We Love Cold Calling!

Laurel Bernstein | How Active Listening Can Help You Sell More Effectively

by | Oct 20, 2020 | Podcast

On this week’s episode of Conversational Selling, we sit down with Laurel Bernstein, Founder and President of Laurel Bernstein and Associates, a consulting and training firm providing performance and leadership skill training for business professionals. Laurel has an extensive background as a facilitator and trainer and aims to be able to help and advise business owners on their business models and team development.

“I spent the first 25 years of my life as a painfully shy person; in groups I rarely had anything to say. But, I started to study listening skills and learned that you don’t have to be born a good listener, it’s actually a skill you can learn. So, I became a student of listening, and as a result, I would hear and observe things that people didn’t even realize. I realized that I knew a lot more about what was going on in a room than the people who were participating,” says Laurel.

We chat about what sets Laurel apart from others in her field, as well as:

  • How active listening can help you sell more effectively
  • Her tips for keeping sales skills sharp
  • Why every conversation is a negotiation
  • What makes someone successful in sales
  • And more

Listen now…

Mentioned in this episode:

 

Transcript

Nancy Calabrese: Hi everybody and welcome to Conversational Selling. It’s the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today. And it all starts with the human conversation. I’m your host, Nancy Calabrese, and it’s fantastic to have with me today, Laurel Bernstein, the founder and president of Laurel Bernstein and Associates, a consulting and training firm providing performance and leadership skill training for business professionals.

She has an extensive background as a highly effective facilitator and trainer. Laurel advises many companies helping owners evaluate their business model and team development. And she has the astounding ability to listen in ways most of us don’t. And I can’t wait to hear more about that. Laurel is a staple here at One of a Kind Sales. We couldn’t live without her. Thanks so much for joining us today, Laurel.

Laurel Bernstein: Well, Nancy, as I said, I’m honored because you have a high standard.

Nancy: Oh, okay. Well, I guess I’ve been accused of worse before, right?

Laurel: No, but thank you. I’m really delighted to be here. And I’m really delighted to talk to you more about the importance of listening, especially in sales.

Nancy: Sure. You know, you and I have gotten to know each other over the years. And, you know, I’m always amazed at your successful career and in your wealth of knowledge. I mean, any question I have, you have an answer for, you’re my go-to for everything. I’m just curious, you spent many years in corporate. What made you leave to become a certified executive coach?

Why Laurel Chose to Leave Her Job and Start Her Own Coaching Firm

Laurel: The reason I left is that two or three years before I actually did leave, I started to think about what am I going to do next. And I had made an entire career of being in charge, always in charge of something. And I really wanted to think about my next act. And I didn’t want to be let go like people were being let go after long careers.

So I wanted to plan my own exit. And so I had always been advising senior leaders, so decided to go to business school to become a certified executive coach. And fortunately, the company that I was working for allowed me to have five or six internal clients so that I could get good at what I was doing. And once I got good, I decided I want to do, instead of saving the company I was working for millions of dollars, maybe I wanted to go out on my own and make millions of dollars.

Nancy: Hey, I like that thinking. And I’ll take that any day. Now that, you know, obviously, when you hear the word executive coach, what comes to my mind is you work in a highly saturated space. And again, I know firsthand, you’re amazing. But what unique idea, sets what you do apart from the others?

Laurel: So to be very honest, I spent the first 25 years of my life as a painfully shy person. I would be in groups of even as little as three or 33 and I would never say anything. I very rarely had anything to say. And I wasn’t even uncomfortable about it. But because I was watching and listening and hearing, seeing people roll their eyes and I became so good at listening.

So I started to study listening skills and learned that you don’t have to be born a good listener. It’s actually a skill you can learn. So I became a student of listening. And as a result, I would hear things that weren’t there and I would hear and observe things that people didn’t even realize. And I realized that I knew a lot more about what was going on in the room than the people participating.

Nancy: Wow. You know, and in sales, as you know, it requires a lot of skills. But one of the most important skill, I think the most important skill is the people’s ability to listen. And you’ve often told me and my team that I’m trained to listen differently. How is that? You know, I want to know more. I’m sure my audience does.

A Different Approach to Listening

Laurel: Okay. So this is really important to understand. And I’m going to give you a little background story. I went to a networking event. We were sitting around a big table and there were 17 people, including myself. And when I have people introduce themselves, I like to go first because otherwise, I’m sitting here at the table, practicing what I’m going to say and practicing what I’m going to say and then I’m not listening to anybody else. So I sat in the spot where I could go first.

But unfortunately, the leader started elsewhere in the room. So I decided I was going to write one thing down about each person in the room. Just one thing that was outstanding that I would want to remember. And then when it got to me, I was the last person, I went around the room and I said to each person, I’m going to tell you what I remembered from your presentation and then you’re going to tell me if that’s what you want to be remembered for. And if you don’t want to be remembered for that, you get to do a do-over.

So, out of 17 people, there were nine people who did do-overs because truthfully, I was the only one in that room that was listening. Everybody else was preparing what they had to say. It was pretty obvious when they said what they had to say but they hadn’t heard anything that happened before. And I really, as a result, wound up with two clients in that room that signed up to my active listening workshop.

Nancy: Wow. I mean, that’s pretty amazing. So can you talk to us more about that workshop? What’s it like?

Laurel: All right, so I’m going to give you sort of like an intro so that you can feel what the workshop is like. One of the first things that I do is I said, say, we’re not going to introduce ourselves. So what we’re going to do is we’re going to talk about our favorite room, and it needs to have texture and color and function. And why you love it, why it is your favorite room. It doesn’t even have to be a room in your home. It could be your deck, it could be a room that you stayed in at the Biltmore Hotel.

It could be any room that just was perfect for you that you love. And so we go around the room and everybody does that. And what I then do is I asked them one at a time to tell me one thing that they know about every other person in the room without repeating something they said. So in other words, if they said, I have a red couch in my living room that’s so furry and comfortable, and I stretch out on it every night after dinner, you can’t say any of those words.

You have to say something about the person you learned from hearing the things they said. So what we’re looking for is, well, you know, she knows how to unwind because lying on the couch was unwinding. It wasn’t about that Nancy has a red couch, it was that she got a place to lie down in her favorite room where she knows how to unwind. And so all the attributes of a person come out when they’re talking about something they care about. And if you’re really listening, you can know them.

Nancy: Wow. So how long does it take to develop a skill like that?

Laurel: My workshop is nine sessions. They’re an hour and 15 minutes each. Usually, you press to really materialize around session number four. And I have to admit that there are occasionally some people that get all the way through the program and they still are unable to listen to cutely. They are better, but they don’t really learn how to listen with a third year.

Nancy: Right. So let’s talk about what you do and how it would benefit people in sales.

If You’re Talking, You’re not Learning

Laurel: So, people in general like to talk about themselves. They are, if you ask somebody tell me something about yourself, they like to do that. And so if you’re talking, you’re not learning anything about them because they’re not talking. I would think that in a sales situation, the more you knew about a person, the better the conversation will be. And if you really want to know, you have to listen.

And you have to keep prompting them. One of my favorite books of all times, Tell Me More. And that was just something that in a conversation, a woman would say over and over again, tell me more. And it would really allow somebody to really tell you what they need. And then from a sales perspective, then when you hear what they need, you can then tell them you understand that and that you can provide that for them in a way that they can receive it because they’ve just told you they need it.

