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Laurel Bernstein | How Active Listening Can Help You Sell More Effectively

by | Oct 20, 2020 | Podcast

On this week’s episode of Conversational Selling, we sit down with Laurel Bernstein, Founder and President of Laurel Bernstein and Associates, a consulting and training firm providing performance and leadership skill training for business professionals. Laurel has an extensive background as a facilitator and trainer and aims to be able to help and advise business owners on their business models and team development.

“I spent the first 25 years of my life as a painfully shy person; in groups I rarely had anything to say. But, I started to study listening skills and learned that you don’t have to be born a good listener, it’s actually a skill you can learn. So, I became a student of listening, and as a result, I would hear and observe things that people didn’t even realize. I realized that I knew a lot more about what was going on in a room than the people who were participating,” says Laurel.

We chat about what sets Laurel apart from others in her field, as well as:

  • How active listening can help you sell more effectively
  • Her tips for keeping sales skills sharp
  • Why every conversation is a negotiation
  • What makes someone successful in sales
  • And more

Listen now…

Mentioned in this episode:

 

Transcript

Nancy Calabrese: Hi everybody and welcome to Conversational Selling. It’s the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today. And it all starts with the human conversation. I’m your host, Nancy Calabrese, and it’s fantastic to have with me today, Laurel Bernstein, the founder and president of Laurel Bernstein and Associates, a consulting and training firm providing performance and leadership skill training for business professionals.

She has an extensive background as a highly effective facilitator and trainer. Laurel advises many companies helping owners evaluate their business model and team development. And she has the astounding ability to listen in ways most of us don’t. And I can’t wait to hear more about that. Laurel is a staple here at One of a Kind Sales. We couldn’t live without her. Thanks so much for joining us today, Laurel.

Laurel Bernstein: Well, Nancy, as I said, I’m honored because you have a high standard.

Nancy: Oh, okay. Well, I guess I’ve been accused of worse before, right?

Laurel: No, but thank you. I’m really delighted to be here. And I’m really delighted to talk to you more about the importance of listening, especially in sales.

Nancy: Sure. You know, you and I have gotten to know each other over the years. And, you know, I’m always amazed at your successful career and in your wealth of knowledge. I mean, any question I have, you have an answer for, you’re my go-to for everything. I’m just curious, you spent many years in corporate. What made you leave to become a certified executive coach?

Why Laurel Chose to Leave Her Job and Start Her Own Coaching Firm

Laurel: The reason I left is that two or three years before I actually did leave, I started to think about what am I going to do next. And I had made an entire career of being in charge, always in charge of something. And I really wanted to think about my next act. And I didn’t want to be let go like people were being let go after long careers.

So I wanted to plan my own exit. And so I had always been advising senior leaders, so decided to go to business school to become a certified executive coach. And fortunately, the company that I was working for allowed me to have five or six internal clients so that I could get good at what I was doing. And once I got good, I decided I want to do, instead of saving the company I was working for millions of dollars, maybe I wanted to go out on my own and make millions of dollars.

Nancy: Hey, I like that thinking. And I’ll take that any day. Now that, you know, obviously, when you hear the word executive coach, what comes to my mind is you work in a highly saturated space. And again, I know firsthand, you’re amazing. But what unique idea, sets what you do apart from the others?

Laurel: So to be very honest, I spent the first 25 years of my life as a painfully shy person. I would be in groups of even as little as three or 33 and I would never say anything. I very rarely had anything to say. And I wasn’t even uncomfortable about it. But because I was watching and listening and hearing, seeing people roll their eyes and I became so good at listening.

So I started to study listening skills and learned that you don’t have to be born a good listener. It’s actually a skill you can learn. So I became a student of listening. And as a result, I would hear things that weren’t there and I would hear and observe things that people didn’t even realize. And I realized that I knew a lot more about what was going on in the room than the people participating.

Nancy: Wow. You know, and in sales, as you know, it requires a lot of skills. But one of the most important skill, I think the most important skill is the people’s ability to listen. And you’ve often told me and my team that I’m trained to listen differently. How is that? You know, I want to know more. I’m sure my audience does.

A Different Approach to Listening

Laurel: Okay. So this is really important to understand. And I’m going to give you a little background story. I went to a networking event. We were sitting around a big table and there were 17 people, including myself. And when I have people introduce themselves, I like to go first because otherwise, I’m sitting here at the table, practicing what I’m going to say and practicing what I’m going to say and then I’m not listening to anybody else. So I sat in the spot where I could go first.

But unfortunately, the leader started elsewhere in the room. So I decided I was going to write one thing down about each person in the room. Just one thing that was outstanding that I would want to remember. And then when it got to me, I was the last person, I went around the room and I said to each person, I’m going to tell you what I remembered from your presentation and then you’re going to tell me if that’s what you want to be remembered for. And if you don’t want to be remembered for that, you get to do a do-over.

So, out of 17 people, there were nine people who did do-overs because truthfully, I was the only one in that room that was listening. Everybody else was preparing what they had to say. It was pretty obvious when they said what they had to say but they hadn’t heard anything that happened before. And I really, as a result, wound up with two clients in that room that signed up to my active listening workshop.

Nancy: Wow. I mean, that’s pretty amazing. So can you talk to us more about that workshop? What’s it like?

Laurel: All right, so I’m going to give you sort of like an intro so that you can feel what the workshop is like. One of the first things that I do is I said, say, we’re not going to introduce ourselves. So what we’re going to do is we’re going to talk about our favorite room, and it needs to have texture and color and function. And why you love it, why it is your favorite room. It doesn’t even have to be a room in your home. It could be your deck, it could be a room that you stayed in at the Biltmore Hotel.

It could be any room that just was perfect for you that you love. And so we go around the room and everybody does that. And what I then do is I asked them one at a time to tell me one thing that they know about every other person in the room without repeating something they said. So in other words, if they said, I have a red couch in my living room that’s so furry and comfortable, and I stretch out on it every night after dinner, you can’t say any of those words.

You have to say something about the person you learned from hearing the things they said. So what we’re looking for is, well, you know, she knows how to unwind because lying on the couch was unwinding. It wasn’t about that Nancy has a red couch, it was that she got a place to lie down in her favorite room where she knows how to unwind. And so all the attributes of a person come out when they’re talking about something they care about. And if you’re really listening, you can know them.

Nancy: Wow. So how long does it take to develop a skill like that?

Laurel: My workshop is nine sessions. They’re an hour and 15 minutes each. Usually, you press to really materialize around session number four. And I have to admit that there are occasionally some people that get all the way through the program and they still are unable to listen to cutely. They are better, but they don’t really learn how to listen with a third year.

