About Joe Pallo: Joe Pallo is the Founder of Sell Nothing, a consulting company where he works with C.E.O.s, E.V.P. s, top salespeople, and sales leaders who want to grow their business by establishing emotional relationships with their clients and team members. Drawing from 35+ years of commission sales and 30,000+ sales calls, Joe Pallo is a top sales producer who first earned his hard knocks and big rewards with door-to-door selling. He’s developed proven systems and processes through which hundreds of top producers double or triple their business without investing additional time. Clients include non-profit organizations, defense contractors, financial advisors, the top mortgage broker in the United States, and an Olympic champion and flag bearer. As a coach, he focuses on understanding and implementing basic sales principles. He adds a layer of accountability while training and modeling relationship-building skills. Joe is also a creator of the E.A.R.N.I.N.G Sales System and a bestselling author of How To Sell Nothing. Check out the latest episode of our Conversational Selling podcast to learn more about Joe.
In this episode, Nancy and Joe discuss the following:
- Why the word “selling” is such a scary word for so many people
- Sell Nothing: The story under the company name
- Peculiarities of the E.A.R.N.I.N.G Sales System
- Four uncommon ways to ask for quality referrals without being a jerk
- The importance of script in sales
Key Takeaways:
- We’ve all been on the receiving end of being part of a bad sales presentation or a bad sales call.
- Referrals are given to confident people.
- Get a silver bullet on your existing referrals, freshen them up, and then leave a message in a voicemail.
- E.A.R.N.I.N.G Sales System is the essence of selling Nothing.
- Listening and then repeating back what they said – that’s the talking you should do: ask questions and repeat back.
“ It seems like we all know there are two sales that need to happen to get to the next step, or two buckets that need to be filled: the logical sale or the logical bucket, and the emotional sale or the emotional bucket. Both are important, but we all know the emotional bucket needs to happen first; that makes people decide. The logical bucket confirms the sale, and the emotional bucket makes it happen. “Sell Nothing,” the book, was written with the concept that we want our clients, my clients, to tell me what they want and why they want it. That’s the emotional sale. My role as the salesperson is to fill that logical bucket with words because I know all the logic and numbers, and I have a marketing department behind me. I’m good at making that logical sale. The emotional bucket is filled up with their words. Emotions are weird things—they’re fickle and change. They don’t make sense. We have to get them talking about what they want and why they want it. The art of selling Nothing is selling what people want and why they want it” – J.O.E.
“But that’s the value of the silver bullet. Yeah, it gets them calling back in, and it will work. It’s incredibly effective, but you must take your time and get them immediately. Right? I’ll also say something else that may help your listeners. This works well when you get a referral, but it also works well with all the referrals you’ve gotten for the past three or six months. What’s to stop you from returning to the referral and saying, “Hey, a while back, you referred me to so and so. I tried catching them, but what type of decision-maker is he? A numbers guy, is he a talker, a driver?” Right? Get a silver bullet on your existing referrals, freshen them up, yeah, and then you leave it on a message on a voicemail.” – J.O.E.
“Um, I would say it’s using scripts when you’re selling, having a talk, having scripts. Yeah, if I’m speaking in a group and I’m going to talk about scripts, I’ll always say, “Hey, just curious if there are any idiots. Can you raise your hand?” And a couple of people do because they’re idiots. But I kind of joke that the reason I ask is that I’m going to talk about using scripts, and many times, I hear people saying, “I can’t use a script because I’ll sound robotic.” And here’s my thinking on that, which people may disagree with. But we work hard to get the name; they get the phone number. Then, if we get the phone number, we must get through to the secretary. That’s a lot of work. Or we try to get the cell number; we don’t have to get him on the phone. That’s a lot of work to talk to a prospect. Right? Well, let themselves be passive and sound robotic on a live call. Right? And if that’s the case, that person may be in the wrong job. Now, if you think about it, and here’s the thing, you didn’t sound robotic when I was doing my role-play and calling Aaron. You heard me insert a chuckle. That’s intentional because that makes me focused and present on the call. You cannot be passive and insert a chuckle, you know? I’ll repeat, it says when I talk to him, I said, “Aaron, it’s Joe Pallo. I don’t want you racking your brain trying to figure out who I am. We haven’t met yet, right?” I’m chuckling right there; he hears it. Yeah, because if you say the same thing consistently, you’ll get consistent results.” – J.O.E.