Nancy: Yeah. So is this the kind of training, you know, I know, there were a training programs people invest in, and then maybe they’ll do it, right? For a period of time. What is your recommendation to keep your skills sharp? Again, in sales, I think it’s the most important skill. So do you have any techniques or any go-to places you would recommend people spend time each week and just, you know, revisit or learn new techniques?

Laurel: So what I can explain which can be recreated very easily at the end of the workshop, we define what areas of listening people are still struggling with. And then what we do is we have one final videotaping of each person’s listening skills test. And we have them do it over and over and over again until the skill is built. We’ve provided a way for them to do that on a regular basis until it gels for them. The listening skills requires another person to practice and that’s what we provide.

Nancy: Okay, and you do this, you can do this virtually?

Laurel: Oh, yeah, it’s better done virtually, actually because then you can record the visual.

Nancy: Okay, so generally speaking, what do you think makes a person more or less successful in sales?

Every Conversation is a Negotiation

Laurel: So I think that one of the things that is one of the most important things is that they don’t ever sell, they need to know that every single conversation you have with another human being in a negotiation. So you want to go to a movie with, or you want to choose a movie to download with a friend. So you say, What do you feel like watching? Do you want to do a rom com? Do you want to do a shoot em up?

You want adventure? Do you want to do sci-fi? You’re negotiating, right? Well, I really thought I wanted to do this. Well, I heard that wasn’t so good. And it goes back and forth and back and forth as a negotiation. Every conversation that any two people have is a negotiation. So I think salespeople from listening, can benefit so much because they are hearing what they need to hear to negotiate effectively.

Nancy: Yeah. And, you know, when you really pay attention and understand what they need, they are pretty much telling you how to sell them, right? by listening and letting them talk. And we love that phrase here, tell me more. We use it all the time and just try to keep quiet. I think there’s a stat 70% of the time, prospects should be talking, 30% of the time we should be talking. So I think this is really amazing. And frankly, I haven’t heard of a program like this. You may have just answered this, but I’m going to ask you this anyway. Tell me something that’s true that nobody agrees with you on.

Laurel: Well, that every conversation is a negotiation. It’s hard for people to think that they’re doing it all the time. And I’ve never really gotten anybody to say yeah, I guess you’re right. But I did, you know, I did think it through and it really, that’s how it comes out. Every interaction.

Nancy: Wow. I know that you and I spoke earlier about how you quote your father, and it’s endearing. And I saw something on your LinkedIn profile talking about the forcers and the unforcers. And I wonder if we could just tie it into what we’ve been talking about.

Forcers vs Unforcers

Laurel: Well, absolutely. Let me give you a quick summary of the story that I wrote. My father believes that the room, the dichotomy that he lives by were the people who forced things and the people who were patient and would keep things calmer. And his example was that if you are trying to get a light bulb out of the ceiling lamp, and doesn’t come out easily, the person who is a forcer, is going to grab it and turn it and the bolt could break in their hands.

And more than not, they get hurt. But the person who is patient and waits, wiggles it a little bit, turns it off, thinking maybe if it pulls down a little bit it’ll come out easier. And they almost never make a mistake. And I think in sales, it’s the same kind of thing. If you’re trying to force a sale, uh oh, I don’t, nobody likes to feel that. Nobody wants to be on the receiving end of something that’s being forced at them. But if you’re gentle and you’re listening, and you’re waiting to see what a person needs and you really hear them, the patient person will come out on the right side of the sale.

Nancy: Awesome. Yep, I completely agree with you. So what’s the one takeaway you’d like to leave the audience with?

Laurel: Alright, so there’s this program called StoryCorps, started 17 years ago by a fella named Robert Isay. And what you can do is go into a booth, they started in Grand Central Station in New York, and you could go with a grandparent or a parent or spouse and interview them. And the interview would be stored in the Library of Congress. And after 17 years, now you can do it online. You can do it with your cousin in California.

And these interviews are golden. They’re just beautiful. And they interviewed Robert Isay about on the 10th anniversary to ask him what he learned from starting StoryCorps, and he said, first of all, I learned that listening is an act of love. And then he said, I also learned that when you’re talking, you’re only telling people what you know. But when you’re listening, you’re learning something new.

Nancy: Oh, wow. Laurel, I’m sure my audience wants to reach out to you. How can they find you?

Laurel: They can find me at www.laurelbernstein.com or laurel@laurelBernstein.com.

Nancy: Wonderful. Another great conversation with Laurel Bernstein. I highly recommend to any of you out there, if you have interest in what we’ve just discussed and she shared with us, be sure to reach out to Laurel. My team and I are going to participate in this active listening workshop. We can’t wait to get started. And additionally, for those that might have an interest in relying on a professional to turn to who’s got the answers for everything, I highly recommend. Laurel. Thank you so much for coming on today.

Laurel: Well, thank you. I really had fun. This is great.

Active Listening – it’s more than just ‘hearing’ what your prospect is saying!

by | Oct 8, 2019 | Best Sales Practices, Cold Calling Tips

At One of a Kind Sales, we spend a LOT of time training our people to ACTIVELY LISTEN. Picking up the phone and dialing MAY get you to the right person but active listening is the real secret to setting qualified appointments and sales success! 

Can you hear me? 

A basic Cold Calling requirement is being able to HEAR the prospect. That means setting yourself up so there is no background noise or music to distract you and having a headset with adequate volume controls. Close all your extraneous browser windows and shut off your personal phone so you are not tempted to check email, texts or social media.  

It’s not just hearing them… 

ACTIVE listening involves more than just HEARING what your prospect is saying. It means UNDERSTANDING what is being said, and oftentimes, being able to hear and understand the UNSPOKEN context. Actively listening will enable you to ‘hear’ the prospect’s body language through the tone, volume and words they are using. It means noticing shifts in that tone or changes in the volume and then modulating your own tone and words in response. 

Active listening involves paying attention to what is said and using the prospect’s responses to formulate your own statements.  

Active listening tactics 

We recommend a number of tactics to do this: 

  • Paraphrasing – which is where you restate some of the prospects replies but in your own words.  
  • Summarizing – where you provide a summary of the process or discussion to give an overview and context. 
  • Clarification – where you restate and/or explain things to make sure you are all on the same page. ASK for clarification on a point or statement to keep the prospect talking about their issues. 
  • Reflection – where you reflect the prospect’s words back to them to help them understand what you are hearing. 

Note that ALL of the above require you to have HEARD not just the prospect’s words but the intentions behind those words. Pay attention, listen carefully and you will be rewarded with valuable insights and you will, more importantly, earn their trust! They can tell when you are listening and will appreciate that you have HEARD them.  

