, you know, the top 10 % are hanging out there, hanging out in the top one, two, 3 % areas. [8:31]
Nancy Calabrese: Well, okay, so I stated earlier that you have clients seeing three million in new sales within five weeks through your optimized sales channels and conversational selling techniques. Can you expand on that? What are they?
Doug C. Brown: So, optimization is taking a look at everything that you’re doing and then asking these two, this one question, how do I make it more effective and how do I make it more efficient? So, it’s two separate questions, right? So, when you look at effectiveness, that is how do we make this, in the case of say, go back to Tony Robbins, Chet Holmes, that was how to make the conversion rate better, right? And then the efficiency on that is how do we make this more leveraged? How do we make it easier? How do we improve the profitability? How do we lower the time, the energy? How do we create systems around all that process? And how do we automate things, so we don’t have to do certain things? So, it’s all those two facets are what we want to look at every single time on the optimization side. And you asked me a second part of the question. I apologize. I forgot the second part. [9:54]
Nancy Calabrese: That’s fine. Conversational selling techniques. What are some of those?
Doug C. Brown: Okay. Yeah. So, so the conversation of selling is really about having a conversion conversation and I’ll explain what that is versus having a sales conversation, right? So, conversion conversations are doing really three things. One, they’re, they’re boosting rapport continuously. So, you know, work try a luck, not luck, trust, like, and respect. And a little luck sometimes doesn’t hurt, but it’s promoting those. It’s constantly moving the conversation in the direction of the business return on investment or personal return on investment that the potential buyer is always looking for. And I can expand upon that. And the third thing is we’re always creating what we call yes states. When we’re moving from stage step to step to step to step in the buyer’s mind, we’re thinking, yes, this makes sense. Yes. wow. Yeah. I didn’t know that. That’s, that’s good. Right. You constantly want to create a state of yes in the process and on the business and personal return. There’s, you know, people buy for different reasons, but they all kind of fall into those two categories. What is my business return on investment that I’m looking for? What is my personal return on investment that I’m looking for? And so, when we really understand that ideal client profile and the ideal buyer persona, what makes them, you know, their motivations, what do they want, need, feel, you know, fear, right? Value. We can construct our conversation to have a communication going on that’s more like what we’re doing right now, just having a conversation versus having to take them through each step. Well, hey, we built rapport here, next step you know, let’s do a discovery session, next step, let’s, you know, and that, and that, and that, that’s a sales conversation. And if you do conversational conversion the right way, in most cases, you never do a presentation, right? So, they never even ask for it. [12:09]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. You know, it’s so funny you bring that up because a lot of salespeople are asked to send proposals, and I never do. I never do. Why? You know, we’ve spoken about it. So, I find that very interesting too.
Doug C. Brown: Yeah, and the only reason to send a proposal is to solidify the agreement. And what I mean by that is the proposal is the actual agreement. [12:34]
Nancy Calabrese: Yes, I agree. I totally agree with you. And since I stopped doing that, which is years ago, I have so much more energy. And another thing, and I don’t know if this has been your experience, a lot of salespeople are afraid to ask for the closes, right? And I think the close is very simple. If you do everything right in the conversations prior, the close is simply, well, what would you like to have happen next? That’s what I say. What do you say?
Doug C. Brown: Yeah, what I usually say is, is this something you’d like to move with right now? Right? Forward with right now, something of that nature, because the course is nothing more than just asking a question. But the too many people, you know, they kind of make it about it’s that nervous guy takes out this beautiful girl. And at the end of the night, he’s like, should I kiss her? Shouldn’t I kiss her? Shouldn’t I kiss her? Shouldn’t I kiss her? Right? Should I try? Should I not? And they get they get all wound up about this thing. And the reality is, and statistically in selling, most people are expecting that question. So, if you don’t ask that question, they’re scratching their head like, why didn’t he try to kiss me? Right? So really, I can’t imagine why. So, it’s one of those situations that statistically, half the people never ask, which I think is crazy, right? Because, you know, crazy curiosity in my head because like, all right, we do all of this, you know, energy and effort to get to this place. And then it’s like, you know, they’re holding the ticket to the concert we wanted to go to in their hand and they’re saying, take it. And all we have to do is reach out and say, you know, thank you. Would you like to come with me, so to speak? And people don’t do that. But the reasons behind that are generally rejection. People don’t. They’re in a fear state. And so when they’re in a fear state, then they play scarcity. And when you play scarcity, they think scarcity and they act in scarcity. And that’s usually what happens. But the reality is those of you who who really want to know if you ask, you know, they’re going to say three things. Yes, no, maybe. And you can deal with that next level as long as we know what it is. But if you don’t ask, I mean, you’re, you know, firstly, it’s, it’s, it’s a rapport break because if they’re looking for somebody who has high confidence, which most people do, who wants to buy off somebody who’s like, you know, so shy and timid, like, well, maybe this will work. Maybe this will work, right? You know, you know, you don’t want to be in that position because, you know, confidence drops. But so asking and asking in a way that’s really kind of like part of the conversation that you would be having with your best friend. You know, that’s really how we want to I mean, you don’t ask your best friend like, you know, hey, do you think you want to go here? You know, you’re like, Hey, look, I’m going to go to the movies you want to go. [16:01]
Nancy Calabrese: Right, right. You want to cut, right? Listen, it’s better to get a no or a yes, but I hate the maybes. So what do you have to say about the maybes?
Doug C. Brown: Yeah. Well, the maybe is the first thing that I want people to understand when you get a maybe is don’t panic, right? So, it’s because the, the, the, it’s the same rules I teach and getting an objection, right? Cause a maybe really is an objection. It’s just that they’re lacking information and they’re not really sure. So, they’re in a state of, fear really when it comes down to it. Right. And we could call it discomfort because some people don’t like the word fear, but when somebody’s in that state they’re not sure where they’re going. So, they could be overwhelmed at this point. They could be underwhelmed, right? But they still have interest. So, the first thing is when we hear maybe folks breathe, take a breath, relax, right? Otherwise, the natural tendency is going to be to want to overcome it and or run away from it, right? Neither work very well. If we try to overcome it and they’re in a fear state and now we’re on top of them saying, hey, why what, what, what, you know, we’re just Adam, then all of a sudden, we’re going to start creating more fear. Because now it’s no longer about the situation. It’s about you, not you, Nancy, but the person selling, you know, being highly dominant. And now it’s no longer about even what the original objection was about, if you will, the maybe was about it’s about now they’re anchoring this fear to the individual selling, which is the worst position to be in. So yeah. [17:46]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. They shouldn’t be in sales if they’re fearful. Right? Because we live in rejection land. You get more no’s, way more no’s than you do get a yes. But when you get a yes, it’s like the baby came. This is great, right? But until the baby comes, you’re in a state of discomfort, or women are. So.
Doug C. Brown: Right. Well, then when the baby comes, it’s like all heck breaks loose, right? So, the other thing I wanted to say about that, Nancy, is if they’re getting a maybe, I would suggest that through their conversational conversion, they haven’t been qualifying or disqualifying. So, when we’re thinking about creating these yes states, if we’re creating these yes states, but they’re turning out to be nos, right? And it’s like your radar goes up as the selling entity. It might be time for you to disengage or at least qualify why, because a lot of times the maybes will come at the end because they’re thinking the same thing you are. I’m really not sure if this will work, but we’re trying to get it to a sale. And so, there’s where the apprehension comes up, right? We would, as the seller, be much better going, you know, and what we teach, we do teach this, which is if you are not the right fit for this, you gracefully disengage and you find out who the right fit is. It goes a long way versus just trying to, because there are no bad clients. There are bad sales and buying decisions that turn into bad clients. [19:25]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, you know, and I think getting back to our job in sales is to get to the answer or the no quickly. So, it frees you to move on to the next prospect, right?