Nancy: Right. So let’s talk about what you do and how it would benefit people in sales.

If You’re Talking, You’re not Learning

Laurel: So, people in general like to talk about themselves. They are, if you ask somebody tell me something about yourself, they like to do that. And so if you’re talking, you’re not learning anything about them because they’re not talking. I would think that in a sales situation, the more you knew about a person, the better the conversation will be. And if you really want to know, you have to listen.

And you have to keep prompting them. One of my favorite books of all times, Tell Me More. And that was just something that in a conversation, a woman would say over and over again, tell me more. And it would really allow somebody to really tell you what they need. And then from a sales perspective, then when you hear what they need, you can then tell them you understand that and that you can provide that for them in a way that they can receive it because they’ve just told you they need it.

Nancy: Yeah. So is this the kind of training, you know, I know, there were a training programs people invest in, and then maybe they’ll do it, right? For a period of time. What is your recommendation to keep your skills sharp? Again, in sales, I think it’s the most important skill. So do you have any techniques or any go-to places you would recommend people spend time each week and just, you know, revisit or learn new techniques?

Laurel: So what I can explain which can be recreated very easily at the end of the workshop, we define what areas of listening people are still struggling with. And then what we do is we have one final videotaping of each person’s listening skills test. And we have them do it over and over and over again until the skill is built. We’ve provided a way for them to do that on a regular basis until it gels for them. The listening skills requires another person to practice and that’s what we provide.

Nancy: Okay, and you do this, you can do this virtually?

Laurel: Oh, yeah, it’s better done virtually, actually because then you can record the visual.

Nancy: Okay, so generally speaking, what do you think makes a person more or less successful in sales?

Every Conversation is a Negotiation

Laurel: So I think that one of the things that is one of the most important things is that they don’t ever sell, they need to know that every single conversation you have with another human being in a negotiation. So you want to go to a movie with, or you want to choose a movie to download with a friend. So you say, What do you feel like watching? Do you want to do a rom com? Do you want to do a shoot em up?

You want adventure? Do you want to do sci-fi? You’re negotiating, right? Well, I really thought I wanted to do this. Well, I heard that wasn’t so good. And it goes back and forth and back and forth as a negotiation. Every conversation that any two people have is a negotiation. So I think salespeople from listening, can benefit so much because they are hearing what they need to hear to negotiate effectively.

Nancy: Yeah. And, you know, when you really pay attention and understand what they need, they are pretty much telling you how to sell them, right? by listening and letting them talk. And we love that phrase here, tell me more. We use it all the time and just try to keep quiet. I think there’s a stat 70% of the time, prospects should be talking, 30% of the time we should be talking. So I think this is really amazing. And frankly, I haven’t heard of a program like this. You may have just answered this, but I’m going to ask you this anyway. Tell me something that’s true that nobody agrees with you on.

Laurel: Well, that every conversation is a negotiation. It’s hard for people to think that they’re doing it all the time. And I’ve never really gotten anybody to say yeah, I guess you’re right. But I did, you know, I did think it through and it really, that’s how it comes out. Every interaction.

Nancy: Wow. I know that you and I spoke earlier about how you quote your father, and it’s endearing. And I saw something on your LinkedIn profile talking about the forcers and the unforcers. And I wonder if we could just tie it into what we’ve been talking about.

Forcers vs Unforcers

Laurel: Well, absolutely. Let me give you a quick summary of the story that I wrote. My father believes that the room, the dichotomy that he lives by were the people who forced things and the people who were patient and would keep things calmer. And his example was that if you are trying to get a light bulb out of the ceiling lamp, and doesn’t come out easily, the person who is a forcer, is going to grab it and turn it and the bolt could break in their hands.

And more than not, they get hurt. But the person who is patient and waits, wiggles it a little bit, turns it off, thinking maybe if it pulls down a little bit it’ll come out easier. And they almost never make a mistake. And I think in sales, it’s the same kind of thing. If you’re trying to force a sale, uh oh, I don’t, nobody likes to feel that. Nobody wants to be on the receiving end of something that’s being forced at them. But if you’re gentle and you’re listening, and you’re waiting to see what a person needs and you really hear them, the patient person will come out on the right side of the sale.

Nancy: Awesome. Yep, I completely agree with you. So what’s the one takeaway you’d like to leave the audience with?

Laurel: Alright, so there’s this program called StoryCorps, started 17 years ago by a fella named Robert Isay. And what you can do is go into a booth, they started in Grand Central Station in New York, and you could go with a grandparent or a parent or spouse and interview them. And the interview would be stored in the Library of Congress. And after 17 years, now you can do it online. You can do it with your cousin in California.

And these interviews are golden. They’re just beautiful. And they interviewed Robert Isay about on the 10th anniversary to ask him what he learned from starting StoryCorps, and he said, first of all, I learned that listening is an act of love. And then he said, I also learned that when you’re talking, you’re only telling people what you know. But when you’re listening, you’re learning something new.

Nancy: Oh, wow. Laurel, I’m sure my audience wants to reach out to you. How can they find you?

Laurel: They can find me at www.laurelbernstein.com or laurel@laurelBernstein.com.

Nancy: Wonderful. Another great conversation with Laurel Bernstein. I highly recommend to any of you out there, if you have interest in what we’ve just discussed and she shared with us, be sure to reach out to Laurel. My team and I are going to participate in this active listening workshop. We can’t wait to get started. And additionally, for those that might have an interest in relying on a professional to turn to who’s got the answers for everything, I highly recommend. Laurel. Thank you so much for coming on today.

Laurel: Well, thank you. I really had fun. This is great.

Active Listening – it’s more than just ‘hearing’ what your prospect is saying!

by | Oct 8, 2019 | Best Sales Practices, Cold Calling Tips

At One of a Kind Sales, we spend a LOT of time training our people to ACTIVELY LISTEN. Picking up the phone and dialing MAY get you to the right person but active listening is the real secret to setting qualified appointments and sales success! 

Can you hear me? 

A basic Cold Calling requirement is being able to HEAR the prospect. That means setting yourself up so there is no background noise or music to distract you and having a headset with adequate volume controls. Close all your extraneous browser windows and shut off your personal phone so you are not tempted to check email, texts or social media.  

It’s not just hearing them… 

ACTIVE listening involves more than just HEARING what your prospect is saying. It means UNDERSTANDING what is being said, and oftentimes, being able to hear and understand the UNSPOKEN context. Actively listening will enable you to ‘hear’ the prospect’s body language through the tone, volume and words they are using. It means noticing shifts in that tone or changes in the volume and then modulating your own tone and words in response. 

Active listening involves paying attention to what is said and using the prospect’s responses to formulate your own statements.  

