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Laurel Bernstein | How Active Listening Can Help You Sell More Effectively

by | Oct 20, 2020 | Podcast

On this week’s episode of Conversational Selling, we sit down with Laurel Bernstein, Founder and President of Laurel Bernstein and Associates, a consulting and training firm providing performance and leadership skill training for business professionals. Laurel has an extensive background as a facilitator and trainer and aims to be able to help and advise business owners on their business models and team development.

“I spent the first 25 years of my life as a painfully shy person; in groups I rarely had anything to say. But, I started to study listening skills and learned that you don’t have to be born a good listener, it’s actually a skill you can learn. So, I became a student of listening, and as a result, I would hear and observe things that people didn’t even realize. I realized that I knew a lot more about what was going on in a room than the people who were participating,” says Laurel.

We chat about what sets Laurel apart from others in her field, as well as:

  • How active listening can help you sell more effectively
  • Her tips for keeping sales skills sharp
  • Why every conversation is a negotiation
  • What makes someone successful in sales
  • And more

Listen now…

Mentioned in this episode:

 

Transcript

Nancy Calabrese: Hi everybody and welcome to Conversational Selling. It’s the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today. And it all starts with the human conversation. I’m your host, Nancy Calabrese, and it’s fantastic to have with me today, Laurel Bernstein, the founder and president of Laurel Bernstein and Associates, a consulting and training firm providing performance and leadership skill training for business professionals.

She has an extensive background as a highly effective facilitator and trainer. Laurel advises many companies helping owners evaluate their business model and team development. And she has the astounding ability to listen in ways most of us don’t. And I can’t wait to hear more about that. Laurel is a staple here at One of a Kind Sales. We couldn’t live without her. Thanks so much for joining us today, Laurel.

Laurel Bernstein: Well, Nancy, as I said, I’m honored because you have a high standard.

Nancy: Oh, okay. Well, I guess I’ve been accused of worse before, right?

Laurel: No, but thank you. I’m really delighted to be here. And I’m really delighted to talk to you more about the importance of listening, especially in sales.

Nancy: Sure. You know, you and I have gotten to know each other over the years. And, you know, I’m always amazed at your successful career and in your wealth of knowledge. I mean, any question I have, you have an answer for, you’re my go-to for everything. I’m just curious, you spent many years in corporate. What made you leave to become a certified executive coach?

Why Laurel Chose to Leave Her Job and Start Her Own Coaching Firm

Laurel: The reason I left is that two or three years before I actually did leave, I started to think about what am I going to do next. And I had made an entire career of being in charge, always in charge of something. And I really wanted to think about my next act. And I didn’t want to be let go like people were being let go after long careers.

So I wanted to plan my own exit. And so I had always been advising senior leaders, so decided to go to business school to become a certified executive coach. And fortunately, the company that I was working for allowed me to have five or six internal clients so that I could get good at what I was doing. And once I got good, I decided I want to do, instead of saving the company I was working for millions of dollars, maybe I wanted to go out on my own and make millions of dollars.

Nancy: Hey, I like that thinking. And I’ll take that any day. Now that, you know, obviously, when you hear the word executive coach, what comes to my mind is you work in a highly saturated space. And again, I know firsthand, you’re amazing. But what unique idea, sets what you do apart from the others?

Laurel: So to be very honest, I spent the first 25 years of my life as a painfully shy person. I would be in groups of even as little as three or 33 and I would never say anything. I very rarely had anything to say. And I wasn’t even uncomfortable about it. But because I was watching and listening and hearing, seeing people roll their eyes and I became so good at listening.

So I started to study listening skills and learned that you don’t have to be born a good listener. It’s actually a skill you can learn. So I became a student of listening. And as a result, I would hear things that weren’t there and I would hear and observe things that people didn’t even realize. And I realized that I knew a lot more about what was going on in the room than the people participating.

Nancy: Wow. You know, and in sales, as you know, it requires a lot of skills. But one of the most important skill, I think the most important skill is the people’s ability to listen. And you’ve often told me and my team that I’m trained to listen differently. How is that? You know, I want to know more. I’m sure my audience does.

A Different Approach to Listening

Laurel: Okay. So this is really important to understand. And I’m going to give you a little background story. I went to a networking event. We were sitting around a big table and there were 17 people, including myself. And when I have people introduce themselves, I like to go first because otherwise, I’m sitting here at the table, practicing what I’m going to say and practicing what I’m going to say and then I’m not listening to anybody else. So I sat in the spot where I could go first.

But unfortunately, the leader started elsewhere in the room. So I decided I was going to write one thing down about each person in the room. Just one thing that was outstanding that I would want to remember. And then when it got to me, I was the last person, I went around the room and I said to each person, I’m going to tell you what I remembered from your presentation and then you’re going to tell me if that’s what you want to be remembered for. And if you don’t want to be remembered for that, you get to do a do-over.

So, out of 17 people, there were nine people who did do-overs because truthfully, I was the only one in that room that was listening. Everybody else was preparing what they had to say. It was pretty obvious when they said what they had to say but they hadn’t heard anything that happened before. And I really, as a result, wound up with two clients in that room that signed up to my active listening workshop.

Nancy: Wow. I mean, that’s pretty amazing. So can you talk to us more about that workshop? What’s it like?

Laurel: All right, so I’m going to give you sort of like an intro so that you can feel what the workshop is like. One of the first things that I do is I said, say, we’re not going to introduce ourselves. So what we’re going to do is we’re going to talk about our favorite room, and it needs to have texture and color and function. And why you love it, why it is your favorite room. It doesn’t even have to be a room in your home. It could be your deck, it could be a room that you stayed in at the Biltmore Hotel.

It could be any room that just was perfect for you that you love. And so we go around the room and everybody does that. And what I then do is I asked them one at a time to tell me one thing that they know about every other person in the room without repeating something they said. So in other words, if they said, I have a red couch in my living room that’s so furry and comfortable, and I stretch out on it every night after dinner, you can’t say any of those words.

You have to say something about the person you learned from hearing the things they said. So what we’re looking for is, well, you know, she knows how to unwind because lying on the couch was unwinding. It wasn’t about that Nancy has a red couch, it was that she got a place to lie down in her favorite room where she knows how to unwind. And so all the attributes of a person come out when they’re talking about something they care about. And if you’re really listening, you can know them.

Nancy: Wow. So how long does it take to develop a skill like that?

Laurel: My workshop is nine sessions. They’re an hour and 15 minutes each. Usually, you press to really materialize around session number four. And I have to admit that there are occasionally some people that get all the way through the program and they still are unable to listen to cutely. They are better, but they don’t really learn how to listen with a third year.

Nancy: Right. So let’s talk about what you do and how it would benefit people in sales.

If You’re Talking, You’re not Learning

Laurel: So, people in general like to talk about themselves. They are, if you ask somebody tell me something about yourself, they like to do that. And so if you’re talking, you’re not learning anything about them because they’re not talking. I would think that in a sales situation, the more you knew about a person, the better the conversation will be. And if you really want to know, you have to listen.