Doug C. Brown: Well, I think I’d say getting to the know in its time, right? So, I don’t want to urge people to get to the No quickly because if we get to the know quickly, then sometimes we bypass things, right? So, I’ve seen it, and I’m saying this especially for non -experienced people who are listening to this, they’re like, okay. Because it’s okay to miss occasionally, right? Because even at the stages, yeah, I was just going to say that, right. I still miss, you know, time to time, right? I did the other day and I’m like, how did I miss that? Right? And that was the wrong question and the answer because my brain came back and said, because you’re stupid. Right. But, you know, a better-quality question would have been like, you know, where in the process that I know so well did I make the full power, right? And then it would have been like, right here. And then it would have been like, okay, so you learn from that. And that’s the other thing, Nancy. I want people to understand that multi -billionaires who are selling, not that I’m a multi -billionaire, but I can say certainly millionaire type selling, they make mistakes too. So, if you make mistakes, don’t beat yourself up for it because I’ve seen the best of the best, because I’ve been able, I mean, being president of Tony Robbins companies, you can imagine that the access I had to other people, right? And then, I’ve watched lots of them make mistakes. I mean, I watched Chad Holmes blow out a sale twice. Yeah, yeah, and I went back and closed the one of the two and it happened to be a little company called Intuit. Yeah, yeah. It was amazing. You know, we made about $435 ,000 off that, right? And, you know, the point I want to make is not how much money we made off that. But the point I want to make is that no matter how good you are, you’re still dealing with human beings. And, you know, if they sometimes throw you a curve ball, like, you know, how many people maybe are listening to this, are married or have been in a relationship for a long period of time and then all of a sudden something just comes up where in that relationship you’re like, whoa, where’s this coming from, right? [22:21]
Nancy Calabrese: I can’t believe we’re up with time. I want to ask you one other question. What is the one takeaway you want to leave the audience with?
Doug C. Brown: That it is our responsibility to do the right thing in selling, which means we want to play win -win, which means that if they’re not going to win and you’re going to win, that’s win -lose. If you’re going to lose and they’re going to win, that’s win -lose. So, if it’s not the right fit, as we were talking earlier, and you know it’s not win -win, then I firmly agree with what you said you know, disengage quickly, you know, get to that no on your side or their side. Because there’s, you know, there’s no sense in continuing the relationship in the capacity, turn it into a new relationship, and then work on expanding that relationship to get you better, better fit, right? They will appreciate it. So yes. [23:27]
Nancy Calabrese: Yep. Yeah. Well, how can my people find you?
Doug C. Brown: Well, they can do it numerous different ways. Can I give them something free, Nancy? Is that okay? Yeah, so I wrote an ebook called “The 1 % Earner” that we’re actually rewriting because when I read it just recently, I was like, there’s too much about me in that. So, I told everybody to take that out. But it’s at www.CEOSalesStrategies.com/1P .So one P E and they can download that and it will really talk about how you think and what’s the difference between, you know, people who are earning average in sales and you know, the one percenters, how they’re doing it. And they’re going to notice it’s not radical, you know, changes. It’s just, you know, slight changes that lead to better outcomes, right? So that’s one https://www.linkedin.com/in/dougbrown123/ is my LinkedIn. If they want to send in an email, please to the company, just send it to you matter youmatter@CEOSalesStrategies.com [24:45]
Nancy Calabrese: Wow, great conversation, Doug. I knew it was going to be. And for everyone out there, take advantage of this gentleman’s expertise in sales. And as you heard, he’s a funny guy too, so we’ll make it enjoyable. Doug, I appreciate you spending time with us today and sharing everything that you know, not even everything, but what we discussed, and I hope our paths cross again. So, for all of you people out there, make it an awesome sales day and definitely download that eBook, get in touch with Doug and we’ll see you next time. [25:25]
by Nancy Calabrese | Sep 25, 2024 | Podcast
About Drewbie Wilson: Drewbie Wilson is the Founder of Call The Damn Leads, where he empowers sales professionals through innovative tools like an e-commerce platform, a robust CRM, and educational resources designed to maximize success. Drewbie is a mindset and sales expert dedicated to helping individuals and businesses unlock their full potential. With a focus on personal growth and proven strategies, he has empowered countless clients to achieve remarkable success. Through his books “Crushing The Day” and “Social Media Mastery,” Drewbie shares insights on overcoming limiting beliefs, implementing effective sales systems, and mastering marketing techniques. Check out the latest episode of our Conversational Selling podcast to learn more about Drewbie.
In this episode, Nancy and Drewbie discuss the following:
- Description of the “call the damn leads” approach
- Why people avoid picking up the phone and calling the leads
- How to crush the day by calling the damn leads and create a version of success that makes them happy
- The number of leads that should be called daily and the importance of tracking metrics
- The importance of understanding the value of your time and using it wisely
- Drewbie’s advice to someone just starting in sales to overcome their fears
Key Takeaways:
- Everything in life has always come back to sales, for me personally.
- The one thing that I can always count on to get me a result in sales is to pick up the phone and call the damn leads.
- Sales is not always the most fun job, as there are many rejections and a lot of work.
- People want to do business with people. They don’t want to deal with robots.
- You have to keep filling the pipeline because if you go and harvest everything without putting anything new in the dirt, there will be nothing to harvest a little bit later.
“I like to take it one step further and look at it as I’m a servant first. We don’t have to get too into the religion or spiritual side of things. But ultimately, I look at myself on this planet as a servant first. And so, I’m going into every conversation looking at how I can serve this individual and leave them better off than when I entered this situation, whether helping them with a product or service or sharing some wisdom or knowledge. And to me, I think that’s a big differentiator; when you can get into a service-first mindset, you’re not calling to sell someone. You’re just calling to help. And it feels less transactional. And that’s where you can build relationships. And I’m sure you’ve talked about this before, but people buy from people they know, like, and trust. And I think that trust comes from the ability to communicate, “Hey, I understand you, and I want to help you,” because that’s why people do business with anyone. They want to get out of pain or get into pleasure. And so, if you can help to be the conduit for that situation, then the transaction is easy to occur.” – DREWBIE
“So, I started thinking about time, where I’m spending it, and what I’m spending it on, which led me to understand that I get to choose my own work. I get to pick how much my time is worth, where I spend it, and where I invest it. The difference is I must have the skillset and the confidence to show up and deliver that to someone else who’s going to be willing to pay me for my skillset, for my time, because time is our one true resource. You cannot buy it. You cannot win it in a poker tournament, as much as we’d love to get a box on Christmas or a card on our birthday. It never goes that way. So, that conversation sent me down a path of realizing that I get to decide what I do daily. And I get to decide where I spend my time, who I spend it with, and what I spend it on to know the kind of return I will get on that investment. As a sales professional, we aim to help prospects understand that the value of what they will receive far exceeds the price they will pay. So, when you can have that conversation with yourself about your time, it’s amazing what you can truly start to accomplish.” – DREWBIE
“Know what your time is truly worth. At the end of the day, that is the one thing I can encourage anyone to take stock of. What is your time worth now? And what would you need it to be worth to live the life that you want to live? It’s a matter of increasing your skill set or spending more time working doing what you do great. That’s it. It’s always a matter of what your time is worth. Where are you spending it? What are you spending it on? And who are you spending it with? Because that’s what’s going to end up being the recipe for the life that you get to live.” – DREWBIE
Connect with Drewbie Wilson:
Try Our Proven, 3-Step System, Guaranteeing Accountability and Transparency that Drives RESULTS by clicking on this link: https://oneofakindsales.com/call-center-in-a-box/
Connect with Nancy Calabrese:
Voiceover: You’re listening to The Conversational Selling Podcast with Nancy Calabrese.
Nancy Calabrese: Hi, it’s Nancy Calabrese, and it’s time again for Conversational selling – the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today. And it always starts with the human conversation. Today we’re speaking with Drewbie Wilson, the meme lord, the renowned branding expert and creator of the revolutionary call the damn leads approach and action. A taker with his finger on the pulse who focuses on service to others above all else, leading him to produce more than seven figures in revenue, no matter what industry he’s worked in. Not one to turn away from a challenge, he looks to get out of his comfort zone as much as possible. A servant first, operating with the utmost integrity and humility, but not afraid to tell it like it is. Confidence and empathy are his superpowers. Welcome to the show, Drewby. I’m going to love this conversation.
Drewbie Wilson: Nancy, thank you so much for having me and to the listener. Thank you for being here with us. I am grateful you’re investing a little bit of your time to be here with us today. And you’ll hear me talk a lot about that time is our most valuable asset. So, I’m excited to be spending a little bit of it with you here today, Nancy. [1:31]
Nancy Calabrese: Awesome, awesome, awesome. Okay, call the damn leads approach. What is that about?
Drewbie Wilson: Well, it’s really a mantra for doing the work. I have been in sales for a little over two decades now. I’m coming up on my 36th birthday and I grew up in the streets selling anything and everything. As I got older, realized I didn’t want to be dead or in prison. You know, I got married, had a beautiful young son. Everything in life has always come back to sales for me personally. And the one thing that I can always count on to get me a result in sales is to pick up the phone and call the damn leads. And so ultimately for me, it’s, it’s kind of extended into many areas of my life, personally and professionally, but it is, it’s just a mantra for doing the dag gum work. And that’s what a lot of people are avoiding, unfortunately. So, I just like to shoot them straight and tell them what it’s going to take. [2:31]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. Why do you think people avoid that?