Active listening tactics 

We recommend a number of tactics to do this: 

  • Paraphrasing – which is where you restate some of the prospects replies but in your own words.  
  • Summarizing – where you provide a summary of the process or discussion to give an overview and context. 
  • Clarification – where you restate and/or explain things to make sure you are all on the same page. ASK for clarification on a point or statement to keep the prospect talking about their issues. 
  • Reflection – where you reflect the prospect’s words back to them to help them understand what you are hearing. 

Note that ALL of the above require you to have HEARD not just the prospect’s words but the intentions behind those words. Pay attention, listen carefully and you will be rewarded with valuable insights and you will, more importantly, earn their trust! They can tell when you are listening and will appreciate that you have HEARD them.  

Resources 

Because we know that ACTIVE LISTENING is such an important skill, we have collected many useful resources on this topic. Here are a few articles and videos we think can help YOU improve YOUR active listening skills: 

Adi Klevit: The Power of Processes

by | Sep 6, 2024 | Podcast

About Adi Klevit: Adi is the leader and visionary of Business Success Consulting Group. Her twenty-five years of knowledge and experience as a trained Industrial Engineer, management consultant, and business executive give her a unique understanding of the challenges businesses face. Adi utilizes her practical know-how and wisdom to help organizations and companies of any size dramatically improve their efficiency and performance. By leveraging her ability to understand business processes as well as people and drawing on her high-caliber skills in vital areas of personnel management, finance, and operations, Adi can help virtually any business owner achieve their goals and bring order to their lives. Check out the latest episode of our Conversational Selling podcast to learn more about Adi.

In this episode, Nancy and Adi discuss the following:

  • The importance of well-documented processes
  • The process of mapping and documenting client processes
  • Identifying pain points that signal the need for process documentation.
  • The impact of documented processes on business efficiency and growth
  • The role of process documentation in employee training and retention
  • Adi’s unique team approach and company scaling

Key Takeaways: 

  • You will be surprised how many growing companies do not have processes and procedures in place.
  • The adaptability that you have to have doesn’t mean the processes are bad.
  • Don’t be afraid to start process documentation. Just start doing it. Don’t make it complex.

“The first thing that we do is we make sure that they have the mindset that processes and procedures will be used throughout the company. That’s number one. Number two is that we have to make sure that the documented procedures and processes are accessible and written in such a format that everybody can follow them. So that’s very important because if they are stored somewhere, nobody knows where it’s very hard to follow and implement them. Then, we have a rollout process. It’s a five-step rollout process, very specific, that intends to train everybody on those procedures and also make sure that there is buy-in and that every person understands the importance of having those processes documented. The next step after that is ensuring those processes are being utilized and used in day-to-day management. In terms of what we also do, we ensure that there are regular reviews of those processes and that regular review is either driven by time.” – ADI

“I think what sets us apart is that we have a strong team. And my idea is that you know, I can’t be a solo practitioner. I have a team—a team of writers, a team of consultants, marketing, and sales. You know, I feel like I need to walk the walk, not just talk the talk, right? And I managed to scale my company. I managed to increase it, to make it bigger. All of that allows us to take on more and more clients, and we continually improve our own processes. We want to deliver a great product for our clients, and we do. So that is pretty unique.” – ADI

“You know, I think it’s important to have well-documented processes and procedures that all follow. I think that is extremely important. It’s something that people should look at, and having somebody do it for you is going to make a huge difference. Because, as one of my clients just said—and again, you can also watch her video on our website—she said if she tried to do it herself, she would still be on procedure number four. And, you know, I hear it over and over again. So, in terms of expediting things and increasing the organization, I recommend that you document your processes and procedures. And if you need help, contact us.” – ADI.

“Processes and procedures are not boring; they can actually be pretty exciting because they give you freedom, you know? That’s another truism—it does give you freedom. And people sometimes think that it’s restrictive, especially creative people. They might think that having processes and procedures is a restrictive activity, but the truth is, it’s not. Because if you don’t have your processes and procedures well-documented, that’s restrictive because then you have to reinvent the wheel every single time.” – ADI

Connect with Adi Klevit:

Try Our Proven, 3-Step System, Guaranteeing Accountability and Transparency that Drives RESULTS by clicking on this link: https://oneofakindsales.com/call-center-in-a-box/

Connect with Nancy Calabrese: 

Transcript
Voiceover: You’re listening to The Conversational Selling Podcast with Nancy Calabrese.

Nancy Calabrese: Hi, it’s Nancy Calabrese, and it’s time again for Conversational selling – the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today and it always starts with the human conversation. Today we’re speaking with Adi Klevit, CEO and founder of Business Success Consulting Group where they identify, create and document processes and procedures so the business can grow and scale. Adi’s 25 years of knowledge and experience as a trained industrial engineer, management consultant, and business executive give her a unique understanding of the challenges businesses face. Adi utilizes her practical know -how and wisdom to successfully help organizations and companies of any size dramatically improve their efficiency and performance. And finally, Adi can help virtually any business owner achieve their goals and bring order to their lives. Welcome to the show Adi, let’s get started.

Adi Klevit: Yes! Thank you, Nancy, I’m so happy to be here! [1:23]

Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, I mean, I love being on your podcast, so I couldn’t wait for us to do this. And, you know, I want to talk about your specialty and the importance of having systems in place and a process. I guess for starters, do you find many companies don’t have that in place?

Adi Klevit: You know, it, yeah, that is, that is the case. You know, we work with fast growing companies at the lacking consistency, and you will be surprised how many do not have those processes and procedures in place. [2:00]

Nancy Calabrese: Wow, you know, I’m really shocked and I know it’s important, right? Documentation, implementation. And so, describe how it’s important for all of us to have that.

Adi Klevit: Well, yeah, I mean, you know, if you think about it, look at a company, if they are growing, they’re adding more personnel, they are selling more, et cetera, and they don’t have the systems to support it, I mean, that can create problems. [2:30]

Nancy Calabrese: Right. I mean, do you find that the systems are the same from company to company or do they vary?

Adi Klevit: You know, there are basic systems that are very similar in terms of they all have to have HR systems. They all have to have cell systems, right? I mean, you are the expert at that. They all have to have marketing operations, quality control. There are definitely systems that are very similar, but the content can be different. [3:02]

Nancy Calabrese: Okay, and like how do you create the content then? When you engage a client, for instance, how do you take them through the process?