And you have to keep prompting them. One of my favorite books of all times, Tell Me More. And that was just something that in a conversation, a woman would say over and over again, tell me more. And it would really allow somebody to really tell you what they need. And then from a sales perspective, then when you hear what they need, you can then tell them you understand that and that you can provide that for them in a way that they can receive it because they’ve just told you they need it.

Nancy: Yeah. So is this the kind of training, you know, I know, there were a training programs people invest in, and then maybe they’ll do it, right? For a period of time. What is your recommendation to keep your skills sharp? Again, in sales, I think it’s the most important skill. So do you have any techniques or any go-to places you would recommend people spend time each week and just, you know, revisit or learn new techniques?

Laurel: So what I can explain which can be recreated very easily at the end of the workshop, we define what areas of listening people are still struggling with. And then what we do is we have one final videotaping of each person’s listening skills test. And we have them do it over and over and over again until the skill is built. We’ve provided a way for them to do that on a regular basis until it gels for them. The listening skills requires another person to practice and that’s what we provide.

Nancy: Okay, and you do this, you can do this virtually?

Laurel: Oh, yeah, it’s better done virtually, actually because then you can record the visual.

Nancy: Okay, so generally speaking, what do you think makes a person more or less successful in sales?

Every Conversation is a Negotiation

Laurel: So I think that one of the things that is one of the most important things is that they don’t ever sell, they need to know that every single conversation you have with another human being in a negotiation. So you want to go to a movie with, or you want to choose a movie to download with a friend. So you say, What do you feel like watching? Do you want to do a rom com? Do you want to do a shoot em up?

You want adventure? Do you want to do sci-fi? You’re negotiating, right? Well, I really thought I wanted to do this. Well, I heard that wasn’t so good. And it goes back and forth and back and forth as a negotiation. Every conversation that any two people have is a negotiation. So I think salespeople from listening, can benefit so much because they are hearing what they need to hear to negotiate effectively.

Nancy: Yeah. And, you know, when you really pay attention and understand what they need, they are pretty much telling you how to sell them, right? by listening and letting them talk. And we love that phrase here, tell me more. We use it all the time and just try to keep quiet. I think there’s a stat 70% of the time, prospects should be talking, 30% of the time we should be talking. So I think this is really amazing. And frankly, I haven’t heard of a program like this. You may have just answered this, but I’m going to ask you this anyway. Tell me something that’s true that nobody agrees with you on.

Laurel: Well, that every conversation is a negotiation. It’s hard for people to think that they’re doing it all the time. And I’ve never really gotten anybody to say yeah, I guess you’re right. But I did, you know, I did think it through and it really, that’s how it comes out. Every interaction.

Nancy: Wow. I know that you and I spoke earlier about how you quote your father, and it’s endearing. And I saw something on your LinkedIn profile talking about the forcers and the unforcers. And I wonder if we could just tie it into what we’ve been talking about.

Forcers vs Unforcers

Laurel: Well, absolutely. Let me give you a quick summary of the story that I wrote. My father believes that the room, the dichotomy that he lives by were the people who forced things and the people who were patient and would keep things calmer. And his example was that if you are trying to get a light bulb out of the ceiling lamp, and doesn’t come out easily, the person who is a forcer, is going to grab it and turn it and the bolt could break in their hands.

And more than not, they get hurt. But the person who is patient and waits, wiggles it a little bit, turns it off, thinking maybe if it pulls down a little bit it’ll come out easier. And they almost never make a mistake. And I think in sales, it’s the same kind of thing. If you’re trying to force a sale, uh oh, I don’t, nobody likes to feel that. Nobody wants to be on the receiving end of something that’s being forced at them. But if you’re gentle and you’re listening, and you’re waiting to see what a person needs and you really hear them, the patient person will come out on the right side of the sale.

Nancy: Awesome. Yep, I completely agree with you. So what’s the one takeaway you’d like to leave the audience with?

Laurel: Alright, so there’s this program called StoryCorps, started 17 years ago by a fella named Robert Isay. And what you can do is go into a booth, they started in Grand Central Station in New York, and you could go with a grandparent or a parent or spouse and interview them. And the interview would be stored in the Library of Congress. And after 17 years, now you can do it online. You can do it with your cousin in California.

And these interviews are golden. They’re just beautiful. And they interviewed Robert Isay about on the 10th anniversary to ask him what he learned from starting StoryCorps, and he said, first of all, I learned that listening is an act of love. And then he said, I also learned that when you’re talking, you’re only telling people what you know. But when you’re listening, you’re learning something new.

Nancy: Oh, wow. Laurel, I’m sure my audience wants to reach out to you. How can they find you?

Laurel: They can find me at www.laurelbernstein.com or laurel@laurelBernstein.com.

Nancy: Wonderful. Another great conversation with Laurel Bernstein. I highly recommend to any of you out there, if you have interest in what we’ve just discussed and she shared with us, be sure to reach out to Laurel. My team and I are going to participate in this active listening workshop. We can’t wait to get started. And additionally, for those that might have an interest in relying on a professional to turn to who’s got the answers for everything, I highly recommend. Laurel. Thank you so much for coming on today.

Laurel: Well, thank you. I really had fun. This is great.

Active Listening – it’s more than just ‘hearing’ what your prospect is saying!

by | Oct 8, 2019 | Best Sales Practices, Cold Calling Tips

At One of a Kind Sales, we spend a LOT of time training our people to ACTIVELY LISTEN. Picking up the phone and dialing MAY get you to the right person but active listening is the real secret to setting qualified appointments and sales success! 

Can you hear me? 

A basic Cold Calling requirement is being able to HEAR the prospect. That means setting yourself up so there is no background noise or music to distract you and having a headset with adequate volume controls. Close all your extraneous browser windows and shut off your personal phone so you are not tempted to check email, texts or social media.  

It’s not just hearing them… 

ACTIVE listening involves more than just HEARING what your prospect is saying. It means UNDERSTANDING what is being said, and oftentimes, being able to hear and understand the UNSPOKEN context. Actively listening will enable you to ‘hear’ the prospect’s body language through the tone, volume and words they are using. It means noticing shifts in that tone or changes in the volume and then modulating your own tone and words in response. 

Active listening involves paying attention to what is said and using the prospect’s responses to formulate your own statements.  

Active listening tactics 

We recommend a number of tactics to do this: 

  • Paraphrasing – which is where you restate some of the prospects replies but in your own words.  
  • Summarizing – where you provide a summary of the process or discussion to give an overview and context. 
  • Clarification – where you restate and/or explain things to make sure you are all on the same page. ASK for clarification on a point or statement to keep the prospect talking about their issues. 
  • Reflection – where you reflect the prospect’s words back to them to help them understand what you are hearing. 