Resources 

Because we know that ACTIVE LISTENING is such an important skill, we have collected many useful resources on this topic. Here are a few articles and videos we think can help YOU improve YOUR active listening skills: 

Jordan Ledwein: Optimizing Sales Through AI

by | Oct 23, 2024 | Podcast

About Jordan Ledwein: Jordan Ledwein helps companies and sales teams improve efficiency and effectiveness through proven systems, processes, and technology. Widely known as The AI Sales Guy, Jordan is passionate about sharing his insights and proven best practices for AI- and automation-based selling to help sales professionals achieve new heights of success. After graduating from Clemson with a degree in Economics in 2017, Jordan took on a technical sales position with a manufacturing and engineering company. But almost 15 years after first listening to Sandler CDs in the back of his dad’s car, Jordan rejoined Sandler full-time at the beginning of 2022. His focus within Sandler shifted to AI & automation as he realized the potential impact it could have on their own business and their current clients. With the release of ChatGPT in late 2022, Jordan decided it was time to start sharing what he had learned about AI and how he was using it in his selling process. He started by creating a newsletter on LinkedIn, The AI Sales Guy, then moved on to international Sandler webinars & podcasts. He began creating content for Sandler and has now created a sales-focused AI Automation Agency – Sell Smarter. His passion is to help others learn how to combine a proven sales methodology, AI, and automation to help them become more efficient and successful. Check out the latest episode of our Conversational Selling podcast to learn more about Jordan.

In this episode, Nancy and Jordan discuss the following:

  • Understanding commission-only sales
  • Jordan Ledwein’s experience in using AI to enhance sales processes
  • How AI tools, like Humantic and Clay, help personalize and scale sales efforts
  • The importance of optimizing sales systems before integrating AI
  • Misconceptions about AI’s role in sales – it assists but doesn’t replace human effort
  • A case study showing AI improving productivity and quote acceptance rates
  • The integration of Sandler methodology with AI platforms like HubSpot

Key Takeaways: 

  • People want AI to be the easy button, but instead, think of it as, “How can it make me twice as efficient?”.
  • I think of AI that way, where it’s assisting what we’re doing, not replacing what we’re doing.
  • What’s coming with Apple intelligence will probably be the most significant improvement we’ve seen with AI since chat GPTs were released.
  • When it comes to building an AI-powered process, it doesn’t happen overnight.

“Ialways talk about one of my first experiences with AI—it was with just a Google Home in my apartment, allowing me to turn on my lights or do simple things around the house. It started on a very personal level, and I just enjoyed playing around with it. I used a few different sales tools early on, even before ChatGPT was released, that incorporated some AI into them. I was amazed by how much time they saved me and how they improved my workflow and efficiency. Then, when ChatGPT was released, probably the week after it came out, I realized this was where things were heading. I researched AI and learned how to use it in my sales process. I also began explaining it to people in my network on LinkedIn and to clients in different professional contexts, helping them understand its potential as well.” – JORDAN

“A couple of different ways, and I’ll do a webinar for Sandler. I don’t even know if I’ve mentioned this to you, Nancy, but I’ll be doing a webinar later in August of this year. I’m not sure if this will get up before or after that, but for Sandler and how we’re using AI to bridge the gap, that is what we’re saying between the methodology and the technology. The DISC portion is one way that we’re doing it. Another big way is through HubSpot, right? What we’re doing at SalesLift is building Sandler’s methodology into HubSpot in the form of tools, playbooks, process sequences and properties, and all these different things. So, that’s one thing we’re doing that’s been successful, and it’s exciting to see how that has grown over the last year or two. But we’re also adding in other tools, right? So, another tool we’re starting to use is Attention AI. Attention AI is another note-taker, similar to Fathom, Sybil, Otter, or whatever people use nowadays. But we’ve paid attention to that and customized it to Sandler’s methodology. So, it talks about the pains, investment criteria, and decision-making process we discussed on this call. And for those of you familiar with Sandler, those are the three pieces we look for to qualify for an opportunity. So, attention takes that exact transcript and pulls any of those pieces out of the call. Then, when we build a HubSpot that’s kind of Sandler optimized, it has the same properties as HubSpot. So, we can actually use attention, and it pushes that deal information right into HubSpot so that reps using both don’t even have to update their deals. These tools are doing it for them. It’s making Sandler in the flow of work is kind of the terminology that we’re using, but also just making it so the tools can easily help us apply this process and just really power everything.” – JORDAN

“I think the one thing I’ve been saying, and I think I can still say it for now, is that it’s still really early with AI. I know many people are a little hesitant about the idea, and I don’t blame them for that, honestly. I can be a little bit hesitant about the idea myself. But I’d rather understand how to use it, how not to use it, use it effectively, use it safely, use it ethically—all of those things. Just starting somewhere to learn how to use it is the best thing you can do. It could be ChatGPT or one of these simple AI programs that just help you create dinner recipes, create a procedure or document, or something like that. I mean, it doesn’t have to be that complex. But the better you understand how to use it, the more set up you will be for the future, both professionally and personally. So, just start somewhere.” – JORDAN

Connect with Jordan Ledwein:

Try Our Proven, 3-Step System, Guaranteeing Accountability and Transparency that Drives RESULTS by clicking on this link: https://oneofakindsales.com/call-center-in-a-box/

Connect with Nancy Calabrese: 

Voiceover: You’re listening to The Conversational Selling Podcast with Nancy Calabrese.

Nancy Calabrese: Hi, it’s Nancy Calabrese, and it’s time again for Conversational selling – the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today. And it’s always starting with the human conversation. Today we’re speaking with Jordan Ledwein, a Sandler sales trainer and coach, as well as a co -founder at Sales Lift a sales technology enablement agency. He focuses on helping companies and sales teams improve their efficiency and effectiveness through proven systems, processes, and technology. He’s been at the forefront of integrating AI into sales, inspired by the launch of ChatGPT in late 2022. From his popular LinkedIn newsletter, the AI sales guide to global webinars and his new agency, Sell Smarter, Jordan’s mission is clear: Blend traditional sales tactics with next gen tech to help teams sell smarter. Welcome to the show, Jordan. I’m so excited to have you here.

Jordan Ledwein: Hey, Nancy. Yeah, thanks for having me on. I’ve been looking forward to this and diving into this conversation. I think we’ll have a lot of fun, especially with your focus on sales and marketing and how all this kind of plays together here. [1:41]

Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, really. And so, for everyone out there, I saw Jordan speak at the Sandler Summit this past year and what he has shared with the audience there is eye -opening. So, look, it’s all about AI these days. Why is that?

Jordan Ledwein: You know, I think it’s an exciting topic. think there’s a lot of curiosity around it. Everyone’s still trying to figure out what’s going on. you know, with that, there’s a lot of cool things happening. There’s a lot of misconceptions and ever in between. I think the world’s kind of just trying to figure it all out and figure out, you know, how does this apply in what I’m doing, whether it’s in a personal or professional setting. And I think that there’s a lot of companies who have been able to kind of use some of this new technology to do some pretty creative some pretty creative things. it’s been fun to keep up with, but I do still think it’s still early. So, there’s plenty left to see happen and unfold in front of us. So I’m excited to see what that looks like. [2:41]

Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. How did you get involved with it?