Adi Klevit: That’s a great question. So, what we do is the first thing that we do is we need to process map, basically create a map of all the processes that they have. So, we map their processes and then we decide where we’re going to start. Now we always like to start with the area that will give us the biggest return on investment. And that area, return investment, I judge it in terms of, or we qualify it in terms of. Of course, it’s money but it’s also maybe time that you are getting back. Maybe it’s…You know, like you have an employee that is coming on and you don’t have a way to train them. And if you had return on investment, you’ll be able to train them faster. And then they are not, they’re going to be able to stay longer. So, employee retention, it can be return on investment in terms of risk mitigation, whatever it is. Right. So, we decide where we’re going to start. And then what we do, we schedule a weekly meeting where we are going through the processes that we mapped and we extract information from each and every client, sorry, from each and every department or basically the processes that we want to document. We extract the information and then we write it. And then we provide it to the subject matter experts so they can review it, they can see, they can give us their opinion and anything that needs to be edited and then we repeat it until we have all the processes documented. Now we also help with process improvement and then we basically help the company to make sure that the processes are followed by all. [5:04]

Nancy Calabrese: Okay, how do you do that? How do you know it’s going to be consistently done?

Adi Klevit: Right, so we guide the company through it, right? So, the first thing that we do is we make sure that they have the mindset that processes and procedures are going to be used throughout the company. That’s number one. Number two is we have to make sure that the procedures, processes that were documented are accessible and are written in such a format that everybody can follow them. So that’s very important because if they are stored somewhere that nobody knows where, it’s very hard to follow them and it’s very hard to get them implemented. Then we have a rollout process. It’s actually a five -step rollout process, very specific, that intends to train everybody on those procedures and also make sure that there is buying, and every person really understands the importance of having those processes documented. The next step after that is we make sure those processes are actually being utilized and used in day -to -day management. And then we also ensure that those.

Nancy Calabrese: And how do you have to ensure that heavy? Sorry about that.

Adi Klevit: Good question but let me just say that like in terms of what we also do, we ensure that there is regular reviews of those processes and that regular review is either driven by time. So, every so often, like every six months, every year, every quarter, those processes are being reviewed or it’s driven by event if there are any changes, and those processes need to be changed. So, to answer your question on how we ensure that there is utilization of those processes. So whenever there are issues that happen in a company, we handle it by, you know, it’s always a people problem, a process problem or both, right? So, we guide the company and the stakeholders or the main stakeholders on how to identify whether it’s a issue, it’s a people problem, a process problem or both, and what steps to take in order to remedy what is happening. That’s one example. [7:15]

Nancy Calabrese: Okay, wow. I guess, you know, what I’m thinking as you’re speaking is what are some of the pain points companies are experiencing that let you know that they need your services?

Adi Klevit: Yeah. So, it’s a very good question. So, let’s say they are expanding. Okay. And they’re hiring people and let’s say, you know, you work with salespeople. So, let’s say it’s a construction company and then now hiring an estimator. Like the owner has been wearing that estimator hat and they go, okay, now I’m going to hire somebody new, but I don’t know what to do with them. I don’t know how to train them. I don’t know how, you know, how we’re going to explain to them everything that they need to be doing. Like, for example, I have a client right now that is hiring a project manager for the first time. He’s been being the project manager, but how do we actually teach the project manager what they need to do? So, we had to document everything and then train the project manager on how to do that work. So that, that is an example. [8:25]

Nancy Calabrese: Okay, wow. How long does it typically take for a company, for the light bulb to go off when you create all of these systems, then it’s running smoothly?

Adi Klevit: I think it’s pretty fast because the more order you put in, the more aha moments they will have in terms of the light bulb. Like, wow, yeah, that works. We need to put more and more order. So I think it can be pretty immediate. [8:55]

Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. How did you get involved in this? What piqued your interest in doing this kind of work?

Adi Klevit: When I was deciding on my major in college, I look at different options. And the thing that really interested me when I chose industrial engineering, it was the fact that it was a combination of science, which I was really good at, but also understanding human nature and helping people be more productive, more efficient, and increase basic productivity and efficiency. And that really interested me because I wanted to know how I can help people. I wanted to increase their success, and I wanted to combine also science and do something that has a good methodology to it. [9:47]

Nancy Calabrese: Wow. And you say that you can virtually help any kind of business in any industry. Do you do more work in one industry over another?

Adi Klevit: We’re pretty industry agnostic, so we have clients all over. We have clients that are in the trades. We have clients that are in manufacturing, professional services, even retail. So constructions, private practices, so definitely a variety. [10:20]

Nancy Calabrese: Wow. And do you do this nationwide or throughout the world?

Adi Klevit: I do it throughout the world as a matter of fact, I mean, definitely nationwide and also throughout the world. We have clients in the UK, clients in Australia. [10:35]

Nancy Calabrese: Wow, far reach, that is you. So, what is your unique idea that is different and sets you apart in your industry?

Adi Klevit: It’s a tough question in terms of, because I don’t know what other people, I mean, I know what I know about my us. And I think what sets us apart is that we have a strong team. And my idea is that, you know, I can’t be a solo practitioner. I have a team, I have a team of writers, I have a team of consultants, I have marketing sales. You know, I feel like I need to walk the walk, you know, not just talk the talk, right? And I managed to scale my company. I managed to increase it. I make it to make it bigger. I, we all that allows us to take more and more clients and we always improve, improve our own processes. We want to deliver a great product for our clients, and we do. So that is pretty unique. [11:41]

Nancy Calabrese: Wow, yeah, I would think so. And is there a story that you think the audience would find interesting?

Adi Klevit: Of course, you know, we have many case studies, like for instance, a client, if you want to look at the actual videos, you can go to our, on my LinkedIn, Adik Levit, if you look me up, there are plenty of testimonial videos in the clients onwards and it’s testimonials from the clients. Yeah, so one of the stories there is of a client that was able to sell his company for two times of what it was worth because he had well -documented processes and procedures. Another story is of a client that was able to reduce the onboarding time of new customer service representatives by 75 % because he had training materials. [12:33]

Nancy Calabrese: Wow.

Adi Klevit: Yeah, I know. There is another one of a client that was able to grow his company and was actually able to take a vacation for, he wasn’t able to take a vacation for so long and he was able to. Even today, I was talking to a client, and he was freaking out because he’s going to be two weeks with no phone in a retreat and no computer and no ability to communicate to his team. And, you know, they have great documented processes. His team. We really train them that it’s followed by all and ask them the questions. Okay. I understand you’re freaking out but tell me one specific thing that will happen that you anticipate that can happen while you’re gone. And he looked and he looked, and he looked, and he goes, nothing. It’s all going to be just fine. Nothing bad will happen. I can just leave. And that was amazing. That was an amazing win because three years ago it would have happened. [13:33]

Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, you know, it’s funny. I remember the first year I was able to take a vacation. It is freeing, right? You feel like, yes, I finally got there. But for years, you know, many years ago, I never took a vacation and didn’t work. So, I know that feeling. I mean, is there anything in particular you would like me to spotlight?