Note that ALL of the above require you to have HEARD not just the prospect’s words but the intentions behind those words. Pay attention, listen carefully and you will be rewarded with valuable insights and you will, more importantly, earn their trust! They can tell when you are listening and will appreciate that you have HEARD them.  

Resources 

Because we know that ACTIVE LISTENING is such an important skill, we have collected many useful resources on this topic. Here are a few articles and videos we think can help YOU improve YOUR active listening skills: 

Christian Palmer: Demystifying Sales Enablement

by | Apr 18, 2024 | Podcast

About Christian Palmer: Christian Palmer is the Senior Manager of Sales Enablement at Justt, the only company fighting chargeback disputes for merchants and winning. Christian’s background includes working as an L&D Consultant/Sales Trainer at Phaidon International, where they provided foundational academy training to new consultants and coached and mentored them on both team and individual levels. Christian also worked as a Clinical Consultant at ProClinical, a global recruitment company specializing in the life sciences industry. Earlier in their career, Christian worked as an Associate Consultant at Real Staffing, an international pharmaceutical recruitment agency, and as a Corporate Recruiter/HR Associate at Dutch-X. Christian began their professional journey at Apple, where they served as an Expert. Christian Palmer, M.S.Ed., has diverse experience in sales enablement, recruitment, learning and development, and leadership roles. Check out the latest episode of our Conversational Selling podcast to learn more about Christian.

In this episode, Nancy and Christian discuss the following:

  • Definition of sales enablement
  • Importance of sales enablement within a company
  • Necessary tools for enablement
  • Role of sales playbook in enablement
  • Enablement in one-person teams vs. global departments

Key Takeaways: 

  • It’s of tremendous value to businesses to bring somebody who can identify the gaps first, then fill them in and be the main voice for the salespeople.
  • I’ve only seen playbooks succeed at larger organizations with more structure and infrastructure.
  • Everything you say will not be listened to if you don’t have it.

“Sales enablement can be defined in a number of different ways. Because it is such a newer field, it tends to get mis-defined if that’s a phrase all the time. And the best way for me to describe it is essentially twofold. I’ll probably start with the more form formal definition of it. That is to provide the tools, resources, skills, processes, and infrastructure for sellers to enable them to be more efficient, skilled, and proficient with their actual product offering to sell more effectively over time. That is the more formal side, but I would say maybe something a little bit softer that I guess you could say is more layperson’s terms for folks is going to be that I am more or less bridge or support system or the voice of the salespeople. And that can stretch across different cross-functional teams to senior leadership and stakeholders and be able to bridge that gap between what’s going on in the ground with sellers and what’s happening strategically in the organization.” – CHRISTIAN

“In probably an ideal world is that you have your LMS, your learning management system, that you’re able to create content with and a CMS, a content management system, of which you’re able to organize that content of what you made in the LMS into a digestible format for sellers and anybody else looking at it. Both of those tools, more so the CMS, should be able to help you measure success rates of reps over time. That could be done in a number of ways, through their behaviors, actions, and results, corresponding those specific results to maybe some items that they had done during the onboarding within that CMS. But those are probably the main tools. You could throw in another authoring tool or whatnot if you wanted to facilitate making even more differentiated content, like maybe an articulate or something along those lines. Any place that doesn’t have either of those. It will be a bit more of a lift for an enabler to assemble something. Those tools make it a lot easier. But there’s a ton of them out there. It’s hard to know what’s going to be best.” – CHRISTIAN

“I think the easiest way, or the standard way you’ll see amongst most enablers, especially those with sales experience, is leveraging that you’ve been there before. Of course, this gets harder the longer you’re not in a sales role. The harder it’s going to be to align. However, I think the main foundational selling parts don’t change. So, those aspects are what you can align with a rep. Whether it’s somebody going on a performance improvement plan, I’ve been on it several times in my career. One time, it didn’t work out too great; the other time, it worked out for me. Using that as leverage and explaining to a seller, like, hey, look, this isn’t the end; it’s just the beginning, shows vulnerability on my part and shows them that I can relate to what this is—the vulnerability aspect I bring up because that’s how you build relationships with anybody. So, whether or not they’re actual sellers doesn’t matter as much to me. But the fact that they are, and I go in and let them know maybe areas that I’m weak in upfront, maybe areas that I know I’m strong in or where I think I can help them, and start adding value to them without them even asking for it.

An example of this would be if you come into an organization where you don’t have industry knowledge. This is very much how it was at Riskified for me. I knew nothing about chargebacks or the fraud or policy abuse space. But I did know all the different selling skills I’ve accumulated and enabled over the years. So, I was able to come in and create sessions and content and additional resources around some of these skills that were agnostic to what Riskified is and what industry it’s in.” – CHRISTIAN

Connect with Christian Palmer:

Try Our Proven, 3-Step System, Guaranteeing Accountability and Transparency that Drives RESULTS by clicking on this link: https://oneofakindsales.com/call-center-in-a-box/

Connect with Nancy Calabrese: 

Voiceover: You’re listening to The Conversational Selling Podcast with Nancy Calabrese.

Nancy Calabrese: Hi, it’s Nancy Calabrese, and it’s time again for Conversational selling – the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today and it always starts with the human conversation. Today we’re speaking with Christian Palmer, a global revenue enablement manager at Riskified Global Enablement Team. His company focuses primarily on global onboarding and coaching. Christian has a combined 11 years within sales and enablement. Starting off in the hospitality and retail world, he honed his skills within customer service. This translated to the recruitment third party staffing world, where he moved from individual contributor to sales trainer. His enablement career started there. And since then, he’s been fortunate to work with a number of early stage startups. It is a pleasure to have you on the show, Christian. Let’s dive right in.

Christian Palmer: Heck of an intro, Nancy. Thank you so much for having me. [1:18]

Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, I’m excited. You know, but I have to tell you, global revenue enablement manager is a tongue twister. I had to practice that a few times to get it straight. I guess it’s something that you get used to, but let’s just start with the basics. Tell everyone what sales enablement means.

Christian Palmer: I want to preface this with sales enablement can be defined in a number of different ways. And quite frankly, because it is such a newer field, it tends to get mis-defined, if that’s a phrase all the time. And the best way for me to describe it is essentially twofold. I’ll start with probably the more form formal definition of it. And that is to be able to provide the tools, resources, skills, processes, and infrastructure for sellers to enable them to be more efficient, skilled, and proficient with their actual product offering to be able to sell more effectively over time. That is the more formal side, but I would say maybe something that’s a little bit softer that I guess you could say is more layman’s terms for folks is going to be that I am more or less bridge or support system or the voice of the salespeople. And that can stretch across different cross-functional teams to senior leadership and stakeholders and really be able to bridge that gap between what’s going on in the ground with sellers and what’s happening strategically in the organization. [2:55]

Nancy Calabrese: Great. Oh, you said sales enablement is relatively new. How new is it?