Drewbie Wilson: Well, we could get into a couple different theories I have but first and foremost I think people are afraid of rejection which is one thing that prevents someone from picking up the phone and calling leads I think there are situations where someone is selling a product or service that they don’t 100 % believe in or trust which is hard because if you have to sell something to someone that you don’t believe in, there’s no confidence. And honestly, without confidence, it’s hard to deliver that enthusiasm or get someone else to have that faith and belief in it. And so, you know, on top of that, there’s something I think there’s that’s called imposter syndrome. You may or may not have heard that term before, but it’s that idea or feeling where, you know, you’re afraid to step up in front of someone or have a conversation because you don’t know everything. You know, we could go deep on how to me that’s a theory of integrity. But ultimately, I think the biggest thing is people get in their own way. [3:34]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, you know, when I think about picking up the phone and calling the leads, I think of it as phone networking versus face -to -face networking. And, you know, when you go to a networking event, you’re really meeting strangers, right? Shaking their hands, but you don’t know them. And picking up the phone is the same concept. You may not know them if it’s, say, a cold call or a lead that somebody gave you, but it’s a form of introduction. What do you have to say about that?
Drewbie Wilson: I like to take it one step further and look at it as I’m a servant first. You know, we don’t have to get too into the religion or spiritual side of things. But ultimately, I look at myself on this planet as a servant first. And so, I’m going into every conversation, looking at how can I serve this individual and leave them better off than when I entered this situation, whether that’s helping them with a product or service, sharing some sort of wisdom or knowledge. And to me, I think that’s a big differentiator is that when you can get into a service first mindset, you’re not calling to sell someone. You’re literally just calling to help. And it feels less transactional. And that’s where you can really build relationships. And I’m sure you’ve talked about this before, but people buy from people who they know, like and trust. And I think that trust comes from the ability to communicate, hey, I understand you and I want to help you because that’s why people do business with anyone. They want to get out of pain or get into pleasure. And so, if you can help to be the conduit for that situation, then the transaction is easy to occur. [5:28]
Nancy Calabrese: So, describe to the audience how to crush the day, yes, by calling the damn leads and creating a version of success that makes them happy. How will that make them happy?
Drewbie Wilson: You know, I, well, I appreciate you asking. This is one of the things, you know, those mantras crushed the day before it crushes you called a damn lead. Again, it’s kind of a, all comes back to doing the work and what I have learned, you know, if you go and check out, I’ve written a couple of books or if you, you know, listen to some of my other podcasts that I’ve done, I talk about at one point in my life, I weighed over 300 pounds and I had to go on a really big physical weight loss journey. At one point I was very unhappy, unfulfilled in my job. So, I had to go on a personal development journey. And for me, crushing the day is where it all started to, hey, I’m going to wake up and I’m going to be intentional with my time first, because at one point in my life, and some of you may relate to this, I was very reactionary. The alarm went off, so I got up and I did the things and then something happened. So, I did the thing. And then there was another fire that I had to put out in another fire. And I was just reacting to everything that came at me instead of being proactive and intentional. And so, crushing the day is if I know I wake up on time, I read, I meditate, I focus on gratitude, and then I go do the things that I know need to be done first. That to me is crushing the day. And if I can avoid the negative news, the toxic, politish, you know, political nonsense, things that go on and, and avoid the toxicity of social media. Well, those are the things that will crush you. If you’ve ever opened up the news first thing in the morning and its bad news, bad news, bad news, maybe one small clip of a good thing, but then right back to the bad news, it’s easy to let that energy kind of just throw your whole day off. So, to crush today is really to just be intentional with your time know that you’re doing the things that are moving you forward towards the life that you want. And ultimately, that’s what’s going to create happiness because you’re going to get the result that you’re looking for. [7:39]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, well, you know, and, you know, as it relates to sales, I think it’s important to focus on the activities that you can control each and every day that will help you move the bar, right? Get closer to hitting your goals. I’m curious, is there a story the audience would find interesting? You sound like you’ve had a real interesting life so far.
Drewbie Wilson: Nancy, I could tell you about 10, 12 hours worth of stories if we had all day, but we only have about 18 to 20 minutes for the sake of time. So let me start with this. at a point in my life, like I said, I grew up in the streets running and gun and doing all the things we’re not supposed to. So, I’m very blessed to even be here to begin with. But there was a conversation I had with another Nancy, funny enough at one point where I was starting to learn marketing. I was great at sales, and I realized, hey, if I don’t learn how to generate my own leads, I’m always going to be limited by what’s provided to me. And not that I wasn’t doing okay, but as you know, good will steal from great every chance it gets. So, I decided to go out and learn marketing. And I was like, if I can just get more leads, I can sell more stuff and make more money. So that’s what I started doing. And I had a little success with that. And this wonderful woman named Nancy, she reached out to me, and she said, Hey, Drewbie I see you’re, you’re using this software that I’m also using. How much for an hour of your time to show me a few things on what you’re doing. And what a humbling question that was for me, because at the time, you know, I grew up 10 bucks an hour was kind of grunt labor. Like that’s what you made. If you didn’t have any education and you just did like hard labor, you made 10 bucks an hour in sales at the time. I think I was making 25 bucks an hour. So, I was like, you know, for a kid who barely graduated and came out of the streets, like that’s not too bad. However, if I was working overtime or on a holiday, they’d pay me double time, time and a half. So, I’m doing this set like hourly mindset math. And I realized, okay, well my time’s worth $50. And Nancy says, well, I’m gonna give you 75. I thought that’s amazing. I’ll take it, right? I’m not gonna say no to that. That’d be silly. And so we have the call. She sends me the Venmo for 75 bucks. And I remember messaging my wife and going, this is amazing. How do I do this? Like three times a day. And I would make in one day what it takes me a week to make currently. So, I started thinking about time and where I’m spending it and what I’m spending it on, which led me to understanding that I get to choose my own work. I get to pick how much my time is worth and where I spend it, where I invest it, the difference is I must have the skillset and the confidence to show up and deliver that to someone else who’s going to be willing to pay me for my skillset for my time, because time is our one true resource. You cannot buy it. You cannot win it in a poker tournament as much as we’d love to get a box of it on Christmas or a card of it on our birthday. It never goes that way. So that one conversation sent me down a path of realizing that I get to make the decisions of what I do every day. And I get to decide where I spend my time, who I spend it with and what I spend it on to know the kind of return I’m going to get on that investment. And as a sales professional, our whole goal is to help prospects understand that the value of the thing they’re going to receive far exceeds what the price they’re going to pay is. So, when you can have that conversation with yourself about your time, it’s amazing what you can truly start to accomplish. [11:39]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. Wow. That’s really awesome. Is there anything in particular you want me to spotlight about your company and what you do?
Drewbie Wilson: I mean, I think the most important about my company, you know, call the damn leads. Our whole goal is just to be a reminder for sales professionals and business owners everywhere. Listen, sales are not always the most fun job is a lot of rejection. It’s a lot of work. It’s a lot of nos, but at the same time, it’s so fulfilling. There are so many amazing things that can happen. It doesn’t matter where you come from, what background you have, if you’re willing to trust the process and do the work to call the damn leads, you can have any life that you want. And so that to me is the spotlight. It’s not about me or the company. It’s about the individual who’s listening to us today, investing their time to learn something that could help them better their life. So, to me, if you want to spotlight anyone. Spotlight the listener for investing a little of their time with us today so that they can learn and grow because they’re the next future They’re the ones that I hope to get to listen to at some point because I always want to learn as well. [12:47]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, that’s really cool. Do you have a recommendation how many leads should be called on a daily basis?