Adi Klevit: You know, I think it’s the importance of actually having well -documented processes and procedures that are followed by all. I think that is extremely important. It’s something that people should definitely look at and that doing it, having somebody do it for you is definitely going to make a huge difference. Because as one of my clients just said, and again, you can also watch her video on words. She said if she was actually trying to do it herself, she would still be on procedure number four. And, you know, and I hear it over and over again is so in terms of expediting things, in terms of increasing the organization, definitely recommend that you document your processes and procedures. And if you need help, contact us. [14:53]

Nancy Calabrese: Yep. Wow, yeah, you know, it’s always a good idea to engage with an expert in whatever you need to have done. I’m a big believer in outsourcing, as you know. So, what’s a fun fact about you that the audience should know?

Adi Klevit: You know, I am, I love the outdoors. I live in the Pacific Northwest, love the outdoors. I think it’s, it’s so important to balance, you know, activity, being active and going out and have your space, have your time. And I just love doing that. And I get my brightest and best ideas when I’m actually on a hike, when I’m outside. So, I love that. [15:44]

Nancy Calabrese: Do you bring a recorder with you, so you record it when it comes to you?

Adi Klevit: You know, it’s actually a great idea, I should. Well, I have my phone, so yes, but I think it’s a different thing. Yeah.

Nancy Calabrese: You know, it’s so funny, you know, now I’m hating myself because I used to have a recorder next to my, on my nightstand. If I couldn’t sleep and I thought of something, I would like talk to it. And it always at least reminded me of the idea because then I go to sleep and forget it. So now we have fun.

Adi Klevit: You know, that’s a great, yeah, I heard it from different people, and I think it’s definitely a great, great idea.

Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, yeah. So, tell me something that’s true that almost nobody agrees with you on.

Adi Klevit: that processes and procedures are not a boring activity, that it actually can be pretty exciting. [16:43]

Nancy Calabrese: Okay. How so?

Adi Klevit: Because it gives you freedom, you know? That’s another truism, it does give you freedom. And people think that sometimes it’s restrictive, especially people that are creative, they might think that having processes and procedures is a restrictive activity. But the truth is, it’s not. Because if you don’t have your processes and procedures well documented, that’s restrictive because then you have to reinvent the wheel every single time. [17:13]

Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, true. What about our personal lives? Do you recommend having that for our personal lives?

Adi Klevit: I’m a firm believer in it. What about you? What do you think?

 

Nancy Calabrese: Well, you know, I think we’re all creatures of habit and I think it’s more in my head than documented.

Adi Klevit: Yeah, I mean, that’s why I tell people it’s like you, yeah, it is in your head, but you do it. Like I tell people, you know, you all have a process. You know, when you wake up in the morning and you make tea or drink water or make coffee, you know, there are not a lot of people that will vary it every single day. They probably have their process, right? I mean, when you go grocery shopping, you have your process. You know, even if you go online, you know, you go, I’ll start with this and this and that, or even the processes go to you. You know, shopping cart online. I mean, we select everything that you want and then add additional things, whatever it is. It’s a process. Now, you know, you must have, I mean, like everything in life, you shouldn’t do anything to excess. Right. I mean, you know, I’m not talking here about being like obsessive with order. And if something, see, that’s the thing. If something, let’s say it goes wrong, then, then you just freak out and you can move on. No, you must flow with it. Okay. So, you have a process of doing so. Let’s say you have a process of making coffee, but your coffee machine is broken. So don’t freak out about it. Go to your coffee shop down the street and buy coffee and then go fix it or buy a new one. So, it’s that adaptability that you have to have, but it doesn’t mean the processes are bad, right? I mean, for me, I know that I say, I want time to do the things that I like, right? I want time to read books. I want time to volunteer in the community. I want time to go outdoors but I want also time to complete all my tasks. And what I find is that I can cut down time by having processes. [19:07]

Nancy Calabrese: Wow, wow, I totally agree with you. You know, we’re up in time and let me ask you one final question. What is one takeaway you’d like to leave the audience with?

Adi Klevit: that don’t be afraid from starting process documentation. Just start doing it. Don’t make it complex. Don’t make it like something that you have to wait one day. You will get to it just right now. Sit down in front of your computer. Find something that you are going, okay, I want to now document my sales process and write a few steps on how you sell. That is your sales process and call Nancy, of course, so she can help you with the sales process. But you know, you can definitely.

Nancy Calabrese: And if I can’t answer that, I’m going to refer you to Adi.

Adi Klevit: That’s right. So, we’re all going to collaborate here, but it’s true. You know, just start, do something, you know, don’t go into this analysis paralysis thing because it just doesn’t work. [20:07]

Nancy Calabrese: I agree. Listen, folks, listen to this lady. So, for any of you out there that are frustrated because you don’t know how to train or as Adi mentioned, you know, you have a new employee, you’re switching roles and you don’t have a system in place, really take advantage of Adi’s expertise. She’ll get your business straight. And if you have any issues on a personal level, she can help you with that. So, Adi, thanks so much for spending time with us today. In the future, perhaps you can come back, and we can expand on this. And for everyone out there, make it an awesome systems day. And by the way, a sales day too. We’ll see you next time. [20:58]

Roger Martin: The Power of Empathy and Influence in Sales

by | Aug 27, 2024 | Podcast

About Roger Martin: Roger Martin is a Co-Founder and Managing Member of the industry-leading health and wellness franchises, RockBox Fitness and beem Light Sauna. Prior to RockBox Fitness and beem Light Sauna, operated as the Chief Operating Officer of a solid oral dosage pharmaceutical development and manufacturing organization. Previously served as President of a large topical semi-solid and liquid CDMO, as a National Sales Director and Sr. Vice President leading sales and marketing teams of up to 500 sales representatives in the specialty and big pharma market. Extensive expertise in pharmaceutical sales management, leadership, sales force deployment, business development, strategic selling, contract negotiation, business-to-business service contracting, licensing, and pharmaceutical and contracted service marketing. Knowledge of myriad dosage forms and therapeutic classes, as well as regulatory environments and payer systems. Check out the latest episode of our Conversational Selling podcast to learn more about Roger.

In this episode, Nancy and Roger discuss the following:

  • The definition of high-impact communication
  • The difference between persuasion, influence, and manipulation in sales
  • The importance of storytelling in sales, positioning the customer as the hero
  • The value of continual learning and personal investment versus traditional financial investments
  • Keypoints from Roger’s book, An Insider’s Guide to Business

Key Takeaways: 

  • The best way for a salesperson to make an impact in their industry, in the world, and on others is to start with genuinely understanding what their prospect needs.
  • Buying behavior is this: you’re telling a story, and the customer is the hero.
  • People will buy from people they like, but more people will buy from people whom they trust to solve their issue.