Connect with Joe Pallo:
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joepallo-sellnothingllc/
- Influence People: Sell Nothing
- The E.A.R.N.I.N.G Sales System: Joe’s free gift link
Try Our Proven, 3-Step System, Guaranteeing Accountability and Transparency that Drives RESULTS by clicking on this link: https://oneofakindsales.com/call-center-in-a-box/
Connect with Nancy Calabrese:
- Twitter:https://twitter.com/oneofakindsales
- Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/One-Of-A-Kind-Sales-304978633264832/
- Website:https://oneofakindsales.com
- Phone: 908-879-2911
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ncalabrese/
- Email: leads@oneofakindsales.com
Voiceover: You’re listening to The Conversational Selling Podcast with Nancy Calabrese.
Nancy Calabrese: Hi, it’s Nancy Calabrese, and it’s time again for Conversational selling – the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today. And it always starts with the human conversation! Today we’re speaking with Joe Pallo, Founder of Sell Nothing, a company where he trains CEOs, EVPs, and top sales professionals to build emotional relationships with clients and team members. Joe’s unique approach to sales called the Emotional Sale, focuses on leveraging emotions for sales success. Drawing from his 30,000+ personal sales calls and diverse clientele, Joe has helped hundreds of individuals and teams double their productivity. Besides sales consulting and coaching, his expertise extends to keynote speaking, sales presentations, and a Creator of the E.A.R.N.I.N.G Sales System™. And I believe a relatively newer program called Silver Bullet. Welcome to the show Joe! This is going to be a fun discussion! [1:20]
Joe Pallo: Hey Nancy, looking forward to it, and thank you for having me!
Nancy Calabrese: Oh, I’m so excited! So, you know, why is the word “selling” such a scary word for so many people?
Joe Pallo: I think it’s probably because we’ve all been on the receiving end of being part of a bad sales presentation or a bad sales call. I think we’ve all seen it, and it just says that ickiness that’s out there in sales. But I don’t believe it’s needed itself; I believe that’s the right way to sell.
Nancy Calabrese: No, I mean, I just can’t get enough of selling. So, the next question I had is, how do you keep track of 30,000 personal sales calls?
Joe Pallo: Well, the majority of those, I spent six summers—that’s how I paid my way through college—selling books door-to-door. OK, so door-to-door sales, you’re going to get that number up pretty high; you’re going to learn how to sell, or you’re going to starve one way or the other. [2:17]
Nancy Calabrese: Your company name is very clever, Sell Nothing. What prompted you to name it that?
Joe Pallo: Well, I think it’s with the understanding of all my experience in sales. It seems like we all know there are two sales that need to happen to get to the next step, or two buckets that need to be filled: the logical sale or the logical bucket, and the emotional sale or the emotional bucket. Both are important, but we all know the emotional bucket needs to happen first; that makes people decide. The logical bucket confirms the sale, and the emotional bucket makes it happen. “Sell Nothing,” the book, was written with the concept that we want our clients, my clients, to tell me what they want and why they want it. That’s the emotional sale. My role as the salesperson is to fill up that logical bucket with words because I know all the logic and numbers, and I have a marketing department behind me. I’m really good at making that logical sale. The emotional bucket is filled up with their words. Emotions are weird things—they’re fickle and change, they don’t make sense. We have to get them talking, not only about what they want but why they want it. The art of selling nothing is selling what people want and why they want it. [3:37]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, it really is all about them. So, first, you have to kind of uncover what it is they need and what issues they’re having, determining if we can solve their problems. Tell us a little bit about the E.A.R.N.I.N.G system that you created.
Joe Pallo: Having a sales plan is like having a battle plan. It looks really good. But when the battle starts or the sales meeting starts, take the plan and check it out the window; it doesn’t work. Okay, so “E.A.R.N.I.N.G” is an acronym, and each letter stands for part. Ideally, we want to go through it in the cycle, but it doesn’t have to be; it just keeps us on track. Okay, it’s just getting them. The “E” stands for, I just need to evaluate your current reality. I need to ask questions, my data quality. If I’m going to make an apples-to-apples comparison, I need to ask enough questions and what type of apples they have. I’ll ask apples, oranges; I still need to start out with that point. So, that’s the “E.” “A” stands for what are the advantages, what do they like about their current vendor. And I get a lot of times; I get people pushing back, saying, “Joe, I don’t want to ask that question. I’m talking them into staying with who they want to be with.” Right? I like asking that question because one, I get different results because I do things differently; that differentiates me. Two, me asking what they like about their current vendor screams confidence. Sales are given to confident people. But the biggest reason, they’re literally telling me their hot buttons. When I say, “What do you like about your current vendor?” They say, “I like his communication,” or “I like this.” Back in my mind, I’m thinking, “I’ve got to close on that in another five minutes, or five weeks, or five months, and I’m not going to know unless they tell me.” So, that’s the “A.” The “R” is revise—what do they want to change? That’s the major reason why they’re going to go forward. But I don’t lead off with that. Okay, the current reality, and then ask what they like about it. Then I must ask what they want to change. The “N” you can say no. Who else needs to be involved in the sales, right? Sometimes you can back out, sometimes you can’t. But I want to know who are the other decision-makers, right? That’s E.R.N.I. This is an important one. You need one step that you can apply tomorrow. I simply interpret back what you just said. Just say, “Hey, just for clarity, I’m going to take two minutes and just rattle off what they have. It does a lot of things because I start hearing things like what Paul—you said it better than I did. Uh, that’s why I’m on their side of the table. I have not even started selling because the biggest complaint with sales is no one listens to me. I’m just repeating back what they just said. The second “N” is nothing. What if nothing changes because I need that to give a sense of urgency. And I’ll generally ask, “Well, what else?” They’ll get a fluffy answer. So, I ask, “Well, what if nothing changes? Well, tell me more about that.” I’ll get them talking about that. And then the “G” is the gain, the pay value. I have not even started talking about my product or service yet. That’s the essence of selling nothing. We go through this process on every sales call. If it’s a longer selling second, we just repeat it. [6:38]
Nancy Calabrese: Right, well, I think you’re right. Repeating what you think you heard not only is it telling the prospect that you’re listening, but you may uncover some additional information when you do that. Yeah, very much so. Okay, let’s talk about four uncommon ways to ask for quality referrals without being a jerk.