Jordan Ledwein:  You know, it’s funny. I always talk about one of my first experiences with AI was with just a Google Home and having it in my apartment and being able to turn on my lights with it or just do simple things around my house. So, it was on a very just personal setting. I just enjoyed playing around with it and used a couple of different sales tools early on. Even before chat, GPT was released that incorporated some AI into it and was just amazed with how they saved me time and how they just improve my workflow and what I was doing from an efficiency standpoint. And then when I saw Chat GPT get released, I think it was probably the week after it came out, I just really realized this is where it’s going. And I kind of went all in on the AI front and really started to understand and create ways to use AI in my own sales process and really just tried to explain that to the people in my network on LinkedIn and our clients in different contexts I have professionally to help them kind of understand it as well. [3:44]

Nancy Calabrese: Right. Wow. So how do you apply AI to sales?

Jordan Ledwein: The million-dollar question. You know, it’s funny because I have people come up to me after I give a talk and they say, you know, Jordan, how do I do this? Or where do I start is usually the first question. Where do I start? And people aren’t going to like this. But my answer is typically I have no idea. Not for you specifically, because the problem is there’s not a silver bullet or a one size fits all solution. think it gets very specific to each company because we’re all selling different things. We all have different customers. We all have different companies that we’re working with. So with the amount of AI applications out there and AI software and all of that, it can get very, very niched down to where you may use one tool and it saves you a ton of time, but the company right next to you uses a different one and it saves them a ton of time. I think a lot of it just comes down to really understanding, OK, where am I spending maybe an excessive amount of time or energy in my current sales process, what’s taking up my time, and where can I start to apply AI or even just other automation or general technology to help that process? And that’s what I’m kind of trying to get across is you can apply any AI tool to your process, but if your process isn’t built to be giving good results, then you’re just going to get poor results faster. Right, so you got to build the process and then figure out how to use AI and other technology to really make it as efficient as possible. [5:18]

Nancy Calabrese: Okay. So can you give us an example? For instance, AI and identifying maybe DISC profiles, any or another example that might make sense to the audience.

Jordan Ledwein: Yeah, yeah, happy to. So, I think there’s a lot for those of us in the Sandler world and in the sales world, is something we use all the time, right? Similar to Myers -Briggs for those who are unfamiliar with it but understanding what’s the personality or communication style of someone else. And from a Sandler perspective, we’ve tried to that for 40 or 50 years. And we’ve had to do that by talking and understanding and saying, do they fit into this category or that category or what traits or tendencies do they show? And you can figure that out eventually, but it takes some practice and some and now there are AI tools available like Humantic AI and even a couple others in that category that will actually predict someone’s personality style from LinkedIn. And just give you an idea. And it might not be perfect yet. I think it’s getting closer. But I think it helps us apply some of this methodology. Another one is in the lead gen front. There’s a tool called Clay that’s making a ton of noise just the functionality and features that it has to incorporate AI right into a process. And Clay is essentially to break it down as simplistically as possible. It’s almost like Excel, but you can power it with AI and integrate a ton of different things into it. So, you can quickly look through a list of 50 or 100 people and see if it fits your ideal client profile or use their LinkedIn summary to create a one sentence opener or a lot of different things and you can do this at scale to where you can have a one sentence opener for an email for 50 or 100 people in a matter of a couple of minutes. So, you can do personalization at scale. And there’s a lot of different things like that that can be applied in lot of different ways, even as simple as some of these AI note takers that people are adding to calls. I talk about those a lot just because of the impact it made on my sales process. I I’m saving hundreds of hours, if not more, a year just by that one category of tools. So, I think you just got to figure out what are you doing, what are you doing a lot, and where can AI really be applied here. [7:38]

Nancy Calabrese: Wow. Now what are you said earlier there were misconceptions. What are some of the misconceptions.

Jordan Ledwein: Yeah, no, that’s a question. think there’s a lot of different types out there, but I think we’re all learning a lot about it as time goes on, right? So, things that we thought weren’t true six months ago, we’re finding out are today. So, it’s very fluid. I think that people want AI to be the easy button, right? Or the, hey, let me just let the AI do it and I can kind of sit back and relax or go on vacation or whatever it might be that they’re doing. But I think instead of thinking about from that perspective, I like to think of it as how can it make me twice as efficient, right? So, this hour I’m spending, instead of doing five emails or five whatever, I can do 10. Or instead of spending two hours doing this, I can spend one hour doing it. And I think it’s about how do we make ourselves as efficient as possible? And it might not be that it completely does this task for us, but it just makes it that much easier to do. So, I think of it that way to where it’s assisting what we’re doing, not replacing what we’re doing. [8:48]

Nancy Calabrese: Wow. Is there a story that the audience would find interesting as it relates to your experience with AI?

Jordan Ledwein: Yeah, there’s probably a couple of different ones. But I think one that people would find quite interesting is that it doesn’t happen overnight. It happens one tool at a time. And so, when it comes to building an AI -powered process, typically, once you get to the end and you’re like, OK, this is where I want to be, when you look back, it’s not like you can say, this is when it happened, or that’s when it happened. I think it just happens gradually or over time. One of the companies that we’re building some different tools and processes for, one of them is HubSpot. They kind of started from nothing. It was a $15 million company in the construction industry. And they’re running mainly on Excel and email and very manual processes. And so, when we were able to just go and install something as simple as HubSpot and some of the tools that HubSpot has, and for those of you who are unfamiliar to a CRM platform, as well as a lot of different things, but it helped them get their quotes out. They said 40 % faster. And just because of how much easier it was to sign their quotes through this process, they said they probably had 20 % higher acceptance of quotes or signing of quotes than before they had these systems, right? And that’s not even talking about AI. That’s really just simple technology and just making the process easier, not only for the company, but also for the clients that you’re working with make it easier for them to buy your products or services. That’s I think really what it’s about at end of the day. [10:30]

Nancy Calabrese: Wow. You know, I want to go back to AI and Sandler. Any specific, we talked about DISc, but how else do you apply AI to Sandler methodology?

Jordan Ledwein: Yeah, good question. A couple of different ways, and I’ll actually be doing a webinar for Sandler. don’t even know if I’ve mentioned this to you, Nancy, but I’ll be doing a webinar later in August of this year. I’m not sure if this will get up before or after that, but for Sandler and how we’re using AI to kind of bridge the gap is what we’re saying between the methodology and the technology. The DISC portion is one way that we’re doing it. Another big way is through HubSpot, right? What we’re doing at SalesLift, a lot of that is building Sandler’s methodology into HubSpot in the form of tools, in the form of playbooks, in the form of processes and sequences and properties and all these different things. So that’s one thing that we’re doing that’s been successful and it’s exciting to see how that has grown over the last year or two. But we’re also adding in other tools, right? So, another tool is Attention AI that we’re starting to use. And Attention AI is another note taker similar to Fathom or Sybil or Otter or whatever it is that people are using nowadays. But we’ve taken attention and customized that to Sandler’s methodology. So, it talks about what are the pains, the investment criteria, and the decision-making process that we talked about on this call. And for those of you who are familiar with Sandler, those are the three pieces that we look for to qualify an opportunity. So, what attention does is it actually takes that exact transcript it pulls out any of those pieces out of the call. And then when we build a HubSpot that’s kind of Sandler optimized, it has those same exact properties in HubSpot. So, we can actually use attention. And it pushes that deal information right into HubSpot so that reps that are using both don’t even have to actually update their deals. These tools are doing it for them. it’s making Sandler in the flow of work is kind of the terminology that we’re using, but also just making it so. The tools can easily help us apply this process and just really power everything. [12:48]

Nancy Calabrese: Well, so is the, I guess integration with Sandler and HubSpot, is that live? And if so, how do you access that? Because I have HubSpot.