Drewbie Wilson: You know, I have a personal metric that has worked well for me for the last 10 years in like regular sales. And it’s this, I always look to make at least a hundred outbound contact attempts a day. And that could be phone calls, text messages, emails. You might send, you know, direct messages on social media, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, wherever. You might also do in -person meetups, right? But a hundred attempts every day to have a conversation. Cause out of those hundred attempts, my goal is to have 10 good conversations. That means that I’ve built rapport. I’ve gone through all of my pre -qualifying questions to determine if this person is a good fit for our product or service. And then I’ve made a, a presentation to move forward with the next step. So, it’s kind of like I’ve made an offer. Maybe I’ve sent a contract, maybe not, but we’re moving forward in the next process of those 10. I want to get two sales. And so, it may sound like a lot of Nancy, right? 110 to is like, my gosh, that’s a lot of work every day. But the truth is out of a normal month, I’m working anywhere from 20 to 22 days, right? For, you know, Monday through Friday, maybe a Saturday here and there, about 20, 22 days a month. So, during those workdays, I want to get two out of the three of those metrics on any given day. And I know that at the end of the month, it’s going to add up to success because you might make a hundred contacts and not have a lot of conversations, but you might close a couple of deals or you might have 10 good conversations and close to sales, but you don’t have a chance to go and make a hundred contact attempts. I understand time is very limited. You must have a real good conversation, it takes 20 minutes, 30 minutes, sometimes longer. So, it’s all a matter of just hitting those metrics on a consistent basis. Because if I’m doing that day after day after day, I’m planting a few seeds on this day, then I’m nurturing them, then I’m harvesting them, then I’m planting some new seeds where those were harvested, right? You’re consistently filling the pipeline. And that’s the key to long -term sales are you have to keep filling the pipeline because if you just go and harvest everything without putting anything new in the dirt, well, there’s going to be nothing to harvest a little bit later. So, it’s always about finding that balance of a hundred, ten, two, and getting two of the three of those on any given day. Hopefully that made sense. [15:37]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, wow. I mean, and do you actually track those metrics?
Drewbie Wilson: Yes, ma ‘am. If it gets measured, it can be improved. And I think that’s a thing that a lot of professionals are missing out on right now is they’re just guessing how much work they’re doing without having a solid tracking or a measurement system. And I could tell you without fail, if you woke up and got on the scale every day, you would notice whether you were doing the work or not.
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah.
Drewbie Wilson: Same thing, if you look at your bank account right now, if the number’s lower than you’d like it to be, it’s because you’re not calling the damn leads. It’s because you’re not doing the work. And so it’s always a math problem at that point. [16:16]
Nancy Calabrese: Well, tell me something that’s true that almost nobody agrees with you on.
Drewbie Wilson: I think that it’s still really important to pick up the phone and call the damn leads. I think a lot of people are saying that, well, texting is better, or emails are better. But at the end of the day, it’s easy to hide behind a keyboard and use AI and all these fancy tools that exist. But you know what’s still the bottom line? People want to do business with people. They don’t want to deal with robots. They don’t like the kiosk. They want to know there’s someone at the other end of that conversation that they can truly speak with and have a relationship with. That’s my belief. Not everybody agrees, but it is what it is. [16:59]
Nancy Calabrese: You’re not gonna replace the human conversation with all this technology out there. It’s just, it’s that exchange of information between two human beings cannot be replaced by AI and all the other things, you know, online. You know, I can’t believe we’re almost up in time. What is the one takeaway you wanna leave the audience with, Drewbie?
Drewbie Wilson: To know what your time is truly worth. At the end of the day, that is the one thing that if I can encourage anyone to truly take stock in, it’s what is your time worth now? And what would you need it to be worth to live the life that you wanna live? Because it’s a matter of increasing your skillset or spending more time working doing the thing that you do great. That’s it. It’s always a matter of what is your time worth? Where are you spending it? What are you spending it on? And who are you spending it with? Because that’s what’s going to end up being the recipe for the life that you get to live. [18:04]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, I guess now you’ve triggered another thought. How does somebody figure out what their time is worth?
Drewbie Wilson: So, it’s a math problem, like everything in life. Here’s what I always tell my clients. This is usually the first thing that we do when we start working together is take all of the money that you made last year as a total. So, your day job, if you work a W -2 job, take all of that money. If you have a side gig or you have, you know, little hustles that you do where you make a couple bucks on the side, even if you’re not reporting it, I’m not here to judge you. I’m just saying take all that and add it up because you spent the time to earn that money. Maybe you have one of those spicy websites where you share pictures of your feet or something. I don’t know. I’m not judging. Just take all the money that you made and add it up as a total. And then you want to divide that total by 2000. And here’s why. Because if you worked a typical job, Monday through Friday, nine to five, 40 hours a week, you’d work 50 weeks a year. Cause you get your two weeks of vacation time, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That would be an average individual. If you’re here with us today, you’re not average. You’re taking the time to learn and grow. So I already know you’re not average, but if you were, you’d work 2000 hours a year. So quick math, if you made a hundred grand last year and you worked 2000 hours, your time is worth $50 an hour. That may not be terrible, but here’s where I really trip you up, Nancy. Let’s say I put on a black cape, and I come knock on the door and I say, Hey, congratulations, Nancy. My name is death. You have 24 hours left to live. Your time is worth $50 an hour. Here’s 50 bucks. I need you to come with me. What are you gonna say? [19:49]
Nancy Calabrese: No way Jose!
Drewbie Wilson: I mean, I could think of several different, you know, very, very mean things that I would want to say to that person if they were me in that situation. However, here’s what I know. A lot of people are operating as if they have an unlimited amount of time. Nobody knows for sure when that their end of their clock runs out. No one can say for sure, but everyone still runs around and says, I’ll do that later; I’ll do that thing when; I’ll take that trip after. But how you know for sure you’re going to get there. And so, the thing that’s interesting to me is that at a certain number though, you’re going to be willing to exchange that hour because you realize money is a tool, is a resource that we use to get the things that we want in life, to share the things that we want with the people we care about. So, you just must determine what is that number for me that I’m willing to exchange my time for. And if it isn’t like the monetary dollar amount, what does the exchange have to be for me? Like, what do I have to get out of that time invested for it to be worth it to me? Because maybe your time is invested with your friends, with your family, at church, doing good for the homeless, whatever it is that brings you joy, I encourage you to do that. But know, what is your time worth and what’s the return on the investment that you’re getting for it? [21:12]
Nancy Calabrese: Wow, powerful stuff. How can my people find you?
Drewbie Wilson: The best way to find me, you can go to calledadamleeds .com. You can just Google call the damn leads. We’re on every social media platform that you could find us on, whether that’s Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, I hit all the major places. So, wherever you like to hang out, go to call the damn leads. You’ll find us. We’re there. We’re always giving away tons of valuable content for sales professionals. And more than anything, if there’s something you heard today that you got value out of, I’d love to hear about it 30 days from now and see how it’s truly affected your life by implementing because that’s the most important part. You can hear it. You can think it’s awesome, but if you don’t take action on it, unfortunately you won’t get the results. So let me be the reminder for you that if you heard something great, the first thing you should do is go take action and review this episode for Nancy and let everybody know that you appreciated her taking the time, energy and effort to make this show possible because as a host myself, Nancy, I appreciate that you go above and beyond to share your time and your resources. So, if anyone got anything of value, do me that favor first, go follow Nancy and share the show because that’s what’s going to help us get in front of more great people. [22:29]
Nancy Calabrese: Love it, love it. Drewbie, you are fantastic. And actually, I want to be on your podcast. I went on your website. So, I sent you a note earlier. Folks, reach out to Drewbie. He’s an expert. I love Call the Damn Leads. We have a lot in common. So, for all of you people out there, pick up that phone and make it a great sales day. [22:55]
by Nancy Calabrese | Sep 12, 2024 | Podcast
About Tom Latourette: Tom Latourette has been a disciple of the M3 Learning process since 2000 when he was the VP of Sales and Marketing at SBR, Inc. With over 30 years of marketing, sales, and sales management experience, Tom can bring a unique, real-world perspective to your M3 Learning experience. His knowledgeable application of ProActive solutions can greatly impact your productivity as a sales manager or salesperson. Check out the latest episode of our Conversational Selling podcast to learn more about Tom.
In this episode, Nancy and Tom discuss the following:
- The importance of practical, bottom-line sales tools for both sales reps and managers to improve performance
- The importance of understanding what activities top performers do daily to replicate success across the team
- Challenges in managing senior salespeople and the importance of aligning their goals with their personal “why”
- Using proactive solutions, like the COD method (Cause, Outcome, Decide), to guide sales discovery calls effectively
- The value of consultative selling over feature-based selling by focusing on uncovering client needs before pitching solutions
Key Takeaways:
- One of the biggest things is that space of really understanding what creates success in your organization.
- When I’m interviewing salespeople, I watch how they handle the interview because they will interview the same way that they will sell.
- Ask a few good outcome questions and ensure you’re finding out their decision-making process.
- We’ve got to do kind of a yin and yang. Sometimes, we have to answer the question but ensure we’re flipping.