Christian Palmer: You know, I don’t have like, I guess the official point of when it started, but I will say I did not really see the word enablement until around like four or five years ago. And it was honestly it was around the time when I had started my tenure as a trainer, and I was doing enablement work before the word enablement even came up. Yeah. [3:23]

Nancy Calabrese: Okay. Huh, okay. So why is this so important, you know, to implement within a company?

Christian Palmer: I think it’s being able to have businesses strike a balance between the activities that most folks in a go-to-market organization, as far as the go-to-market function of a business is concerned, to be able to speak effectively on all the different things that are going on within the seller’s function and be able to translate that to other areas of the business um, or largest businesses need somebody like an enablement person on their side and on their team because they help bring their expertise, maybe as an individual contributor in their past sales life or other, um, you know, maybe other, uh, prerequisites that they bring to the table. Um, but also I think, uh, on the other end of it, they want to have somebody who’s able to come in and make the sellers better and more successful. And not to say, um, you know, a sales manager could not do that. A senior sales leader could not do that, or you know, maybe anybody else high up. A lot of the times, even the time I’ve been a sales manager, I did a lot of enablement work, but being a resource to them, not only coaching their reps and onboarding their reps and doing all the other associated enablement activities, but also working with the managers to help them get better as well. And I end up being, more of a resource and a support system and a true partner in the strategic aspects of the business, but also on the ground level working with reps directly. So, it’s of tremendous value to businesses to bring somebody on like that, that’s going to be able to really fill in the gaps, identify, I’m sorry, identify the gaps first, then fill them in and be able to be that main voice for the salespeople. [5:21]

Nancy Calabrese: Sure. What are some of the tools you mentioned that are necessary for enablement?

Christian Palmer: You know, I’ve been in roles where I’ve had absolutely nothing except my Google account. You know, I’ve had to deal with just having spreadsheets and organizing everything and what I like to say a spreadsheet, HE double hockey sticks. That’s essentially what it is. And then using docs and everything else accordingly. But I would say in probably a more ideal world is that you have your LMS, you’re learning management system, that you’re able to create content with, and a CMS, a content management system, of which you’re able to organize that content of what you made in the LMS into a digestible format for sellers and for anybody else looking at it. Both of those tools, more so the CMS, should be able to help you measure success rates of reps over time. That could be done in a number of ways, through their behaviors, through their actions, their results, corresponding those specific results to maybe some items that they had done during the onboarding that are within that CMS. But I would say like those are probably the main tools and you could probably throw in another authoring tool or whatnot if you wanted to facilitate making even more differentiated content, like maybe an articulate or something along those lines. But I would say any place that doesn’t have either of those. Obviously, it is going to be a little bit more of a lift for an enabler to put something together. Those tools make it a lot easier. But there’s a ton of them out there. It’s hard to know what’s going to be best. I’ve worked with a bunch of them, so it can be difficult. So, I see it from both sides, but certainly those two would be the most important. [7:15]

Nancy Calabrese: So, is creating like a sales playbook part of sales enablement?

Christian Palmer: I would say not always, but a lot of the times, yes. I have been tasked with making a playbook in past roles. I think playbooks can take on different formats. They sometimes can be a tool to help upskill folks maybe on industry or product knowledge. You know, when there is a complex sale at hand and maybe you have people or sellers coming into the role that you know, don’t have that experience upfront. So, for instance, like Riskified is in the fraud management space within finance. And I think, you know, if you don’t know all the specific jargon coming into the business, a playbook for that could be of tremendous value to be able to upscale really, quickly, and early. But also, in addition to that, I would say playbooks themselves are only going to be as good as your best rep. [8:20]

Nancy Calabrese: Okay.

Christian Palmer: And the reason why is because a lot of times, I’ve been in this situation before, you get asked or suggested to make a PlayBic or you take it upon yourself to make one, you put what you think is out there as best practice to sell product or product suite effectively, let’s say, and it doesn’t always resonate with every single person. You must know what good looks like first within your organization before you can then put that down in writing and say, this is how it’s going to be, and people can then follow it. I’ve only seen playbooks be really successful at larger orgs that have more structure and infrastructure in place where the sale is a little bit blacker and whiter than it is all over the place in gray, not knowing how to make a quote, having different types of products, different personas and things of that nature. [9:15]

Nancy Calabrese: Huh, so where should enablement sit within an organization?

Christian Palmer: It’s a great question. It’s a question I’ve been guests on other podcasts where this was the entire topic. It’s fun to think about, you know, and I think different orgs would say and argue that it should sit with maybe marketing, maybe your revenue operations team. Those are probably the most common non-sales functions I’ve seen enablement report into. It really is going to be dependent on how built out or not built out your executive leadership team is, I would say generally, it should report into a VP of sales or whatever senior equivalent there is for sales. And the reason for that is because everyone’s goals, metrics, and things they’re working towards are going to be the most aligned in that regard. Whereas if you are, let’s say, reporting into a marketing, a CMO, um, you know, perhaps somebody else in a, in another part of the organization, uh, those folks tend to have different goals and metrics and things that they’re working towards where your roles and responsibilities may not correspond with that. So, I would say it’s, it’s harder to be set up for success in those situations. And on the softer side of things, you don’t have as much buy-in, um, cause you’re not a marketer. You’re not, um, a revenue operation professional, although it’s somewhat close. And, if you’re on the sales side of things, you’re going to be like kind of one of them if that makes sense. Not to put salespeople in a box, but let’s be real, right? If you’re not a part of the sales org, you’re going to get looked at a certain way. So, I think that that’s proven to be the most successful in my eyes as far as like organizational structure. [11:11]

Nancy Calabrese: Okay. And you mentioned revenue operations. So how, how would you suggest to best work with that department for successful outcomes?

Christian Palmer: Definitely, I think collaborating with them on where their strengths are going to be versus yours. I’ve seen, this has happened at a couple organizations I’ve been in, I’ve seen revenue operations focus a little bit more on the reporting aspects of things, whether that’s Salesforce Tableau or whatever equivalent tool we want to talk about, being able to understand the stats a little bit more, the correlations between the metrics and maybe what’s going on within the market or within the industry to bring conclusions to why those metrics are the way they are. But I think in tandem, using those or leveraging them with enablement to say, how could we help sellers get better at their role or improve this stat over time? That’s where enablement could come in and say, well, you know, there’s a number of things we could do, whether it’s a session, a self-guided learning, some type of assignment or a combination of all three of those things to get sellers to be able to get up to speed as quickly as possible, make that change with the support of revenue operations. So, I think it’s just playing to each role strengths. But with that being said, I’ve seen revenue operations professionals act as enablers in some organizations and vice versa. I’ve been in an enablement role where I’m the one pulling all those stats if they don’t have a revenue person. I’m the one who’s kind of making those connections and then carrying out whatever enablement activities there need to be. But at least in the larger orgs where things are a little bit more built out, that tends to be what I’ve seen and heard. [13:01]

Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. OK. Now, you mentioned earlier that it’s important to earn stakeholder buy-in early and continuously. Why is it important?