“High-impact communication, by my definition, is when two individuals have a complete, thorough, and empathetic understanding of each other’s wants and needs. And what do I mean by that? Whether it’s a personal relationship, a family relationship, a business relationship, or even a vendor-customer relationship, it’s about both sides understanding what each other needs to thrive in that relationship. Too often, especially in today’s digital world, communication becomes overly transactional. I love how you started by saying that every business and everything else starts with a human interaction.” – ROGER

“I appreciate the question because it will allow me to delineate the difference between persuasion, influence, and manipulation. And they are too often conflated. The consumer conflates them; even salespeople conflate the two when really persuasion and influence are about empathetically trying to understand what your pain point, your issue, your area of opportunity is—something that, you know, you’re at point A and you’re trying to get to point C, let’s say. And then I help through persuasion, and I’m going to persuade you to understand that this problem needs to be acted upon. If you think about it for a long time, if you just keep wondering about it, if you stress about it, you’re not going to solve your issue. So I’m going to persuade you that you need to take action. And I’m going to do that through very ethical means and just skillful means, but to help build that bridge—just think of, you know, in your mind, literally building a bridge over a small river from A to C, and my product or solution and support and services will help get you from A to C. Now, manipulation is, “Hey, I want to get you to C because I make a big commission off of it, but you really don’t need C, and your A is just fine for you, or another vendor would get you to C a lot easier and cheaper than me. But I’m going to use, you know, tricks and slick lines and all that, you know, to get you there.” […] People will always exchange money for a solution to a problem that is causing them pain or a solution to a problem that will help them grow to be even more successful. And too many times—and you know this—too many times a salesperson will boast about their company, they’ll boast about their track record, about their service record, about their customer satisfaction record. You know what? Those are great. The customer couldn’t care less. The customer wants to know, “Can you solve my problem?” You know, “Can you solve my problem?” – ROGER

“I would challenge them to continue learning, listen to Nancy’s podcast, you know, buy those $997 courses from genuine, great people that you can trust and who will deliver value. Go to that weekend seminar, invest the two grand to do that because you should be investing in yourself as much as you’re investing in your business and investing in the stock market. I mean, the stock market is going to make 8 to 10% over the long run. You put that same two grand into yourself, you can quintuple that money in a year. You know, to me, it’s a no-brainer about continual learning.” – ROGER

Connect with Roger Martin:

Try Our Proven, 3-Step System, Guaranteeing Accountability and Transparency that Drives RESULTS by clicking on this link: https://oneofakindsales.com/call-center-in-a-box/

Connect with Nancy Calabrese: 

Voiceover: You’re listening to The Conversational Selling Podcast with Nancy Calabrese.

Nancy Calabrese: Hi, it’s Nancy Calabrese, and it’s time again for Conversational selling – the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today and it always starts with the human conversation. Today we’re speaking with Roger Martin, who has built a 30 year sales, marketing and C level leadership career. He is the co -founder and CEO of two national franchise brands, Rockbox Fitness and Beam Light Sauna, as well as various other businesses. Roger has led teams as large as 500 people and knows the importance of clear, high impact communication. And throughout his career, he’s extensively studied human behavior, persuasion and influence and train thousands to communicate more effectively and inspirationally. Finally, he is the host of the Thrive More podcast and recently launched his book, An Insider’s Guide to Business, Secrets from an Entrepreneur’s Playbook. Boy, you’re a busy guy, Roger. Welcome to the show.

Roger Martin: Thank you. Yeah. I’m, after that I’m exhausted. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Thank you for having me. [1:31]

Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, what a promo. Yeah, I’m so excited to have you. So why don’t we start with this? What is high impact communication?

Roger Martin: Yeah. High impact communication. My definition is going to be when two individuals have a complete, thorough and empathetic understanding of each other’s wants and needs. And what do I mean by that? Whether you’re in a relationship, if it’s a personal relationship, a family relationship, a business relationship, which could even mean a vendor customer relationship, it’s about both sides understanding what each other needs to thrive in that relationship. And too many times, especially in today’s digital world, it’s so transactional. I love how you started off and said that every, you know, business, everything, everything starts with a human interaction. And I could not agree with you more. And we’re, you know, as much as the world is trying to digitize everything at the end of the day, we’re social creatures and we want to be heard, understood and seen. And, you know, this podcast being about sales and effective sales, the best way. The best way for a salesperson to make an impact in their industry, in the world and on others is to start with genuinely understanding what their prospect needs. Even if that means Nancy, I can’t help you. You know what? I actually don’t have a product or service that fits perfectly with what you’re looking to do. And you know, that that’s taking the high ground and being a very ethical salesperson, but that high impact communication is all about truly understanding the needs and the why, you know, we always talk about the why behind the why, but to me, think of it, think of it like an iceberg. You know, if you, if a lot of times the salesperson will find out what they think is the why, which is what the prospect is volunteered, which is the iceberg above the water. But until we get, you know, this 10 stories deep into the ocean down near the bottom, that’s the real reason they’re, they’re seeking to alleviate their pain points, whatever, you know, or see growth in the business. So I would just say, you know, that mutual understanding. [3:39]

Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, see, I also, when you’re describing this, it’s the ability to ask important questions of the prospect or the customer. And I think we earn trust by asking those questions and repeating back what we believe we heard. Now, you’re big into persuasion and influence. So how do you use those two things to drive more sales?

Roger Martin: Yeah. And I, and I appreciate the question because it will allow me to also, for your listeners, really delineate the difference between persuasion, influence and manipulation. And they are too often conflated. the consumer conflates them, even salespeople conflate the two when really persuasion influence is I’m empathetically trying to understand what your pain point, your issue, your area of opportunity is something that, you know, you’re at point A and you’re trying to get to point C, let’s say. And then I help through persuasion and I’m going to persuade you to understand that this problem needs to be acted upon. If you think about it for a long time, if you just keep wondering about it, if you stress about it, you’re not going to solve your issue. So I’m going to persuade you that you need to take action. And I’m going to do that through very, ethical means and just skillful means, but to help build that bridge, just think of, you know, in your mind, building a literally a bridge. You know, like over a small river from a to C and my product or solution and support and services will help get you from a to C. Now manipulation is, Hey, I want to get you to see, cause I make a big commission off of it, but you really don’t need C and your A’s just fine for you or another vendor would get you to see a lot easier and cheaper than me. But I’m going to use, you know, tricks and slick lines and all that, you know, to, to get you there. That’s manipulation and too often a salesperson is thinking about, my God, how do I close? How do I get them down this path? If they would slow down and listen, as you said, ask important questions, meaningful questions, and then ask, well, what did you mean by that? Tell me more about, I need to understand like what, so what happens if you don’t eliminate 15 % from your budget this year on manufacturing costs? I’m just making this up, you know, whatever, but If what is the impact? What is the impact to your career? What is the impact to your department? How about your company? What does that mean for job? Like getting much, much deeper there so that you can understand so that you can persuade and then influence somebody and influence is a positive term. So you, you use that to, you know, how do you drive sales? It goes back to you solve somebody’s problem. People will always exchange money for a solution to a problem that is causing them pain or solution to a problem that will help them grow to be even more successful. And too many times, and you know this too many times a salesperson will boast about their company. They’ll boast about their track record, about their service record, about their customer satisfaction record. You know what? Those are great. The customer couldn’t care less. The customer wants, can you solve my problem? You know, can you solve my problem? [7:00]

Nancy Calabrese: That’s right. Right.