“And our answer was, well, Rich always hits his goal. That’s what A players do. That’s what high performers do. We didn’t have to worry about Rich. And he goes, “Great. Great, I get it. But let me ask you guys a question. You’re sitting here at this two-day leadership training program. We’re going to be talking about a lot of great stuff. But what’s Rich doing today? What’s he doing to make success happen 12 months from now?” And, Nancy, we couldn’t answer that question. We didn’t know. We couldn’t answer the question. Rich was already a really good salesperson. We didn’t know. We didn’t feel we could bring anything to the table for him. But what Skip helped us see was that if we couldn’t articulate what success looked like, what the steps a successful salesperson was doing daily, then as a leadership team, or even as a company, we couldn’t hire more Riches. We couldn’t coach the rest of our people to be like Rich. And maybe we were going to lose Rich because he’s watching us spend all of our time with our non-performers, trying to help them get better. Right? And that was a big moment. I remember midway through my career, I felt like my mind expanded and really got to that space of “What are things? How do I get my people to do the right things? And what are those things that they need to do? And how do we do more of them?” – TOM
“Ithink, one, you know, probably one of the biggest things we have to do a better job of as leaders, not just of salespeople but leaders of humans, as other people, is. I think sales leaders often don’t understand the “why” behind the humans we’re working with. One of the questions I like to ask sales leaders I work with is, “Tell me why this person wants to perform better. What are they striving for?” You know, the great thing about Rich was that on January 1st of every year, Rich would take a picture of what he would spend his commission check on at the end of the year. And so, one year, it was a new truck. The next year, it was a hot tub. The year after that, it was a new deck. And so, as Rich’s leader, every time I’d work with Rich, I’d go, “Hey Rich, what are we working towards today? What are we working towards this year?” And then I could get alignment on helping him achieve his goals, right? So, I think the first thing, Nancy, is we have to be better humans aligned with our people and understand their “why” better. What is it about this job? What about the goal they’re setting for themselves that is important to them? I don’t know if that makes sense, and it seems like a soft skill, but I see that too many leaders don’t know the answer to that.” – TOM
“Think about your relationship with a client much like your relationship on a first date. A first date is not about telling you how great I am; it’s about uncovering what you’re looking for. The objective of a first date is to determine if a second date makes sense. Then, after a second date, you determine if a third date makes sense, and so on, until a strong relationship is formed. One of the things we talk about is getting salespeople out of the space where they think people want to be educated. People don’t want to be educated; they want to be validated. Good discovery is about validating your needs and allowing you to be heard. I think salespeople have to get better at discovery, asking better, deeper questions, and being okay with asking before they tell.” – TOM
Connect with Tom Latourette:
Try Our Proven, 3-Step System, Guaranteeing Accountability and Transparency that Drives RESULTS by clicking on this link: https://oneofakindsales.com/call-center-in-a-box/
Connect with Nancy Calabrese:
Voiceover: You’re listening to The Conversational Selling Podcast with Nancy Calabrese.
Nancy Calabrese: Hi, it’s Nancy Calabrese, and it’s time again for Conversational selling – the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today. And it always starts with the human conversation. Today we’re speaking with Tom Latourette, managing partner and certified trainer of M3 Learning, a company dedicated to empowering sales professionals with practical, bottom line sales tools that help them take control of the sales process, improve performance, and drive measurable results in organizations worldwide. With over 30 years of marketing, sales, and sales management experience, Tom is able to bring a unique real world perspective to your M3 learning experience. His knowledgeable application of the proactive solutions can make a big impact on your productivity, either as a sales manager or a sales person. Welcome to the show, Tom. Let’s get started.
Tom Latourette: Nancy, thank you. First, thank you so much. Thanks for that great introduction. And yeah, I’m pleased to be here and I can’t wait to love these conversations. [1:27]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, me too, especially when I speak with other sales experts. So, you know, what really jumped out at me is you have you use practical bottom-line sales tools that are really helpful to sales reps and managers. So, can you describe what they are?
Tom Latourette: Yeah, you know, probably the best way to describe. So, I’m a little bit. I’ve been doing this for a while and probably about 21 years ago, I was the vice president of sales for a large vinyl window company. We were about a hundred-million-dollar company and one of my regional managers. So I had 50 salespeople, five regional managers. One of my regional managers read this book called Proactive Sales Management by this guy, Skip Miller. So, we hired Skip to come in. He’s going to work with our regional management team. Skip sits down. Nancy, I remember thinking, I was probably about 36, 37. We had grown sales about 25, 30 % a year. I remember thinking that this gentleman is going to be so impressed with me and my sales leadership skills. He’s going to write a chapter about me in his next book. And so, he sits us down and he says, it’s myself and my five regional managers. And he says, Hey, let me ask you, who’s your best salesperson? And we go, that’s Rich Fenlock. Rich was our number one salesperson for three years in a row. And Skip goes, great, great. Why is he your best salesperson? And Nancy, of course, you know, the answer we gave him was, well, Rich sells the most. That’s why he’s our number one salesperson. That skip was great, great, great. I get it. Let me ask you another question. How do you guys know Rich is going to hit his goal 12 months from now? And our answer was, well, Rich always hits his goal. That’s what A players do. That’s what high performers do. We didn’t have to worry about Rich. And he goes, great. Great, I get it. But let me ask you guys a question. You’re sitting here at this two -day leadership training program. We’re going to be talking about a lot of great stuff. But what’s Rich doing today? What’s he doing right now to make success happen 12 months from now? And Nancy, we couldn’t answer that question. We didn’t know. We couldn’t answer the question. Rich was already a really good salesperson. We didn’t know. We didn’t feel like we could bring anything to the table for him, but what Skip helped us see. Was that if we couldn’t articulate what success looked like, what the steps that a successful salesperson was doing on a daily basis, then as a leadership team, or even as a company, we couldn’t hire more riches. We couldn’t coach the rest of our people to be like rich. And maybe we’re going to lose rich because he’s watching us spend all of our time with our non -performers trying to help them get better. Right. And that was a big, I remember midway in my career, I felt like my mind expanded and really got to that space of what are the things, how do I get my people to do the right things and what are those things that they need to do and how do we do more of them? Does that make sense, Nancy? [4:58]
Nancy Calabrese: Absolutely. I mean, you know, the one thing that I’ve learned in sales is you want to do the activities that you can control. It’s all activity based. So that’s really interesting. So how did you then go back to this guy, Rich, and learn what he does each and every day?
Tom Latourette: What a great question. And so what we did is, I remember this, Nancy, we fly Rich in to the office. You know, he’s a high performer. We’re going to pick Rich’s brain. We’re going to, you know, we bring them in. We’re rich. We got two days. And you know, Nancy, Rich couldn’t answer that question because Rich just did it in his gut. There was that space. I mean, we see that a lot with high performers, right? They, they don’t like when you ask them to articulate what they did. It was really hard for them to do. So, what we saw, what Skip really helped us see, that a lot of times our job as leaders, our job as the manager, as Rich’s manager, wasn’t necessarily to you know, coach rich or to make him better. It was to observe what he does so that we could then replicate that throughout the rest of the organization. And so all of a sudden we started, we started, we were very purposeful about looking at, rich asks this question all the time when he’s meeting somebody for the first time, or he uses this piece of literature. He goes in and has this conversation about a feature or benefit that was important to a client. We recognize that those were things we could teach. And so, you know, that space of really helping salespeople understand what are those things that I do that are creating success or moving the ball forward? How do I keep replicating those, you know? [6:52]
Nancy Calabrese: Let me ask you this, and I think a challenge for many business owners and sales leaders, when you are dealing with a senior level salesperson, how do you manage them? A lot, in my experience, they’re not open to, not always open to be managed, that’s number one, or not always open to continue training because they feel they know it all. So, what are your thoughts on that?
Tom Latourette: Yeah, you know, I think one, you know, probably one of the biggest things we have to do a better job of as leaders of not just salespeople, but leaders of humans as other people is. I think too many times sales leaders don’t understand the why behind the humans that we’re working with. You know, one of the questions I like to ask sales leaders I work with is, tell me why this person wants to perform better. What are they striving for? You know, the great thing about Rich was on January 1st of every year, Rich would take a picture of what he was going to spend his commission check on at the end of the year. And so, one year it was a new truck. The next year it was a hot tub. The year after that it was a new deck. And so, as Rich’s leader, every time I’d work with Rich, I’d go, hey Rich, what are we working towards today? What are we working towards this year? And then I could get alignment on helping him achieve his goals, right? So, I think the first thing, Nancy, is we just have to be better humans aligned with our people and understand their why better. What is it about this job? What is it about the goal that they’re setting for themselves that is important to them? I don’t know if that makes sense and it seems like a soft skill, but I see that too many leaders don’t know the answer to that. [8:57]
Nancy Calabrese: Okay, so Tom, my experience is, and I hear this complaint time and time again from sales leaders and business owners that they just don’t, I guess, attract or recruit the right type of sales candidates that are good for the company. How important is like a cultural fit even versus who they know when you hire a producer or sales rep.