Christian Palmer: If you don’t have it, everything you say is not going to be listened to. I think that that’s probably the biggest aspect of this whole thing. And it is imperative that when you come into an organization, you’re able to build up those relationships immediately. It takes a long time, you know? And I think a lot of stakeholders may or may not agree or align on the sentiment of needing enablement or what its value is. So, for those folks, sometimes it’s more of like, I need to prove it. But with stakeholders themselves, I think if you have their buy-in and it’s done early enough, they’ll be able to echo your sentiments. They’ll be able to reinforce things that you’re showing their team and be able to do all those things when you’re not around. And excuse me, I think that’s when it tends to be the most valuable because everybody is going to appear more aligned and you’ll feel more comfortable knowing that, hey, I can leave this in the manager’s hands. Additionally, there could be some other things that they would then help with on the side, not to say I would want every stakeholder to do this, but maybe they can help look over material that I create. Maybe they participate in some of the things that I’m doing with the sellers. That makes it a lot more valuable to a seller and to me, because then the weight of the world’s not on my shoulders. A seller is going to hear something from the horse’s mouth, their manager. Let’s say that’s a stakeholder and that ends up being a lot more successful. [14:45]

Nancy Calabrese: Huh, but how do you establish credibility with the reps, the sales reps? How do you get their buy-in?

Christian Palmer: This can be done a number of ways. I think the easiest way or standard way you’re going to see amongst most enablers, especially ones that have sales experience, is leveraging that you’ve been there before. Of course, this gets harder. The longer it is that you’re not in a sales role, the harder it’s going to be to align. However, I do think the kind of main foundational parts of selling don’t really change. So, like those aspects are what you can really align on with a rep. Whether it’s somebody’s going on a performance improvement plan, I’ve been on performance improvement plans a couple times in my career. One time didn’t work out too great, the other time it did work out for me. And being able to use that as leverage and to explain to a seller like, hey, look, this isn’t the end, it’s just the beginning, shows vulnerability on my part and shows them that I can relate to what this is and the vulnerability aspect I bring up because that’s how you build relationships with anybody. So, whether or not they’re actual sellers doesn’t matter as much to me, but the fact that they are, and I go in and kind of let them know maybe areas that I’m weak in upfront, maybe areas that I know I’m strong in or where I think I can help them and start adding value to them without them even asking for it. So, an example of this would be maybe you come into an organization, you don’t have the industry knowledge. This is very much how it was at Riskified for me. I didn’t know anything about chargebacks or the fraud or policy abuse space, any of that. But what I did know was all the different selling skills I’ve accumulated and enabled on over the years. So, I was able to come in and kind of create sessions and content and additional resources around some of these skills that were agnostic to what Riskified is and what industry it’s in. [16:48]

Nancy Calabrese: Right.

Christian Palmer: So that helped me build up that rapport very quickly. Also reveal to them what my vulnerabilities are. But a lot of it is like coming in, sending a video, introducing myself to everybody in the main general channel on Slack or something, just being very open and available. And sticking my neck out for them when it comes to supporting them is so important to help them start getting by in with me or I get by with them. [17:17]

Nancy Calabrese: Oh, you know, what’s the difference when you work with a one-man team versus a global department? Is there any difference in enablement?

Christian Palmer: I’d say so. I think on the one hand of it, when you’re on a solo enablement team, the weight of the world is on your shoulders most of the time, you’re going to be in a position where not only are you ideally identifying where there are gaps and how you could enable upon them, but every Tom, Rich and Harry is going to be reaching out to you about something they need, whether that’s people that are not big on enablement or people that are enablement happy and want to training for everything. Generally, when you’re a one-man person, it’s going to be a little bit, I don’t want to generalize, but at least what I’ve seen is like, you’ll be a little bit more responsible for quantity of production rather than the quality because of how fast things are generally moving. If you’re a solo enabler, usually you’re in a little bit more of a lean organization. They’re going to be scrappy. They’re going to want things done yesterday, although I would say bigger orcs still do that too. [18:28] But with all that.

Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, I don’t think you get away with that in any organization.

Christian Palmer: Yeah, yeah. No, that’s a great point. And I think like if you’re if you’re solo, I think it just will come down to, you know, being able to spread yourself across a bunch of different areas simultaneously, pivot and adapt when necessary. Know that maybe some of the projects that are a priority today may be dropped as priorities tomorrow. On the other side of it, if you’re in a larger organization or like a global team. A lot of the times those teams are separated by function, by skill, by region. And with that means that people are going to have a little bit narrower swim lane. Maybe there’s people that are just focused on content. Some people that are just focused on bringing tools onto the team and integrating them. Like all those different thing’s kind of need to come together. Generally, there’s going to be a little bit more, I don’t know if red tape is the phrase, but You know, like the kind of bureaucratic tendencies of larger orgs where, you know, there’s a resource, meaning a person for everything and things will need approvals. You’ll need to work more cross-functionally. And in different ways than you would, if you were a solo person, you’d still would work cross-functionally as a solo. But I think in this regard, you’re going to be a little bit more like, okay, we’re going to do one piece of this enablement activity that I’m going to pass it on to a product marketing team or a data team or something along those lines. Whereas the solo thing, I would include them, but I generally would be doing everything from start to finish. So, I think there are pros and cons to both, but they are different. [20:07]

Nancy Calabrese: Well, can you believe it? We’re up with time. We could go on forever. No, not at all. I mean, you have a lot to share with us. So how can my people find you?

Christian Palmer: Did I speak too much? Did I say too many things? Definitely look me up on LinkedIn, Christian Palmer. I have a comma after my last name, MSED. And definitely find me on LinkedIn. Feel free to view the other podcasts and content that I’ve created in my featured section. And don’t be bashful. Hit me up with a message. If you need any help regarding enablement sales, maybe on the job search, I am available. And yeah, here to help. [20:47]

Nancy Calabrese: Wow, hey folks, let’s take advantage of Christian’s generous offer. You were wonderful. And you could tell listening to you, you’re very passionate about what you do. And so, I’m going to end the show today and encourage everybody again, take advantage of Christian’s offer. Christian, you’re terrific. Thank you so much for your time and make it an awesome sales day, everyone. [21:14]

Jeff Savlov: Selling Solutions, Building Relationships

by | Apr 16, 2024 | Podcast

About Jeff Savlov: Jeff Savlov is the Founder of Blum & Savlov, LLP, and consults with business families, legacy wealth families, and the advisors who serve them. He brings more than 30 years of unique experience in sales and marketing, business ownership, entrepreneurial endeavors, family dynamics/psychological training, and a common-sense style to his consulting work with families. By integrating his diverse business background, extensive academic work, and family dynamics/psychological training with his experience working in his family’s commercial printing business, Jeff helps enterprising families balance family and business/wealth so both will thrive for generations. Jeff has consulted on relationship and team dynamics with Fortune 500 companies such as Bristol-Myers Squibb, Johnson & Johnson, and Schering Plough. He also devotes a portion of his time to performance enhancement with corporate executives and elite high school athletes. Check out the latest episode of our Conversational Selling podcast to learn more about Jeff.