Jordan Ledwein: Yeah, Yeah, good question. So SalesLift, what we do there is that integration essentially, right? So, we have kind of templated versions of HubSpot that we can implement for companies that are some of the basic tools and things that we talk about at Sandler. But a lot of what we also do is more of the custom implementations of HubSpot for companies. Some of them are new to HubSpot. Some of them have had HubSpot for a while and they just feel like they could be getting more out of the platform because it’s hard with a tool like HubSpot to really feel like you understand it because there’s so much you can do with it. It’s growing every day too. So, we kind of take it and what we do is we help a company essentially wireframe and build out their sales process. So, what process do you use to take someone from a new lead all the way to a closed deal? And then what are the steps in that process? And we help companies build that together with some of our sales expertise and background as well as knowledge on HubSpot. And then we can help create reports and dashboards. So, something as simple as creating a property that says lead source. And then you start to track all the deals that you’re getting by the lead source. And then at the end of the year, you can say, hey, I got 15 new deals from lead source A, but lead source B, I only got five new deals. Maybe I should spend more time and money on resource A or lead source A. So, you can really start to make strategic decisions about it your sales process becomes that much more effective and easier to follow when it’s in the technology that you’re using. So that’s some of the stuff that we’re doing. And if anyone has more questions about that, they’re more than welcome to reach out to me via LinkedIn or email or whatever makes sense. [14:41]

Nancy Calabrese: Sure. Tell us about Sell Smarter.

Jordan Ledwein: Yeah, so sell smarter is kind of the brand really that ties together sales lift and in Sandler. And that’s where I focus a lot of my stuff on like the AI sales guy and different things there. And it’s it’s more of a brand than anything that I I’m just trying to figure out how to how to take this concept of AI and really break it down and simplify it. And I think it’s it’s a linkage between the technology that we’re using at, you know, sales lift that we’re seeing in the world today with AI, as well as kind of the psychology of sales and just humans in general. What’s the gap between those and how do we connect those two to understand? How do people buy? How should we sell? Then how can we use technology to help us accomplish those things? So that’s a lot of just the newsletters I put out on a regular basis and the content that I create and the talks that I do and the different things there to just kind of try and help people understand what’s going on currently with AI, as well as learn myself, you know, what’s on the cutting edge so I can stay there and help others get there. [15:52]

Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, so how do we access your newsletter?

Jordan Ledwein: So, if you go on LinkedIn, that’s a great way to find me and see kind of the stuff that I put out. You can also go to theaisalesguide .com and that’ll redirect you to a bunch of different links that I put together. And I think the top one on that page is my LinkedIn newsletter. So that’s a great place to go and kind of see my newsletter or webinars I’ve done or podcasts I’m going to do and different things there. [16:19]

Nancy Calabrese: Right. Huh. So, tell me something that you believe is true that almost nobody agrees with you on.

Jordan Ledwein: This could be an interesting one. I think, and this is going to be a prediction, so I might come back and recant this in two months. I think what’s coming with Apple intelligence is going to be probably the biggest improvement we’ve seen with AI since chat GPTs released. And I say that because I think it’s going to make it that much more accessible for the average and I think that’s a lot about, or a lot of what this is about is just accessibility, right? AI has been around for 10 or 20 years or more, right? But what chat GPT did was made it more accessible for the average person, right? And I think with Apple and iOS 18 and the releases they’re planning with Siri, they’re just making chat GPT and a more powerful version of Siri that much more accessible, right? And so we’re talking about simple things, complex things to where you could get a text from a family member that says, hey, my flight’s landing at this time. And what they’re saying Siri’s going to be able to do is you can just say, hey, Siri, what time is my brother landing? And it’s going to go and search the text from your brother. It’s going to take the flight information and look it up online. You’re going to say, hey, is it early, on time, delayed? And it’s going to send you the flight information. Simple things like that, but just making things that much easier for us to accomplish. [17:54]

Nancy Calabrese: Right. So, are we living in the world of the Jetsons?

Jordan Ledwein: Without watching all of the episodes required to know the answer or not, I’d say maybe. I’d say maybe. We’re getting closer, that’s for sure. I think a lot of the things that were probably portrayed on that show, we’ve already had actually for a few years, and we could get in the next couple of years. But what I will say is it’s happening quickly. [18:20]

Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, the only thing that we don’t have are the flying cars.

Jordan Ledwein: Yeah, I’m not going to make a prediction on when that’s happening, but I’m not going to hold my breath on that either. [18:31]

Nancy Calabrese: No, no, no, no, I’ll take my time. So, look, this has just been fascinating. And I told you it would be and that we would go with the flow. I guess two questions. What is the one takeaway you want to leave the audience with?

Jordan Ledwein: I think the one thing I’ve been saying, and I think I can still say it for now, is that it’s still really early with AI. And I know a lot of people are a little bit hesitant to the idea. And I don’t blame them for that, honestly. I can be a little bit hesitant to the idea myself. But I’d rather understand how to use it. And I can understand how not to use it, use it effectively, use it safely, use it ethically, all of those things. But I think just starting somewhere to learn how to use it is the best thing that you can do. It could be ChatGPT or one of these simple AI programs to where it’s just helping you create recipes for dinner or create a procedure or document or something like that. mean, it doesn’t have to be that complex. But I think the better you understand how to use it, the more set up you’re going to be for the future, both professionally and personally. So just start somewhere. [19:43]

Nancy Calabrese: Well, yeah, I guess that’s really great advice. Just start, do something about it. Last question. I know you mentioned this before, but let’s just repeat it. How can my people find you?

Jordan Ledwein: Yeah, so again, you can connect with me on LinkedIn. Pretty active on there. I promise I’ll get back to you if you send me a message. It just might not be too immediate because I can get little bogged down. But you can also reach out to me via my email, which is Jordan Ledwein. It’s at jordan.ledwine@sandler com. Like Adam Sandler, completely unrelated though. [20:23]

Nancy Calabrese: Right.

Jordan Ledwein: So LinkedIn or that resource would probably be a good way to find. [20:27]

Nancy Calabrese: Awesome. Folks, take advantage of his knowledge because that’s the way of the world. That’s gonna be the future in everything that we do. And Jordan, thank you so much for spending some time with us today. I know I learned a lot and I’m gonna talk to you about a couple of things you recommended. People, again, reach out to Jordan. He’s a wealth of knowledge for the future. And until we see you again or you hear us again, have an awesome sales day and do something with AI. We’ll see you next time. [21:09]

Doug C. Brown: The Power of Conversational Selling Techniques

by | Oct 4, 2024 | Podcast

About Doug C. Brown: Doug C. Brown is the CEO of CEO Sales Strategies and a Sales Revenue and Profit Growth Expert. He has led client award-winning and high-performance teams as well as pioneered profitable development programs for companies. He has advised companies such as Intuit, CBS Television, Procter & Gamble, Enterprise Rent-A-Car, Nationwide, Embassy Suites, Inc. 500 to 5000 companies, and thousands of other businesses and entrepreneurs. As an independent division head, Doug created, trained, and presented high-impact, results-oriented web seminars for prospects of Tony Robbins and Chet Holmes. Doug increased their division sales by 864% and close rate by 62% in just six months. Today, he helps companies and individuals increase their sales by incorporating sales revenue and profit growth strategies used by top 1% performers through the Top 1% Academy, Sales Revenue, and Profit Growth Masterminds. He also specializes in creating commission-only sales teams and advises companies on how to properly prepare for a high-performing sales team so they can attract and retain elite sales producers. Check out the latest episode of our Conversational Selling podcast to learn more about Doug.