Roger Martin: And so, persuasion and influence, and I’ve just, I’ve studied this extensively and buying behavior is it’s you’re telling a story, and the customer is the hero. You are simply the guide to get that customer down the path and safely over that bridge at a fair cost that allows you to make a fair profit as you should. It allows them to achieve their goal, but it is truly storytelling using them as the hero. And too many times, you know, I And I learned in the, you know, back in the nineties, you know, feature advantage benefit and, and, you know, that’s the cost. The consumer is so much more educated now, like the, the internet has democratized information. And so, the, the old way of selling may still work at times, but it’s not going to be nearly as effective. And it’s, you’re not going to be able to help as many people using those old tactics of, you know, feature advantage benefit and my company and our reputation. That’s you’re very limited that way. [8:00]

Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. Do you think that there are still a lot of old school salespeople out there?

Roger Martin: I think there are some still very successful salespeople, men and women who sell on relationship, and you know, they believe that people will buy from people they like. And I can’t disagree with that statement, but I would challenge the statement that yes, people will buy from people they like, but more people will buy from people whom they trust to solve their issue. And you know, you, you want to be liked by your customers. Everybody wants to be liked. But I would rather be trusted and be the person that they lean into. Whether we have, you know, whether we both enjoy baseball or, or, or cooking or whatever, you know, you always try to find these commonalities. And I get that. And there’s a lot of, there is neuroscience behind talking about nostalgic events that tie you together and, and take that person back to a happier place in life. And like, you know, I’ve studied NLP and there’s definitely, there’s definitely science and it works, but Boy, it’s a lot of work too. When you can just focus on the customer and then try to, instead of trying to stay five steps ahead of the customer, just stay right with them and understand them so that you can move them to a better place. Yeah. [9:17]

Nancy Calabrese: So, I’m just curious, you’ve got great business building experience, and you helped grow two national franchises. How has your background in building businesses helped you do that?

Roger Martin: Yep. So, Nancy, the, the real abridged version of this is I spent 25 years in corporate America. I’m very grateful for the time I spent in the pharmaceutical industry, which is where I spent all 25 years. I worked for fortune 50 companies down to, you know, I worked for private equity. Then I worked for like a family office that owned a company and you know, corporate America gets a bad rap and they should in a lot of ways, but in the same token, I was very fortunate that they invested a lot in me in my, in my, you know, leadership and, and, and mentoring skills and, again, finance and operations, all those skills that you need to run a business. I was able to learn that on someone else’s dime, but also give them, you know, a 10 X return on their investment in me. And so I’ve made a lot of people, a lot of money because they’ve invested in me. But in 2016, end of 16, I just had this epiphanal moment, you know, the whole story behind it, but it’s an epiphanal moment where I said to myself, I’m not happy doing this anymore. I was a chief operating officer at that time. And, you know, I’d started in the business as a sales rep and I just, I wasn’t enjoying what I was doing anymore. And it didn’t matter how much money I made. It didn’t matter the title. It just, it wasn’t, it wasn’t scratching the itch. And then, so in two, that early 2017, I, I transitioned out. I had a succession plan and all that made sure I finished impeccably to your listeners, always finished impeccably, whether it a job with a customer relationship, always finished impeccably. But, you know, I worked to do that. And then I, I left a multi multi six figure job and stock options and healthcare and all that stuff on a Friday and woke up on a Monday morning for the first time in my life, unemployed, you know, no salary, no health insurance, all that. And yes, it was scary as could be. It was scary as hell but on, on Tuesday, you know, and I had a plan. I was, it was to start this company called rock box fitness, which is a group fitness concept boxing, kickboxing and functional strength training. Nobody gets punched in the face. It’s, it’s, it’s bags and it’s all, all for a fitness set to music and color changing lighting. It feels almost like you’re in a nightclub or rock concert. And, you know, we, I wanted to grow this as a national franchise with a business partner I had recently met. And I, I honestly, it, it wasn’t, I wouldn’t say it was incredibly challenging to transfer my skills that I had learned building divisions building sales teams, building marketing groups, building, you know, manufacturing companies, because that all directly applied into my entrepreneurial journey. What I wasn’t ready for was the nothing ever goes the way you expect it. And it’s your checkbook. It’s your checking account that is coming out of right when, you know, when you work for big companies, something goes wrong. You’re like, okay, we screwed up. We need to fix this. Let’s, but you still get paid when you’re an entrepreneur, something goes sideways you don’t get, you don’t make any money. So, that, that will mature somebody at a, at a, at an exponential rate. And, you know, I, so I had to of course go through all of that learning and entrepreneur does, and I still do, seven, eight years into this, but I’m fortunate that I was able to learn a lot of those skills and I, and then I continued my learning. So if there’s any, you know, any, any message I can give to your listeners, Nancy, it’s, you know, when you’re done with school and I have my, I went back and got my MBA when I was, 30. That’s great. But my learning has, has really ramped up almost like a hockey stick when it comes to not just on the job, you know, learning as an entrepreneur, but listening to podcasts like yours, reading every book I can, you know, I read 60, 70 books a year and that’s not, that’s not a sound bite for you. I literally read 60 to 70 books a year. I just devour them because I, and I’ll go back and read some of them twice. So some of those 60, 70s, me going back to read a book that I read like three years ago, but want to revisit it. Cause now I, you know, the, the, the teacher appears when the student is ready. Right. And so, some of these books hit me a different way three years later after I’ve read them. And I still go back probably every four years and read how to win friends and influence people because it’s, you know, it’s just, it’s, it’s timeless. And, and, and so, you know, to your listeners, I would, I would challenge that it challenged them to continue learning, listen to Nancy’s podcast, you know, buy those 997 courses from, you know, genuine great people that, that, you know, that you can trust and will deliver value go to that weekend seminar, invest the two grand to do that because you should be investing in yourself as much as you’re investing in your business and investing in the stock market. I mean, stock market, you’re going to make eight to 10 % over the long run. You put that same two grand into yourself. You can quintuple that money in a year. You know, it’s it to me, it’s a no brainer about continual learning and, and Invest in the somebody, it’s not my line, but I love this, you know, invest, invest in the S and me 500, not the S and P 500. [14:27]

Nancy Calabrese: I love it. I love it. You know, and I’m a big believer in investing in yourself. Keep yourself in the mix of ongoing training, learn new techniques, be around new people. I mean, I would be bored if I didn’t approach life that way myself. Okay, so let’s talk about your book, An Insider’s Guide to Business, Secrets from an Entrepreneur’s Playbook. What’s it about and what motivated you to write it?