In this episode, Nancy and Jeff discuss the following:

  • The role of the Sandler methodology in understanding client needs and building relationships
  • Jeff’s background and journey into family consulting
  • The challenges faced by wealthy families and the specialized assistance they require
  • Strategies for acquiring clients: speaking engagements and referrals
  • Jeff’s unique approach to using Metallica’s story in his workshops

Key Takeaways: 

  • It’s easy to idealize being wealthy, but there are many challenges.
  • One of my areas is parenting in the context of family wealth and how to start when kids are young to raise them so that those values will remain there when they learn about money.
  • DISC is excellent for people who don’t have the training to help them think about the general categories that people fall into.

“I got trained as a family therapist. After grad school, I did another seven years of training in a psychoanalytic institute for seven years. Like I said, I got fully certified and started a private practice doing talk therapy 30 years ago. And just by coincidence, some of my early therapy clients also had significant wealth or family businesses. I was working with them as a therapist, and I could see that there was a need that was different than therapy, but that lawyers, accountants, and wealth managers didn’t have the training and background to go into the family dynamic side. So, I saw an opportunity to do something that was not therapy but between what a therapist and business consultants do. I started to work slowly and consult with families. Again, I’m not working on finance taxes or operations. I’m helping families develop strong family teams and work together two or three generations at a time. Now that people are living longer, you can easily have, you know, 80-year-olds, 50-year-olds, and 20-year-olds working together. I help them work together, develop leadership, communicate well, and make transitions from one generation to the next, helping the senior generation step back, give the next generation opportunity, and developing the next generation to step up and take over.” – JEFF

“ In terms of meeting people and those early stages when I’m trying to decide if I want to work with them and they’re trying to decide if they want to work with me, Sandler has been incredibly valuable. And what I just said is really at the heart of it. Sandler talks about a level playing field. So, it’s not like, “Hey, I’m the poor guy with the poor schmuck with something to sell. I hope you’ll buy it.” It’s more like I have something of value; I’m looking for people who need it, have pain around it that I can solve, and have respect for what I bring. And they’re looking for someone to help them with their pain, and it’s mutual. And Sandler, that part of the Sandler attitude is that it’s a level playing field but a two-way street. I’m not just looking for anyone who’ll hire me. And that’s a big piece of it. I feel like the rapport part of the equation is something I’ve always been good at just naturally, and certainly years of being a therapist, and that’s a big part of the Sandler piece.” – JEFF

“I find sales is fun. Even though I am primarily sort of a consultant and I’m doing, you know, professional consulting services, I must find— I’m a solo guy. I must find my, you know, my clients and serve them. And that is sales. And I think that sales— really, life is sales, not in a manipulative way, but life is about understanding people, seeing if there’s a common need or desire, and then going for it. And so, I find it a lot of fun. Sometimes, I land a big client, and then I’m disappointed. I must do the work. Not that I don’t enjoy the work, but I find sales— I love the hunt. And I find it enjoyable. I don’t know, people think it’s crazy that aren’t into it.” – JEFF

Connect with Jeff Savlov:

Try Our Proven, 3-Step System, Guaranteeing Accountability and Transparency that Drives RESULTS by clicking on this link: https://oneofakindsales.com/call-center-in-a-box/

Connect with Nancy Calabrese: 

Voiceover: You’re listening to The Conversational Selling Podcast with Nancy Calabrese.

Nancy Calabrese: Hi, it’s Nancy Calabrese, and it’s time again for Conversational selling – the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today and it always starts with the human conversation. Today we’re speaking with my colleague Jeff Savlov, family business and wealth consultant, speaker, coach, and facilitator. He brings more than 25 years of experience to his work with families and family enterprises through his consulting work with Blum and Savlov. Jeff helps multi-generational family enterprises manage complex decisions related to their shared assets. He guides families as they move along the continuum from operating businesses to owning and managing multiple assets where a family’s emotional and financial lives are tied together in pursuit of the common future. Welcome to the show, Jeff. I’m so happy to have you.

Jeff Savlov: Yeah, thanks, Nancy. It’s great to be here. [1:17]

Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, so Jeff and I go back many years and I’ve been trying to get him on the show for quite some time. We finally made it. Talk about how you got involved in this business. What’s your background?

Jeff Savlov: Yeah, so it was sort of by accident. Its kind of just fell together. I grew up in my family’s family business. I’ll give you the quick and dirty. Grew up in my family’s family business, middle school, I would go to the New York City on weekends. And then we opened a second location in New Jersey. High school, I got involved. Even during college, I stayed involved. As the business grew, my dad, who was really a blue-collar technical guy who started his own business, wasn’t really experienced as a manager or a leader got super stressed out, took out his stress on me, which is an unusual in family business. My mom found a family therapist that worked with parents and kids in family businesses. My dad agreed to go, the whole family went, my sisters too, they weren’t involved in the business. Had a really, transformative experience for the business, but also as father and son and for our family. I decided, you know what, I don’t love commercial printing and I love you dad and working together isn’t working for us, so I’m going to go my own way. I went into sales and marketing and that was my first sales job, which was interesting and had a lot of good experience while I was still actually in college. So had that experience, like I said, left the family business. But I was so moved by what that family therapist had done for us that I went back to grad school. I studied family and group dynamics. I got trained as a family therapist. After grad school, I did another seven years training in a psychoanalytic institute for seven years, like I said, got fully certified started a private practice doing talk therapy 30 years ago. And just by coincidence, some of my early therapy clients also had significant wealth or family businesses. And I was working with them as a therapist and I could see that there was needed that was different than therapy, but that lawyers and accounts and wealth managers didn’t have the training and background to go into the family dynamic side. And so, I saw there was an opportunity to do something that was not therapy but was sort of in between what a therapist does and what business consultants do. And I started to slowly work and consult with families. Again, I’m not working on finance or taxes or operations. I’m helping families develop strong family teams and to work together two, three generations at a time. Now that people are living longer, you can easily have you know, 80-year-olds, 50 year olds, and 20 year olds, all working together. I help them work together, develop leadership, communicate well, and make transitions from one generation to the next, helping the senior generation step back, give the next generation opportunity and developing the next generation to step up and take over. [4:08]

Nancy Calabrese: Wow. So, what’s talk therapy?

Jeff Savlov: Psychotherapy, talk therapy, it’s what you think of as therapy or counseling. I use talk therapy for sure, but some people just use therapy, but it’s what you think of when you think about going to someone and talking about your problems. [4:24]

 

Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, so why do rich people need special help?