In this episode, Nancy and Doug discuss the following:

  • Understanding commission-only sales
  • Optimizing sales strategies
  • Doug’s experience in revolutionizing seminars for Tony Robbins and Chet Holmes
  • How does someone become a 1 % earner
  • The definition and importance of sales optimization
  • Working techniques to close the sale
  • Why “Maybies” are the great start of sales

Key Takeaways: 

  • Optimization is taking a look at everything that you’re doing and then asking two questions: How do I make it more effective? How do I make it more efficient?
  • There are no bad clients, there are bad sales and buying decisions that turn into bad clients.
  • If you make mistakes, don’t beat yourself up for it because multi-billionaires who are selling make mistakes too.

“I became a 1% earner firstly, through declaring and deciding that that’s what’s going to be. It’s a mental game in that regard. A lot of people talk about wanting to become a 1% earner, they want to double their sales, but it’s just an idea. It’s not a committed idea. Firstly, it requires that commitment and, quite frankly, one’s now asking to be in the top 1% of earners in the world. You know, that’s a commitment, and it takes time, energy, a lot of studying, and a lot of practice—and frankly, money, right? Because we’ve got to, we must be investing in things and getting around people who are in the 1% and learning what they’re doing and how they’re doing it. You know, fortunately for us, we train on that. So, you know, somebody comes here, obviously, they’ll learn that. But it’s still about getting around, you know, and I still do the same thing today, Nancy. I mean, I search out people that I feel a little uncomfortable being around because of their place in life, right?” – DOUG

“So, the conversation of selling is really about having a conversion conversation, and I’ll explain what that is versus having a sales conversation, right? Conversion conversations are really doing three things. First, they’re boosting rapport continuously. So, you know, we’re working on trust, like, and respect. A little luck sometimes doesn’t hurt, but it’s really about promoting those three. Second, it’s constantly moving the conversation in the direction of the business return on investment or personal return on investment that the potential buyer is always looking for. I can expand upon that. And third, we’re always creating what we call “yes states.” When we move from step to step in the buyer’s mind, they’re thinking, “Yes, this makes sense,” “Yes, wow,” or “I didn’t know that that’s good.” You want to constantly create a state of yes throughout the process. Now, on business and personal returns, people buy for different reasons, but they all fall into two categories: What is my business return on investment? What is my personal return on investment? When we really understand that ideal client profile and the ideal buyer persona—their motivations, what they want, need, feel, fear, and value—we can construct our conversation to be more like what we’re doing right now: just having a conversation. It’s not about taking them step by step, like, “Well, hey, we built rapport here. Next step, let’s do a discovery session. Next step, let’s…” and so on. That’s a sales conversation. If you do conversational conversion the right way, in most cases, you never even do a presentation. They never ask for it.” – DOUG

“So, the other thing I wanted to say about that, Nancy, is if they’re getting a “maybe,” I would suggest that through their conversational conversion, they haven’t been qualifying or disqualifying. When we’re thinking about creating these yes states, if we’re creating these yes states, but they’re turning out to be “nos,” it’s like your radar goes up as the selling entity. It might be time for you to disengage or at least qualify why. A lot of times, the “maybes” will come at the end because they’re thinking the same thing you are: “I’m really not sure if this will work, but we’re trying to get it to a sale.” And that’s where the apprehension comes up, right? As the seller, we would be much better off going—and we do teach this—if you are not the right fit for this, you gracefully disengage and find out who the right fit is. It goes a long way versus just trying to push the sale. Because there are no bad clients, but there are bad sales and buying decisions that turn into bad clients.” – DOUG

Connect with Doug C. Brown:

Try Our Proven, 3-Step System, Guaranteeing Accountability and Transparency that Drives RESULTS by clicking on this link: https://oneofakindsales.com/call-center-in-a-box/

Connect with Nancy Calabrese: 

Voiceover: You’re listening to The Conversational Selling Podcast with Nancy Calabrese.

Nancy Calabrese: Hi, it’s Nancy Calabrese, and it’s time again for Conversational selling – the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today. And it always starts with the human conversation. Today we’re speaking with Doug C. Brown, CEO of Sales Strategies and a sales revenue and profit growth expert. With a proven track record in transforming sales outcomes, Doug’s career highlights include his tenure as an independent division head, where he revolutionized web seminars for Tony Robbins and Chet Holmes, boosting division sales by an impressive 864 % and increasing the close rate by 62 % in just six months. Doug empowers companies and individuals to achieve remarkable sales results. His impact is tangible as evidenced by clients seeing 3 million in new sales within five weeks through optimized sales channels and conversational selling techniques. You are a superstar, Doug. Welcome to the show.

Doug C. Brown: Well, thank you and thanks for having me here. [1:28]

Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, I can’t wait to dive in. So, I read somewhere that you specialize in commission only sales teams. Why is that?

Doug C. Brown: Well, because everybody selling is commission only, right? So, if we focus on the commissions and, you know, will we help people to solve a problem or to gain a better future and we are focusing on commissions, you know, we’re not sitting back and waiting, you know, for that big base salary or whatever, right? So that’s one reason. The other thing is that most people who are entrepreneurial or owners really like the idea of commission only salespeople because they don’t have to outlay the expense upfront and so therefore, they’re minimizing their risk. [2:23]

Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. What about draw versus commission?

Doug C. Brown: Well, draws okay, you know, but you know, we prefer to have people who are already, you know, don’t need the money, so to speak, right. So, they’re, you know, usually on the drawer, it’s usually something that is because people are seeking some type of cash. I’m looking for that full entrepreneurial person who says, you know, I can get up, I can wake up, I can make money, I can help, and I can sell and so to me, that’s kind of the truest entrepreneur. As an owner, you don’t get paid unless you produce something, right? [3:04]

Nancy Calabrese: I totally agree with you. You know, but my experience is it’s really hard to find commission only salespeople. Has that been your experience?

Doug C. Brown: It depends on what we’re selling. And it hasn’t really been my experience because it’s in how you go after anything advertising for them, right? So, there’s a certain person that has a certain profile, if you will, in buying persona that’s very comfortable with that. So, we target that. [3:40]

Nancy Calabrese: Okay. So, listen, I mean, how did you revolutionize seminars for Tony Robbins and Chet Holmes? I mean, how did you get those numbers?