Roger Martin: Thank you for the question. And I just want to start off with saying that all proceeds from this book from the first day it was published until, you know, it ever goes out of print are going 100 % of it. I don’t make a red sun off this book. They’re all being donated to charity called To Write Love on Her Arms, which is a charity that helps support people with mental health struggles, including suicide prevention. Rockbox Fitness is it’s our national charity partner and we really believe that. You know, strong body is wonderful, but you need a strong body and a strong mind. And in today’s world, you know, a lot of people are struggling with their mental health. So it’s, you know, available on Amazon, Kindle or the paperback. And again, whomever buys it, just know they’re supporting a charity and it goes a long way. So this book I wrote because again, I’ve read some, I’ve read, we’ve all read good to great, you know, we’ve all read some of these, you know, CEO excellence and execution and these, you know, these, these standard books. And I’ve read every Jack Welsh book. But what didn’t seem to be on the market was a book from somebody that was running a small to midsize business, you know, from, from 10 to $50 million and has scaled the business and has done it several times. you know, I could certainly buy books and I have, and I love them reading these founders books of, you know, Hey, I started this company and built it to, you know, a billion dollars. Well, that’s great, but most of us are not going to get there, you know, and I, I hope I do, but I don’t know if, you know, I haven’t. And so I can’t write that book who I can write a book for are the people that were me seven or eight years ago and were, you know, in a job that wasn’t fulfilling and now they’re ready to go out on their own or they have a company, but they’re stuck. You know, they’ve got it to a certain level of revenue and they can’t get it above that. And that’s what this book is for. It’s, it’s, it’s written, in, you know, this modular format and very simple. I, I wrote the book pretty quickly, but then I took four months of doing edits and literally did seven full cover to cover edits, meaning I had, I had four or five different people that were helping me. And it’s a real book by the way, no AI, no ghostwriter. This is me pecking out 46 ,000 words on my, on my laptop. But, but I definitely wanted to simplify this down to, you know, could, could a kid in high school read this book and know how to build a business. And then could a 45 or 50 year old executive read this book? and get just as much out of it and know how to start scale staff and build their business. And, and I believe I’ve gotten there because I’ve made it, I, you know, instead of long flowery, you know, flowery language and long, you know, compound sentences, I tried to make it just really straightforward, you know, 10, 12 page chapters that you could really digest and go back and use as a reference. But in addition, I included story format. So I, you know, I don’t just say, Hey, you should do this because I say you should do this because let me tell you about a story. I didn’t do it that way and got my nose punched in, you know, by business and you know, and, or let me tell you a story how, you know, something was wrong and here’s what I did to correct it. And here’s what I’ve learned from experts that have already been there and done that. And so there’s always usually a good story to start the chapter or to finish the chapter that makes it concrete and more of a fun read. You know, if something’s dry and boring, even, you know, I don’t enjoy it. So I wanted to write it in a way that was compelling and people enjoyed what they were reading, but also could glean a lot of information from. [18:28]

Nancy Calabrese: Well, people love stories. They just do, you know, and I think even in sales, third party stories really get the attention of your prospects. So it sounds like a great book. And, you know, we’re wrapping up a little bit, but I just want to talk about your Thrive More podcast. What kind of topics do you discuss?

Roger Martin: Yeah. So we focus on like yours is, is, is focused on selling. And I love that. I can talk about that all day. I’ve really, opened my podcast up to business health and wealth. And so we’ll have discussions around persuasion influence, but a lot of times around business building business, I’ll have a lot of people that have built a business. but I’ve also had, you know, I’ve had like Chris Voss, who’s a, a master FBI negotiator. And we talked about persuasion influence, which is really selling. I’ve had a hypnotist that’s, that has a show on the sunset on the, on the Las Vegas strip. but, but that was really around mental health because he, he, he had some real struggles with that and he talks very openly about it and great episode for the listeners to hear. So it’s business health and wealth. I’ll have a nutritionist on one day and the next day I’ll have somebody talking about how to, you know, leverage your financing. so I want to be able to help people where they, Want to have help and they may go through the list of topics, you know, i’ve got i don’t know 70 80 shows now They may you know see hey that one really doesn’t apply to me, but this one does and i want you know, we’ll listen to that so It’s a show. I love to do again It’s i do it because I love it just like you I love having these conversations and if I can give back to somebody that is again Five ten fifteen twenty years behind where i’m at just in this journey of life as we call it you know, that’s hopefully that’s that’s my my gift back. [20:21]

Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. I think that’s great. So how can my people find you?

Roger Martin: Yeah, thank you. So, a couple ways. One, they can follow me on socials on any of the socials, LinkedIn, Instagram and YouTube at Real Roger Martin. That’s just real and R O G E R Martin. so, at real Roger Martin, or they can go to thrive more brands .com. So, rock box fitness, beam light sauna, which is another brand we have, they’re under really this, this platform that we call thrive more brands. And if they go to thrive more brands .com, you know, they’ll, if they, you know, there’s no obligation where they can learn about franchising. They can learn about, if they have a business, they’re thinking about franchising. They can learn more there. the book link is on there. I think the podcast link is on there. Sometimes I do speak like this past week, and I was doing a speaking event. they can, you know, see where I’m going to be there. So, thrive more brands .com or just follow me at real Roger Martin. [21:17]

Nancy Calabrese: Wonderful. Listen, folks, he’s the go -to guy and I’m gonna grab myself a copy of your book. I think, especially since you said you made it very simple and easy to read and not too flowery. That’s right up my alley. Yeah, yeah. So, thanks so much for being on the show. People go and get his book, reach out to Roger and until we see you again.

Roger Martin: Wonderful. There you go. Give me the facts, yeah.

Nancy Calabrese: Make it an awesome sales day. And you know what, as Roger said, invest in yourself. So we’ll talk to you sooner than you think. Have a good one. [21:59]