Jeff Savlov: You know, being rich ain’t all it’s cracked up to be. You know, it’s easy to idealize being wealthy, but there’s a lot of challenges. How do you raise kids? Especially 70 something, 75% give or take of millionaires are self-created in the U.S. right now. So, these are people that develop their own businesses, companies, whatever it was that they did to be entrepreneurial, develop their own wealth, and often they come from working class or blue-collar backgrounds. And so, they had built into their own childhoods, the need to work hard and create what they wanted to create. Now they have children who are growing up and it’s already there, the nice house and the cars and the vacations. So, there’s a lot of challenges with creating wealth and then how do you raise kids who can deal with that and won’t be spoiled and will have their own work ethic. It’s trickier than you might think. I mean, if you had a billion with a B, just say you had a billion dollars, how would you handle that with your kids? Would you tell them? When do you tell them? How do you raise them so that they’ll be responsible, and they won’t just sort of blow it all in their wild teenage and early adult years? So, there’s a lot of challenges there. And that’s really my expertise. One of my areas is parenting in the context of family wealth and how to start when kids are young to raise them in a way that they will be motivated and responsible, so that when they learn about the money, those values will still be there. [5:57]

Nancy Calabrese: Well, so how do you find your clients and sell them?

Jeff Savlov: So, I do a lot of speaking, paid speaking around the country, which is fun to do. I write a blog that’s popular. I’ve over the last 30 years met a lot of professionals whose clients, you know, trust and estate attorneys, accountants. Wealth managers who have wealthy clients and they’ve all seen the issues families face, but they never really knew what to do with it because they didn’t have my kind of a background. So, they’re really thrilled often to know somebody like me and make introductions, but it is hard because they’re also nervous. They’re not familiar with my world. They’re nervous. They’re going to insult their clients by saying, hey, here’s a guy that can help you parent better or help you work better as a family. They’re afraid they’re going to insult the client. So I’d have to do a lot of education with these people, these professionals who refer their clients, how to bring this up, how to keep it positive, how to say that this is normal stuff every family goes through, but now there are professionals like Jeff who have a different kind of expertise and I’d like you to meet him and not make it in terms of something’s wrong with your family, but more there’s an opportunity here and there is some danger coming your way and there’s an opportunity to manage it and get ahead of it. [7:10]

Nancy Calabrese: Sure. So, you and I both study Sandler methodology, and I know that we’ve been colleagues for many years now. How does Sandler help you in working with your clients?

Jeff Savlov: So, in terms of meeting people and those early stages when I’m trying to decide if I want to work with them and they’re trying to decide if they want to work with me, Sandler has been incredibly valuable. And what I just said is really at the heart of it, Sandler talks about a level playing field. So, it’s not like, hey, I’m the poor guy with the poor schmuck with something to sell, I hope you’ll buy it. It’s more like I have something of value, I’m looking for people who need it have pain around it that I can solve and have respect for what I bring. And they’re looking for someone who can help them with their pain and it’s mutual. And Sandler, that part of the Sandler attitude of it’s a level playing field, it’s a two-way street. I’m not just looking for anyone who’ll hire me. What’s that? Eagle stature. [8:13]

Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, equal stature, right? Equal stature. I think that’s so important.

Jeff Savlov: And that’s a big piece of it. I feel like the rapport part of the equation is something I’ve always been good at just naturally and certainly years of being a therapist and that’s a big part of the Sandler piece. And the other thing I would add is once you’ve gotten through sort of the initial rapport and there’s a back and forth around, I feel like you’re a client that I could help and I would want to work with and you’d be fun to work with and they feel like, Jeff, you’re a good guy, you have something to offer, we’d like to work with you. Once all that is solidified upfront, to really have an open, honest conversation about budget. [8:47]

Nancy Calabrese: Right.

Jeff Savlov: And what kind of fees were they expecting to pay? What kind of fees do I charge? Is there a match? Is it too far apart that it just doesn’t fit? And just talk it all out. I think in the old days before Sandler, I do the bonding and rapport and have a conversation, and then I just email them a proposal and keep my fingers crossed. And sometimes they were shocked by the number, but there was no conversation. It was like, it was shocking. And that’s one of the best things, most valuable things I’ve got from Sandler’s while I’m still in the room meeting them and talking with them is to say, Hey, let’s talk about budget, let’s talk about the amount of money you thought this would cost. Let me tell you about my fees. Let’s see if there’s a fit for what we’re both looking for and having that conversation and really getting that kind of cleared up directly face to face before sending a proposal. So now the proposal is a rubber stamp. They’ve already heard the number and agreed to it, or we decided to go separate ways. It seems crazy that I used to just send a proposal and hope for the best compared to this. This is one of the most powerful things I’ve gotten from Sandler. [9:48]

Nancy Calabrese: Right. Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. And you know, my early days in sales, I would do the same thing. But now understanding, I think what I gain most from Sandler is the opportunity to really determine are we going to be a good fit? Am I going to be a solution for this customer? Are they going to be a good fit for my people and my organization? So, what’s your unique idea that’s different and sets you apart?

Jeff Savlov: So, I like to say, surprise them upfront, rather than coming in with the hard sell or going right to business, I try to find something out from the prospect. I’ll look at LinkedIn, social media, something where we might have something in common. So rather than sitting down and getting right into the business thing, I might sit down and say, hey, I saw that you like to volunteer at a soup kitchen in Texas where you live. I’ve been volunteering for 15 years at a soup kitchen in Trenton, New Jersey for you and it’s really not only is it disarming but honestly I’m interested in the same thing as them and I want to have a conversation it’s really genuine and so I think that kind of let’s just talk about something that neither one of us was expecting just to sort of start getting some common ground it’s a really powerful thing and because it’s genuine it’s not manipulative and I’m interested it I think it comes off well. [11:10]

Nancy Calabrese: So, we just came out of a class all about DISC, communication styles, right? And somebody brought up in our meeting, how do you do it when you’re having a conversation? How do you figure out their communication style? How do you go about it? Like what are some of the things you listen for or look for?

Jeff Savlov: Yeah. So, you and I happened to be in the same small group and we were discussing that. And when I was starting to say, and we got our, we timed out of our little breakout, just as I was finishing up, because I’ve had such deep and, and such long experience in, you know, as a family therapist, as a psychoanalyst working deeply with people. This is aside from the consulting work, this is sort of the, the psychotherapy work that I do for so long, which feeds into the consulting work. [12:00]

Nancy Calabrese: Yeah.