Doug C. Brown: Well, when I got there, what really, it’s, it’s about optimization and segmentation, right? So, when I got there, I ran all the numbers that they had for the last two years. And I looked at who was buying, who wasn’t buying, why they were buying, why they weren’t buying. And then what I did is two things. One, I separated the right buyers in the right rooms with the right trainers and two. I then trained my team, you know, in the teams, I should say, you know, four days a week, and we continue to train regardless of whether or not they were good, great, amazing, or needed, you know, propping up. So, the two facets of that one, bringing, you know, the skill sets up and two, making sure the systems and optimization were in place. That’s really how we kind of brought it up and we tested, I tested everything. You know, I even tested taking Tony Robbins and Chet Holmes out of the presentation and actually conversion went up. So yeah, you know, that was surprising to me because when I originally looked at the presentation, they had about four or five slides on both, you know, on them, you know, cause they both have huge credibility and so, then I was like, you know what, it’s you know, just in selling, right? It’s always what’s in it for the receiver, not what’s in it for the presenter, so to speak, or the seller, right? Because everybody’s interested in their own. So, I was like, you know, I’ll pull it right out of the presentation and conversion went up and they, you know, then they told me, hey, we need something in there. So, I gave them like, you know, a half a slide. Conversion, you know, improve. I mean, they, you know, I mean, when you go from having your whole team go from 17 .8 % to 43 .2 % on the close, they weren’t going to argue with that. So that was helpful. [5:55]

Nancy Calabrese: Right, all. Wow. Really interesting. So how does someone become a 1 % earner?

Doug C. Brown: Firstly, through declaring and deciding that that’s what’s going to be. It’s a mental game in that regard. A lot of people talk about they want to become a 1 % earner, they want to double their sales, but it’s just an idea. It’s not a committed idea. Firstly, it requires that commitment and quite frankly, one’s now asking to be in the top 1 % of earners in the world you know, that’s a commitment and it takes time, energy, and a lot of studying and a lot of practice and frankly money, right? Because we’ve got to, we must be investing in things and getting around people who are in the 1 % and learning what they’re doing and how they’re doing it. You know, fortunately for us, we train on that. So, you know, somebody comes here, obviously they’ll learn that. But it’s still about getting around, you know, and I still do the same thing, Nancy, today. I mean, I search out people that I feel a little uncomfortable being around because of their place in life, right? [7:09]

Nancy Calabrese: Really? Okay. And I said, really? So how do you even identify the one percenters?

Doug C. Brown: Well, so firstly, you can figure it out by what they’re making. I mean, that’s one capacity, right? I mean, if they’re making that million dollar and up type income. And then, you know, there’s places that one percenter hangs out, right? So, they don’t generally hang out in lower end, you know, spaces, right? And I don’t mean lower end as a derogatory type of term. I mean lower end as in your usually going to find them, you know, start with country clubs and up membership types like things like that, right? They’re usually, you know, they, you know, I have a good friend and, you know, he was telling me he’s like, you know, I’m going to go to the Celtics playoff games. And I’m like, that’s probably gonna, you know, be a ticket cost that is, you know, not going to be, you know, normal. And he’s like, I don’t care. I’m going to sit on the boxes. I’m going to do this. I’m going to do that. Right. So, it’s, it’s that type of thing. Where are they hanging out? You know, and they’re not, you know, hanging out in places usually that, you know, the top 10 % are hanging out there, hanging out in the top one, two, 3 % areas. [8:31]

Nancy Calabrese: Well, okay, so I stated earlier that you have clients seeing three million in new sales within five weeks through your optimized sales channels and conversational selling techniques. Can you expand on that? What are they?

Doug C. Brown: So, optimization is taking a look at everything that you’re doing and then asking these two, this one question, how do I make it more effective and how do I make it more efficient? So, it’s two separate questions, right? So, when you look at effectiveness, that is how do we make this, in the case of say, go back to Tony Robbins, Chet Holmes, that was how to make the conversion rate better, right? And then the efficiency on that is how do we make this more leveraged? How do we make it easier? How do we improve the profitability? How do we lower the time, the energy? How do we create systems around all that process? And how do we automate things, so we don’t have to do certain things? So, it’s all those two facets are what we want to look at every single time on the optimization side. And you asked me a second part of the question. I apologize. I forgot the second part. [9:54]

Nancy Calabrese: That’s fine. Conversational selling techniques. What are some of those?

Doug C. Brown: Okay. Yeah. So, so the conversation of selling is really about having a conversion conversation and I’ll explain what that is versus having a sales conversation, right? So, conversion conversations are doing really three things. One, they’re, they’re boosting rapport continuously. So, you know, work try a luck, not luck, trust, like, and respect. And a little luck sometimes doesn’t hurt, but it’s promoting those. It’s constantly moving the conversation in the direction of the business return on investment or personal return on investment that the potential buyer is always looking for. And I can expand upon that. And the third thing is we’re always creating what we call yes states. When we’re moving from stage step to step to step to step in the buyer’s mind, we’re thinking, yes, this makes sense. Yes. wow. Yeah. I didn’t know that. That’s, that’s good. Right. You constantly want to create a state of yes in the process and on the business and personal return. There’s, you know, people buy for different reasons, but they all kind of fall into those two categories. What is my business return on investment that I’m looking for? What is my personal return on investment that I’m looking for? And so, when we really understand that ideal client profile and the ideal buyer persona, what makes them, you know, their motivations, what do they want, need, feel, you know, fear, right? Value. We can construct our conversation to have a communication going on that’s more like what we’re doing right now, just having a conversation versus having to take them through each step. Well, hey, we built rapport here, next step you know, let’s do a discovery session, next step, let’s, you know, and that, and that, and that, that’s a sales conversation. And if you do conversational conversion the right way, in most cases, you never do a presentation, right? So, they never even ask for it. [12:09]

Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. You know, it’s so funny you bring that up because a lot of salespeople are asked to send proposals, and I never do. I never do. Why? You know, we’ve spoken about it. So, I find that very interesting too.

Doug C. Brown: Yeah, and the only reason to send a proposal is to solidify the agreement. And what I mean by that is the proposal is the actual agreement. [12:34]

Nancy Calabrese: Yes, I agree. I totally agree with you. And since I stopped doing that, which is years ago, I have so much more energy. And another thing, and I don’t know if this has been your experience, a lot of salespeople are afraid to ask for the closes, right? And I think the close is very simple. If you do everything right in the conversations prior, the close is simply, well, what would you like to have happen next? That’s what I say. What do you say?

Doug C. Brown: Yeah, what I usually say is, is this something you’d like to move with right now? Right? Forward with right now, something of that nature, because the course is nothing more than just asking a question. But the too many people, you know, they kind of make it about it’s that nervous guy takes out this beautiful girl. And at the end of the night, he’s like, should I kiss her? Shouldn’t I kiss her? Shouldn’t I kiss her? Shouldn’t I kiss her? Right? Should I try? Should I not? And they get they get all wound up about this thing. And the reality is, and statistically in selling, most people are expecting that question. So, if you don’t ask that question, they’re scratching their head like, why didn’t he try to kiss me? Right? So really, I can’t imagine why. So, it’s one of those situations that statistically, half the people never ask, which I think is crazy, right? Because, you know, crazy curiosity in my head because like, all right, we do all of this, you know, energy and effort to get to this place. And then it’s like, you know, they’re holding the ticket to the concert we wanted to go to in their hand and they’re saying, take it. And all we have to do is reach out and say, you know, thank you. Would you like to come with me, so to speak? And people don’t do that. But the reasons behind that are generally rejection. People don’t. They’re in a fear state. And so when they’re in a fear state, then they play scarcity. And when you play scarcity, they think scarcity and they act in scarcity. And that’s usually what happens. But the reality is those of you who who really want to know if you ask, you know, they’re going to say three things. Yes, no, maybe. And you can deal with that next level as long as we know what it is. But if you don’t ask, I mean, you’re, you know, firstly, it’s, it’s, it’s a rapport break because if they’re looking for somebody who has high confidence, which most people do, who wants to buy off somebody who’s like, you know, so shy and timid, like, well, maybe this will work. Maybe this will work, right? You know, you know, you don’t want to be in that position because, you know, confidence drops. But so asking and asking in a way that’s really kind of like part of the conversation that you would be having with your best friend. You know, that’s really how we want to I mean, you don’t ask your best friend like, you know, hey, do you think you want to go here? You know, you’re like, Hey, look, I’m going to go to the movies you want to go. [16:01]

Nancy Calabrese: Right, right. You want to cut, right? Listen, it’s better to get a no or a yes, but I hate the maybes. So what do you have to say about the maybes?