Tom Latourette: That’s a great question. Yeah, I would agree completely. I mean, I think, you know, one of the one of the biggest things is that that space of really understanding what creates success in your organization. What are the activities I need people to do? What are the behaviors? What are the how do they need to be wired? If I can articulate that powerfully, that helps me in my hiring. It helps me in my onboarding. But I think a lot of times we go a lot of leaders will go by gut and go, I like this person instead of really thinking about the science behind it. You know I’m a big fan of a lot of the tools that are available to help you maybe do some assessments things like that before but I but I also caution that you have to use those as tools and not as you know absolutes, right. I think a lot of times, sometimes the best exercise I’ve seen is you give candidates, especially people that you want to hire, give them a project, give them something. Hey, come to the next interview and pretend you’re doing a sales call and watch how they operate. They plan a sales call. In fact, if anything, especially when I’m interviewing for salespeople, watch how they handle the interview because they’re going to interview the same way that they’re going to sell and getting them out of that space of, one of the things we teach is watch for how people flip you. We call it the flip. When I answer a question, ask another question. You know, I continue the conversation. Too many salespeople have one -sided conversations and you can watch that in an interview. You can see how well somebody’s going to do that in an interview. How well do they prepare for the interview? How well do they follow up? What do they, you know, if you don’t reply to them for four or five days, what’s their follow -up structure look like? I can’t tell you how many salespeople in my career that I’ve realized have not been a good fit because they got too pushy or they didn’t get pushy enough. Does that make sense? [11:55]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, yeah, really. Let’s talk about proactive solutions. What is that?
Tom Latourette: You know, so one of the philosophies that Skip taught, so Skip Miller has written seven books. I don’t know if you knew Skip, but he passed away last year. And so it’s been, you know, an interesting space for our organization. We kind of feel like a 28 year old startup, but one of the reasons I liked Skip so much and I worked with him for 20 years was that he took a tool -based philosophy, tool -based methodology to these sales conversations. How do we help a salesperson becomes strategic in their discovery. What would a tool look like? And so, you know, a good example is one of the things that we teach is on a discovery call, you’ve got to uncover cause, outcome, and decide. We call it COD. And getting a salesperson getting really good at what’s the cause? Why are we having this conversation in the first place? What’s happening for business in your organization? And don’t just accept that first answer. You want to dive down into that. Tell me more about that. How is that impacting your business, your organization? How’s it impacting your team? You can uncover a lot before you go into, let me tell you how great we are. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So that’s call me. Then outcomes. What are the positive outcomes you need to see and what are the negative outcomes you need to avoid? And getting in a conversation about that in discovery really starts uncovering the clients’ issues and the challenges and the problems, what they can afford to overcome and what they can’t. And then lastly, that space of not just who’s making the decision, you know, too many times we see salespeople, who’s the decision maker. Instead of asking a what’s your decision-making process? How do you get how does this organization go making decisions? Those are tools that you can easily teach a salesperson and go, okay Your next discovery call, ask a few good cause questions, ask a few good outcome questions and make sure you’re finding out what their decision-making process is. And creating questions behind that then creates a place where I can become more proactive and intentional. [14:39]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. So, you know, you kind of touched on this a few minutes ago. What are your thoughts on these two forms of selling features and benefits and consultative selling?
Tom Latourette: Yeah, it’s a great question. I mean, I think, yeah, one of the things that we try to caution salespeople about is, you know, too many times we walk in and the client pushes us to education. They start the conversation, hey, we’ve done all of our research. We like what you guys do. Tell us why you’re better than X or how you can help us. And we launch into, because the plan asked us, we figure our job is to answer their question. And then we talk for 40 minutes about what we can do and how we can do it. And let me show you a demo. And we jump right over discovery. We jump, the energy in that conversation is, why are we having this conversation in the first place? What’s broken? What needs to be fixed? What’s happening? And so, cause, outcome, decide. We’ve got to find out what’s the problem and what’s the size of that problem. Our belief is Nancy, I shouldn’t even be talking about features and benefits until I understand why it would be of value to you. And I can’t do that unless I operate like a consultant or a strategic partner. I need to uncover and I need to ask questions. Now, as you know, the challenge is a lot of clients push us to education. They believe that they’ve done a lot more research. And so we’ve got to do kind of a yin and yang that’s sometimes we’ve got to answer the question but make sure we’re flipping. We’ve got to give a short 30 second 45 second answer and then okay tell me more you know give me some more information. So, we have to make that a two -way conversation right? [16:41]
Nancy Calabrese: Yep. Well, it’s kind of like, you know, when you go to a doctor, they don’t diagnose you immediately. They have to ask you a lot of questions before they can offer a solution. Same thing, right?
Tom Latourette: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I think, you know, one of the problems in the answer, I was just going to say, I think what happens a lot of times too is maybe I’m, you know, if I’m a new salesperson, I’m talking to some people who maybe have been in their position or been in their industry for as long as I’ve been alive. And so, there’s a space where maybe I don’t feel confident or comfortable asking those questions. But I’ll tell you, if I could go back to my 25-30 year old self, what I would tell myself is I would say, you know, the thing I’m recognizing is it’s not so important what you say, but it’s really what I get you to say and the questions I ask so that you talk more than me. And that’s a skill that you have to teach young salesperson and young salespeople. But then Nancy, you also talked, I think the challenge with veterans is they’ve become so good at it that they want to short circuit the process instead of really doing the discovery and the uncovering that they know they need to do it. They just don’t do a good enough job of it, right? [18:10]
Nancy Calabrese: Yep. Yeah. You know, it’s the old 70 -30 % rule, right? 70 % of the time, clients should be talking. 30 % should be the sales rep. You know, I can’t believe I’m really enjoying our discussion, but we’re out of time. Let me, let’s, one more question. What is the one takeaway you want to leave the audience?
Tom Latourette: This has been great, Nancy. Thank you so much. Yeah.
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. So what’s the one takeaway you want to leave the audience with, Tom?
Tom Latourette: Yeah, probably the biggest takeaway in this conversation, I think, is, you know, think about your relationship with a client, much like your relationship on a first date. You know, a first date is really not about me telling you how great I am. It’s really about uncovering what you’re looking for. And, you know, the objective of a first date is to determine if a second date makes sense. And then after a second date, it’s the third date makes sense. And so, and on and on until a strong relationship is formed getting salespeople out of that space of one of the things we talk about is people don’t want to be educated. They want to be validated. And so that space of good discovery is validating your needs, allowing you to be heard. And so I think salespeople just have to get better at discovery, asking better, deeper questions and being okay asking before they tell. [19:57]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, love it, love it, love it. How can my people find you, Tom?
Tom Latourette: So definitely on LinkedIn, our website is m3learning .com. We’ve got a really robust community, but I’d love to connect with anybody on LinkedIn. And I answer on LinkedIn all the time. It’s probably the best way. And my email address is tom at m3learning .com. Cell phone number is 847 -528 -2738. And I just, you know, our goal is to help as many salespeople as we can and sales leaders, but this helping, you know, really feel better about those conversations. [20:42]
Nancy Calabrese: Wonderful. And by the way, Tom’s last name is spelled L A T O U R E T T E. Tom, you are fantastic. I really appreciate you spending time with me and my audience. And I hope we get to continue this conversation at another time for all you sales reps out there and leaders. He is, he’s wonderful. You really have so much wisdom. So, take advantage of his expertise and reach out to Tom. And until we meet again, make it an awesome sales day, everyone, and we’ll speak soon. [21:27]
by Nancy Calabrese | Sep 6, 2024 | Podcast
About Adi Klevit: Adi is the leader and visionary of Business Success Consulting Group. Her twenty-five years of knowledge and experience as a trained Industrial Engineer, management consultant, and business executive give her a unique understanding of the challenges businesses face. Adi utilizes her practical know-how and wisdom to help organizations and companies of any size dramatically improve their efficiency and performance. By leveraging her ability to understand business processes as well as people and drawing on her high-caliber skills in vital areas of personnel management, finance, and operations, Adi can help virtually any business owner achieve their goals and bring order to their lives. Check out the latest episode of our Conversational Selling podcast to learn more about Adi.