Jeff Savlov: Um, for me, DISC kind of throws me a little bit because it sort of puts me in my head when I have sort of an instinct for this based on 30 years of meeting all kinds of people and helping get deeply into their problems. So, I feel like for me, there’s an intuitive process of, um, of, so I might not use the disc terms of, you know, Eagle or dove or parrot or what, owl. Um, but for me, it’s clear to me that someone is, is sort of aggressive. Um, they clearly want to keep things moving. They might curse. If somebody curses in the first few minutes or first meeting, I might throw in a curse in a playful way and I think they appreciate that. I’ll keep things moving because I see that there’s someone that wants to keep things moving. If there’s someone that’s really talking a lot and telling stories, I can see that they’re the person that wants them back and forth and getting to know each other. For me, it happens intuitively based on all that training. I think DISC is great for people that don’t have that training to help you think, the general categories that people fall into. Here’s what they might be looking for. Here’s how you might want to handle it. Would you add anything to that or what would you say? [13:06]

Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. I mean, it’s powerful when you think about it. And I think I said this in the group. It makes selling fun to me, you know, trying to understand, um, you know, Jeff’s communication style as I’m speaking with him, because our goal in sales is to communicate like them, right? Not like yourself. And I, from that point of view, uh, look, my opening pitch is the same, pretty much to everyone, but then you get into really understanding the dynamics of, you know, how they like to learn, how they like to be spoken to. And I find it fascinating myself.

Jeff Savlov: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really interesting, right?

Nancy Calabrese: Okay, so tell me something true that almost nobody agrees with you on.

Jeff Savlov: So, I find sales is fun. Even though I am primarily sort of a consultant and I’m doing, you know, professional consulting services, um, I must find, I’m a solo guy. I must find my, you know, my own clients and serve them. And that is sales. And I think that sales really life is sales, not in a manipulative way, but life is about understanding people, seeing if there’s a common need or desire and then sort of going for it. And so, I find it a lot of fun. Sometimes I land a big client and then I’m disappointed. I must do the work. Not that I don’t enjoy the work, but I find sales just, I love the hunt. And I find it enjoyable. I don’t know, people think it’s crazy that aren’t into it. [14:46]

Nancy Calabrese: Great. It’s so funny, Noelle in our class for the longest time swore that she wasn’t in sales, but everybody is in sales, right? Everybody is in sales, whether they admit it or not. You want to go to a movie, and you want to persuade your partner or your family member to, or a friend, you want to see your movie, not their movie. So, I don’t know, I find sales fascinating, you know.

Jeff Savlov: Yeah, I’m with you there.

Nancy Calabrese: Okay, so you come from your family business, you worked in sales and marketing, trained therapist and psychoanalyst. Is there anything else in store for you?

Jeff Savlov: Um, you know, I’ve said before, like when I became a therapist 30 years ago, I thought this was my final stop. And then I kind of fell into this. So, who knows, but I really like where I’m at now. It allows me to do a lot of things I like. I enjoy speaking and I’ve been getting sort of better and better fees for speaking. And I love speaking just on its own. So, to get paid to do it is fun. So, I think I’ll keep doing that. I like the families that I work with. Some of my families have businesses. Some of them don’t even have a business and they have just generational wealth without a business, but really big inherited wealth and they have a lot of the same issues around leadership and developing kids. So, there’s a lot of different things I can do, teaching parents, coaching parents with really young kids on how to raise them. I feel like I have so many different things that I can do that I’m not bored with it. So, who knows what the future brings. [16:22]

Nancy Calabrese: Hey, yeah, and you don’t you play a song when you travel a rock song to your people? When you go to conferences?

Jeff Savlov: I think you’re thinking of one of the workshops that I do, and I’ve done this to rooms of 200, 250 lawyers, accounts, wealth managers, as well as to families themselves. It’s called Drugs, Sex, Rock and Roll, Family Business, and Family Wealth Lessons from Metallica. And it’s, yeah, I play a song when I start it, but it’s the whole workshop is based on one-to-three-minute clips from a documentary about the band.

Nancy Calabrese: Right. Metallica, right?

Jeff Savlov: Metallica, and while they’re not blood relatives in that sense of family, when I watched the documentary for fun many years ago, because I liked the band and I was interested in the documentary, when I watched it, I was shocked by how much they were very much a family and they’ve stuck together through thick and thin. And so, I use these clips from the documentary to start discussions and to teach professionals and families, and it’s really entertaining and it’s like the most well-received talk that I do. [17:29]

Nancy Calabrese: Just in general, how long does it take a family to like for the light bulb to go off, you know, with your work?

Jeff Savlov: It’s a good question. Some families just know that they’re in a lot of pain and there’s a lot of fighting and they’re looking for someone who can help other families. The light bulbs gone off and they’ve done a lot of the right things. But if you think about it, just a numbers game, you have two parents, maybe they have three kids, but they all grow up in the same family together. The kids get involved. They watch the parents build it. They’ve seen a go from nothing to something significant. That’s one transition. But then when the third generation comes. So, the three kids start to marry people who didn’t grow up in the family. So now you have outsiders coming in. Each of those kids has their own kids. That cousin generation is where it gets tricky. The people who married in might have very different ideas about how the kids should fit into the business and what a sense of fairness is. And the kids have different values based on the different families they’re growing up in. So that’s where it gets really, tricky. What was the original question? I forgot. [18:34]

Nancy Calabrese: Just how long it takes a family, you know, I guess there’s no special time, right? It varies from family to family.

Jeff Savlov: So, some people, you know, it takes a while. And for some people, there’s been a kind of a light bulb and they know that they can find someone like me to help them, especially when they hear about it. Often, they’re they don’t know that there’s someone with my experience and they’ll be talking or telling their fears to their accountant or their attorney or their wealth manager. And if that person knows me says, hey, you know, there is a world of, of help there that you might not know about. So, some people, the light bulbs already partially got off and they’re looking for help and other people they really are doing harmful things that are going to hurt their family and their business and they take some work to get them to kind of look at things a different way. [19:23]

Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, I can’t believe we’re up with time, Jeff, and I could talk to you forever. What is the one takeaway you want to leave the audience with?

Jeff Savlov: Wow. It’s fun. For me, it’s relationships are everything in my personal life and selling. It’s really, I just, I love meeting people, connecting with people like you and I connected. And now we’re here on this podcast. I just think relationships are everything. So, if you’re selling something, you know, establishing a relationship with your prospects and just sort of in life. We just got back from a vacation in Puerto Rico and my wife just shakes her head. We get there and I’m in the pool and I’m talking to people from all over the world on vacation. She’s just sitting there reading a book and that’s what she likes to do. But I just like the relationship thing. And I developed friends in my week in Puerto Rico. [20:12]

Nancy Calabrese: Ha ha ha! Are you an I?

Jeff Savlov: I am an I, I and S. I’ve tested as I and S, I and a little D, but generally some form of I is always in there. Yeah.

Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, yeah, yeah. How can my rich people find you?

Jeff Savlov: Um, so it’s Jeff Savlov, S-A-V-L-O-V. My website is Blum and Savlov. So, it’s B-L- But if you search Jeff Savlov Family Business, any of those will get you to me.

Nancy Calabrese: All right. Hey folks, he’s the go-to guy. So, all of you sitting on a lot of wealth, you have kids, and you want to make sure that the wealth is, I guess, appreciated, and handled properly. Give Jeff a call, reach out to him. And Jeff, thanks so much for being on the show. We finally did it. And until we speak again, folks, we’ll see you next time. [21:15]

Jeff Savlov: Yeah, thanks, Nancy.