Doug C. Brown: Yeah. Well, the maybe is the first thing that I want people to understand when you get a maybe is don’t panic, right? So, it’s because the, the, the, it’s the same rules I teach and getting an objection, right? Cause a maybe really is an objection. It’s just that they’re lacking information and they’re not really sure. So, they’re in a state of, fear really when it comes down to it. Right. And we could call it discomfort because some people don’t like the word fear, but when somebody’s in that state they’re not sure where they’re going. So, they could be overwhelmed at this point. They could be underwhelmed, right? But they still have interest. So, the first thing is when we hear maybe folks breathe, take a breath, relax, right? Otherwise, the natural tendency is going to be to want to overcome it and or run away from it, right? Neither work very well. If we try to overcome it and they’re in a fear state and now we’re on top of them saying, hey, why what, what, what, you know, we’re just Adam, then all of a sudden, we’re going to start creating more fear. Because now it’s no longer about the situation. It’s about you, not you, Nancy, but the person selling, you know, being highly dominant. And now it’s no longer about even what the original objection was about, if you will, the maybe was about it’s about now they’re anchoring this fear to the individual selling, which is the worst position to be in. So yeah. [17:46]

Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. They shouldn’t be in sales if they’re fearful. Right? Because we live in rejection land. You get more no’s, way more no’s than you do get a yes. But when you get a yes, it’s like the baby came. This is great, right? But until the baby comes, you’re in a state of discomfort, or women are. So.

Doug C. Brown: Right. Well, then when the baby comes, it’s like all heck breaks loose, right? So, the other thing I wanted to say about that, Nancy, is if they’re getting a maybe, I would suggest that through their conversational conversion, they haven’t been qualifying or disqualifying. So, when we’re thinking about creating these yes states, if we’re creating these yes states, but they’re turning out to be nos, right? And it’s like your radar goes up as the selling entity. It might be time for you to disengage or at least qualify why, because a lot of times the maybes will come at the end because they’re thinking the same thing you are. I’m really not sure if this will work, but we’re trying to get it to a sale. And so, there’s where the apprehension comes up, right? We would, as the seller, be much better going, you know, and what we teach, we do teach this, which is if you are not the right fit for this, you gracefully disengage and you find out who the right fit is. It goes a long way versus just trying to, because there are no bad clients. There are bad sales and buying decisions that turn into bad clients. [19:25]

Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, you know, and I think getting back to our job in sales is to get to the answer or the no quickly. So, it frees you to move on to the next prospect, right?

Doug C. Brown: Well, I think I’d say getting to the know in its time, right? So, I don’t want to urge people to get to the No quickly because if we get to the know quickly, then sometimes we bypass things, right? So, I’ve seen it, and I’m saying this especially for non -experienced people who are listening to this, they’re like, okay. Because it’s okay to miss occasionally, right? Because even at the stages, yeah, I was just going to say that, right. I still miss, you know, time to time, right? I did the other day and I’m like, how did I miss that? Right? And that was the wrong question and the answer because my brain came back and said, because you’re stupid. Right. But, you know, a better-quality question would have been like, you know, where in the process that I know so well did I make the full power, right? And then it would have been like, right here. And then it would have been like, okay, so you learn from that. And that’s the other thing, Nancy. I want people to understand that multi -billionaires who are selling, not that I’m a multi -billionaire, but I can say certainly millionaire type selling, they make mistakes too. So, if you make mistakes, don’t beat yourself up for it because I’ve seen the best of the best, because I’ve been able, I mean, being president of Tony Robbins companies, you can imagine that the access I had to other people, right? And then, I’ve watched lots of them make mistakes. I mean, I watched Chad Holmes blow out a sale twice. Yeah, yeah, and I went back and closed the one of the two and it happened to be a little company called Intuit. Yeah, yeah. It was amazing. You know, we made about $435 ,000 off that, right? And, you know, the point I want to make is not how much money we made off that. But the point I want to make is that no matter how good you are, you’re still dealing with human beings. And, you know, if they sometimes throw you a curve ball, like, you know, how many people maybe are listening to this, are married or have been in a relationship for a long period of time and then all of a sudden something just comes up where in that relationship you’re like, whoa, where’s this coming from, right? [22:21]

Nancy Calabrese: I can’t believe we’re up with time. I want to ask you one other question. What is the one takeaway you want to leave the audience with?

Doug C. Brown: That it is our responsibility to do the right thing in selling, which means we want to play win -win, which means that if they’re not going to win and you’re going to win, that’s win -lose. If you’re going to lose and they’re going to win, that’s win -lose. So, if it’s not the right fit, as we were talking earlier, and you know it’s not win -win, then I firmly agree with what you said you know, disengage quickly, you know, get to that no on your side or their side. Because there’s, you know, there’s no sense in continuing the relationship in the capacity, turn it into a new relationship, and then work on expanding that relationship to get you better, better fit, right? They will appreciate it. So yes. [23:27]

Nancy Calabrese: Yep. Yeah. Well, how can my people find you?

Doug C. Brown: Well, they can do it numerous different ways. Can I give them something free, Nancy? Is that okay? Yeah, so I wrote an ebook called “The 1 % Earner” that we’re actually rewriting because when I read it just recently, I was like, there’s too much about me in that. So, I told everybody to take that out. But it’s at www.CEOSalesStrategies.com/1P .So one P E and they can download that and it will really talk about how you think and what’s the difference between, you know, people who are earning average in sales and you know, the one percenters, how they’re doing it. And they’re going to notice it’s not radical, you know, changes. It’s just, you know, slight changes that lead to better outcomes, right? So that’s one https://www.linkedin.com/in/dougbrown123/ is my LinkedIn. If they want to send in an email, please to the company, just send it to you matter youmatter@CEOSalesStrategies.com [24:45]

Nancy Calabrese: Wow, great conversation, Doug. I knew it was going to be. And for everyone out there, take advantage of this gentleman’s expertise in sales. And as you heard, he’s a funny guy too, so we’ll make it enjoyable. Doug, I appreciate you spending time with us today and sharing everything that you know, not even everything, but what we discussed, and I hope our paths cross again. So, for all of you people out there, make it an awesome sales day and definitely download that eBook, get in touch with Doug and we’ll see you next time. [25:25]