In this episode, Nancy and Adi discuss the following:
- The importance of well-documented processes
- The process of mapping and documenting client processes
- Identifying pain points that signal the need for process documentation.
- The impact of documented processes on business efficiency and growth
- The role of process documentation in employee training and retention
- Adi’s unique team approach and company scaling
Key Takeaways:
- You will be surprised how many growing companies do not have processes and procedures in place.
- The adaptability that you have to have doesn’t mean the processes are bad.
- Don’t be afraid to start process documentation. Just start doing it. Don’t make it complex.
“The first thing that we do is we make sure that they have the mindset that processes and procedures will be used throughout the company. That’s number one. Number two is that we have to make sure that the documented procedures and processes are accessible and written in such a format that everybody can follow them. So that’s very important because if they are stored somewhere, nobody knows where it’s very hard to follow and implement them. Then, we have a rollout process. It’s a five-step rollout process, very specific, that intends to train everybody on those procedures and also make sure that there is buy-in and that every person understands the importance of having those processes documented. The next step after that is ensuring those processes are being utilized and used in day-to-day management. In terms of what we also do, we ensure that there are regular reviews of those processes and that regular review is either driven by time.” – ADI
“I think what sets us apart is that we have a strong team. And my idea is that you know, I can’t be a solo practitioner. I have a team—a team of writers, a team of consultants, marketing, and sales. You know, I feel like I need to walk the walk, not just talk the talk, right? And I managed to scale my company. I managed to increase it, to make it bigger. All of that allows us to take on more and more clients, and we continually improve our own processes. We want to deliver a great product for our clients, and we do. So that is pretty unique.” – ADI
“You know, I think it’s important to have well-documented processes and procedures that all follow. I think that is extremely important. It’s something that people should look at, and having somebody do it for you is going to make a huge difference. Because, as one of my clients just said—and again, you can also watch her video on our website—she said if she tried to do it herself, she would still be on procedure number four. And, you know, I hear it over and over again. So, in terms of expediting things and increasing the organization, I recommend that you document your processes and procedures. And if you need help, contact us.” – ADI.
“Processes and procedures are not boring; they can actually be pretty exciting because they give you freedom, you know? That’s another truism—it does give you freedom. And people sometimes think that it’s restrictive, especially creative people. They might think that having processes and procedures is a restrictive activity, but the truth is, it’s not. Because if you don’t have your processes and procedures well-documented, that’s restrictive because then you have to reinvent the wheel every single time.” – ADI
Connect with Adi Klevit:
Try Our Proven, 3-Step System, Guaranteeing Accountability and Transparency that Drives RESULTS by clicking on this link: https://oneofakindsales.com/call-center-in-a-box/
Connect with Nancy Calabrese:
Transcript
Voiceover: You’re listening to The Conversational Selling Podcast with Nancy Calabrese.
Nancy Calabrese: Hi, it’s Nancy Calabrese, and it’s time again for Conversational selling – the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today and it always starts with the human conversation. Today we’re speaking with Adi Klevit, CEO and founder of Business Success Consulting Group where they identify, create and document processes and procedures so the business can grow and scale. Adi’s 25 years of knowledge and experience as a trained industrial engineer, management consultant, and business executive give her a unique understanding of the challenges businesses face. Adi utilizes her practical know -how and wisdom to successfully help organizations and companies of any size dramatically improve their efficiency and performance. And finally, Adi can help virtually any business owner achieve their goals and bring order to their lives. Welcome to the show Adi, let’s get started.
Adi Klevit: Yes! Thank you, Nancy, I’m so happy to be here! [1:23]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, I mean, I love being on your podcast, so I couldn’t wait for us to do this. And, you know, I want to talk about your specialty and the importance of having systems in place and a process. I guess for starters, do you find many companies don’t have that in place?
Adi Klevit: You know, it, yeah, that is, that is the case. You know, we work with fast growing companies at the lacking consistency, and you will be surprised how many do not have those processes and procedures in place. [2:00]
Nancy Calabrese: Wow, you know, I’m really shocked and I know it’s important, right? Documentation, implementation. And so, describe how it’s important for all of us to have that.
Adi Klevit: Well, yeah, I mean, you know, if you think about it, look at a company, if they are growing, they’re adding more personnel, they are selling more, et cetera, and they don’t have the systems to support it, I mean, that can create problems. [2:30]
Nancy Calabrese: Right. I mean, do you find that the systems are the same from company to company or do they vary?
Adi Klevit: You know, there are basic systems that are very similar in terms of they all have to have HR systems. They all have to have cell systems, right? I mean, you are the expert at that. They all have to have marketing operations, quality control. There are definitely systems that are very similar, but the content can be different. [3:02]
Nancy Calabrese: Okay, and like how do you create the content then? When you engage a client, for instance, how do you take them through the process?
Adi Klevit: That’s a great question. So, what we do is the first thing that we do is we need to process map, basically create a map of all the processes that they have. So, we map their processes and then we decide where we’re going to start. Now we always like to start with the area that will give us the biggest return on investment. And that area, return investment, I judge it in terms of, or we qualify it in terms of. Of course, it’s money but it’s also maybe time that you are getting back. Maybe it’s…You know, like you have an employee that is coming on and you don’t have a way to train them. And if you had return on investment, you’ll be able to train them faster. And then they are not, they’re going to be able to stay longer. So, employee retention, it can be return on investment in terms of risk mitigation, whatever it is. Right. So, we decide where we’re going to start. And then what we do, we schedule a weekly meeting where we are going through the processes that we mapped and we extract information from each and every client, sorry, from each and every department or basically the processes that we want to document. We extract the information and then we write it. And then we provide it to the subject matter experts so they can review it, they can see, they can give us their opinion and anything that needs to be edited and then we repeat it until we have all the processes documented. Now we also help with process improvement and then we basically help the company to make sure that the processes are followed by all. [5:04]
Nancy Calabrese: Okay, how do you do that? How do you know it’s going to be consistently done?
Adi Klevit: Right, so we guide the company through it, right? So, the first thing that we do is we make sure that they have the mindset that processes and procedures are going to be used throughout the company. That’s number one. Number two is we have to make sure that the procedures, processes that were documented are accessible and are written in such a format that everybody can follow them. So that’s very important because if they are stored somewhere that nobody knows where, it’s very hard to follow them and it’s very hard to get them implemented. Then we have a rollout process. It’s actually a five -step rollout process, very specific, that intends to train everybody on those procedures and also make sure that there is buying, and every person really understands the importance of having those processes documented. The next step after that is we make sure those processes are actually being utilized and used in day -to -day management. And then we also ensure that those.
Nancy Calabrese: And how do you have to ensure that heavy? Sorry about that.
Adi Klevit: Good question but let me just say that like in terms of what we also do, we ensure that there is regular reviews of those processes and that regular review is either driven by time. So, every so often, like every six months, every year, every quarter, those processes are being reviewed or it’s driven by event if there are any changes, and those processes need to be changed. So, to answer your question on how we ensure that there is utilization of those processes. So whenever there are issues that happen in a company, we handle it by, you know, it’s always a people problem, a process problem or both, right? So, we guide the company and the stakeholders or the main stakeholders on how to identify whether it’s a issue, it’s a people problem, a process problem or both, and what steps to take in order to remedy what is happening. That’s one example. [7:15]
Nancy Calabrese: Okay, wow. I guess, you know, what I’m thinking as you’re speaking is what are some of the pain points companies are experiencing that let you know that they need your services?
Adi Klevit: Yeah. So, it’s a very good question. So, let’s say they are expanding. Okay. And they’re hiring people and let’s say, you know, you work with salespeople. So, let’s say it’s a construction company and then now hiring an estimator. Like the owner has been wearing that estimator hat and they go, okay, now I’m going to hire somebody new, but I don’t know what to do with them. I don’t know how to train them. I don’t know how, you know, how we’re going to explain to them everything that they need to be doing. Like, for example, I have a client right now that is hiring a project manager for the first time. He’s been being the project manager, but how do we actually teach the project manager what they need to do? So, we had to document everything and then train the project manager on how to do that work. So that, that is an example. [8:25]
Nancy Calabrese: Okay, wow. How long does it typically take for a company, for the light bulb to go off when you create all of these systems, then it’s running smoothly?
Adi Klevit: I think it’s pretty fast because the more order you put in, the more aha moments they will have in terms of the light bulb. Like, wow, yeah, that works. We need to put more and more order. So I think it can be pretty immediate. [8:55]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. How did you get involved in this? What piqued your interest in doing this kind of work?
Adi Klevit: When I was deciding on my major in college, I look at different options. And the thing that really interested me when I chose industrial engineering, it was the fact that it was a combination of science, which I was really good at, but also understanding human nature and helping people be more productive, more efficient, and increase basic productivity and efficiency. And that really interested me because I wanted to know how I can help people. I wanted to increase their success, and I wanted to combine also science and do something that has a good methodology to it. [9:47]
Nancy Calabrese: Wow. And you say that you can virtually help any kind of business in any industry. Do you do more work in one industry over another?
Adi Klevit: We’re pretty industry agnostic, so we have clients all over. We have clients that are in the trades. We have clients that are in manufacturing, professional services, even retail. So constructions, private practices, so definitely a variety. [10:20]
Nancy Calabrese: Wow. And do you do this nationwide or throughout the world?
Adi Klevit: I do it throughout the world as a matter of fact, I mean, definitely nationwide and also throughout the world. We have clients in the UK, clients in Australia. [10:35]
Nancy Calabrese: Wow, far reach, that is you. So, what is your unique idea that is different and sets you apart in your industry?
Adi Klevit: It’s a tough question in terms of, because I don’t know what other people, I mean, I know what I know about my us. And I think what sets us apart is that we have a strong team. And my idea is that, you know, I can’t be a solo practitioner. I have a team, I have a team of writers, I have a team of consultants, I have marketing sales. You know, I feel like I need to walk the walk, you know, not just talk the talk, right? And I managed to scale my company. I managed to increase it. I make it to make it bigger. I, we all that allows us to take more and more clients and we always improve, improve our own processes. We want to deliver a great product for our clients, and we do. So that is pretty unique. [11:41]
Nancy Calabrese: Wow, yeah, I would think so. And is there a story that you think the audience would find interesting?
Adi Klevit: Of course, you know, we have many case studies, like for instance, a client, if you want to look at the actual videos, you can go to our, on my LinkedIn, Adik Levit, if you look me up, there are plenty of testimonial videos in the clients onwards and it’s testimonials from the clients. Yeah, so one of the stories there is of a client that was able to sell his company for two times of what it was worth because he had well -documented processes and procedures. Another story is of a client that was able to reduce the onboarding time of new customer service representatives by 75 % because he had training materials. [12:33]
Nancy Calabrese: Wow.
Adi Klevit: Yeah, I know. There is another one of a client that was able to grow his company and was actually able to take a vacation for, he wasn’t able to take a vacation for so long and he was able to. Even today, I was talking to a client, and he was freaking out because he’s going to be two weeks with no phone in a retreat and no computer and no ability to communicate to his team. And, you know, they have great documented processes. His team. We really train them that it’s followed by all and ask them the questions. Okay. I understand you’re freaking out but tell me one specific thing that will happen that you anticipate that can happen while you’re gone. And he looked and he looked, and he looked, and he goes, nothing. It’s all going to be just fine. Nothing bad will happen. I can just leave. And that was amazing. That was an amazing win because three years ago it would have happened. [13:33]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, you know, it’s funny. I remember the first year I was able to take a vacation. It is freeing, right? You feel like, yes, I finally got there. But for years, you know, many years ago, I never took a vacation and didn’t work. So, I know that feeling. I mean, is there anything in particular you would like me to spotlight?
Adi Klevit: You know, I think it’s the importance of actually having well -documented processes and procedures that are followed by all. I think that is extremely important. It’s something that people should definitely look at and that doing it, having somebody do it for you is definitely going to make a huge difference. Because as one of my clients just said, and again, you can also watch her video on words. She said if she was actually trying to do it herself, she would still be on procedure number four. And, you know, and I hear it over and over again is so in terms of expediting things, in terms of increasing the organization, definitely recommend that you document your processes and procedures. And if you need help, contact us. [14:53]
Nancy Calabrese: Yep. Wow, yeah, you know, it’s always a good idea to engage with an expert in whatever you need to have done. I’m a big believer in outsourcing, as you know. So, what’s a fun fact about you that the audience should know?
Adi Klevit: You know, I am, I love the outdoors. I live in the Pacific Northwest, love the outdoors. I think it’s, it’s so important to balance, you know, activity, being active and going out and have your space, have your time. And I just love doing that. And I get my brightest and best ideas when I’m actually on a hike, when I’m outside. So, I love that. [15:44]
Nancy Calabrese: Do you bring a recorder with you, so you record it when it comes to you?
Adi Klevit: You know, it’s actually a great idea, I should. Well, I have my phone, so yes, but I think it’s a different thing. Yeah.
Nancy Calabrese: You know, it’s so funny, you know, now I’m hating myself because I used to have a recorder next to my, on my nightstand. If I couldn’t sleep and I thought of something, I would like talk to it. And it always at least reminded me of the idea because then I go to sleep and forget it. So now we have fun.
Adi Klevit: You know, that’s a great, yeah, I heard it from different people, and I think it’s definitely a great, great idea.
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, yeah. So, tell me something that’s true that almost nobody agrees with you on.
Adi Klevit: that processes and procedures are not a boring activity, that it actually can be pretty exciting. [16:43]
Nancy Calabrese: Okay. How so?
Adi Klevit: Because it gives you freedom, you know? That’s another truism, it does give you freedom. And people think that sometimes it’s restrictive, especially people that are creative, they might think that having processes and procedures is a restrictive activity. But the truth is, it’s not. Because if you don’t have your processes and procedures well documented, that’s restrictive because then you have to reinvent the wheel every single time. [17:13]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, true. What about our personal lives? Do you recommend having that for our personal lives?
Adi Klevit: I’m a firm believer in it. What about you? What do you think?
Nancy Calabrese: Well, you know, I think we’re all creatures of habit and I think it’s more in my head than documented.
Adi Klevit: Yeah, I mean, that’s why I tell people it’s like you, yeah, it is in your head, but you do it. Like I tell people, you know, you all have a process. You know, when you wake up in the morning and you make tea or drink water or make coffee, you know, there are not a lot of people that will vary it every single day. They probably have their process, right? I mean, when you go grocery shopping, you have your process. You know, even if you go online, you know, you go, I’ll start with this and this and that, or even the processes go to you. You know, shopping cart online. I mean, we select everything that you want and then add additional things, whatever it is. It’s a process. Now, you know, you must have, I mean, like everything in life, you shouldn’t do anything to excess. Right. I mean, you know, I’m not talking here about being like obsessive with order. And if something, see, that’s the thing. If something, let’s say it goes wrong, then, then you just freak out and you can move on. No, you must flow with it. Okay. So, you have a process of doing so. Let’s say you have a process of making coffee, but your coffee machine is broken. So don’t freak out about it. Go to your coffee shop down the street and buy coffee and then go fix it or buy a new one. So, it’s that adaptability that you have to have, but it doesn’t mean the processes are bad, right? I mean, for me, I know that I say, I want time to do the things that I like, right? I want time to read books. I want time to volunteer in the community. I want time to go outdoors but I want also time to complete all my tasks. And what I find is that I can cut down time by having processes. [19:07]
Nancy Calabrese: Wow, wow, I totally agree with you. You know, we’re up in time and let me ask you one final question. What is one takeaway you’d like to leave the audience with?
Adi Klevit: that don’t be afraid from starting process documentation. Just start doing it. Don’t make it complex. Don’t make it like something that you have to wait one day. You will get to it just right now. Sit down in front of your computer. Find something that you are going, okay, I want to now document my sales process and write a few steps on how you sell. That is your sales process and call Nancy, of course, so she can help you with the sales process. But you know, you can definitely.
Nancy Calabrese: And if I can’t answer that, I’m going to refer you to Adi.
Adi Klevit: That’s right. So, we’re all going to collaborate here, but it’s true. You know, just start, do something, you know, don’t go into this analysis paralysis thing because it just doesn’t work. [20:07]
Nancy Calabrese: I agree. Listen, folks, listen to this lady. So, for any of you out there that are frustrated because you don’t know how to train or as Adi mentioned, you know, you have a new employee, you’re switching roles and you don’t have a system in place, really take advantage of Adi’s expertise. She’ll get your business straight. And if you have any issues on a personal level, she can help you with that. So, Adi, thanks so much for spending time with us today. In the future, perhaps you can come back, and we can expand on this. And for everyone out there, make it an awesome systems day. And by the way, a sales day too. We’ll see you next time. [20:58]