Joe Pallo: Well, the first part is that we must be confident when we’re asking. I think most people are passive when they’re asking for referrals. They might say something like, “I kind of maybe like to have a referral if it’s not too much trouble. Oh, never mind. Here’s a business card.” Referrals are given to confident people. We need to have a confident ask. A better way of saying it is, when we’re on a sales call, I’ll ask my clients, “How do you want to be perceived?” Now, here, where it’s like, “I’m confident, upbeat, professional, educated, caring, trustworthy.” Okay, you got a good picture of who that person is. They say, “Yeah, that’s the person we’re asking for referrals.” What happens in sales is we go out and we give that confident, upbeat, professional presentation. But when it comes to referrals, we downshift. We’re passive when we ask for referrals. The same person who’s selling should be the same person asking for referrals. It’s a big piece. Also, when I’m asking for a referral, some people don’t want to come across the wrong way. If I were talking to you, let’s be hypothetical. You’ve been a client of mine for a couple of years. I would say, “Nancy, can I ask you a question?” You’d say, “Yeah.” I’d say, “I just want to get some feedback. We’ve been working together for a year or two. We’ve taken care of this problem, helped you out here, took care of that. What are some things you liked about working with me or my team?” I literally ask for feedback on what you liked about working with me or my team. I’ll say, “What else?” And then I just simply pivot, saying, “Nancy, who are two people who would appreciate those things?” [8:40]
Nancy Calabrese: I love it.
Joe Pallo: It’s my simplified referral ask, but they just told me why they should give me referrals and gave me a compliment. I’m in a great spot to ask for referrals. Yeah, yep. The other piece I’ll do, and I think this is really relevant nowadays when it comes to referrals. I think people are too busy, or a name and a number are not enough. Okay, I mean, we’ve all had referrals or maybe business cards have been referred to people who left a message, they’ve never called us back. So, I’ve kind of created a silver bullet, it’s what I call it a silver bullet, it’s to get through all that muck and noise out there and have that referral catch attention and call me back. The definition of a silver bullet is a bit of information that I know that an average Joe on the street doesn’t know. A bit of information that I know that an average Joe on the street doesn’t know, and I want to draft off the referee off of their relationship onto that first voicemail, onto that first phone call or that first meeting. [9:43]
Nancy Calabrese: How do you find that out?
Joe Pallo: Let’s just say if you’ve referred me to Bill Anderson, we’ll just use that name, and I’d say, “Alright, have some generic questions. How long have you known them? How big is his team? Where’s he at?” There’s some stuff that I think we do good, answer question, answer question. I think we do a pretty good job with that. Then I shift gears and say, “Just curious, what type of decision-maker is Bill? Is Bill a numbers guy, a talker, or is he a driver?” Okay, and I watch them in their face like, “I gotta think about him.” Yeah, I want you thinking about that relationship because that’s what I’m drafting off of, right? We see what type of decision-makers you see. Numbers guys, talkers, drivers. And then I’ll hit them with the one I love asking, “Just curious, what do you respect most about him? Love asking that question. I really have to think about it.” Yeah, you do. And what do you think about them? And I’ll usually, generally, I’ll even ask, “What else?” Yeah, so I’m just writing down all these silver bullets. And some examples of the identified silver bullets. Mark referred me to Aaron. Aaron used to work for him, had three people underneath them, now has 50. He’s a great guy, great family guy, progressive thinker. He’s not a meathead. Okay, that’s what the referee gave me about Aaron. Okay, when I called Aaron, I said, “Hey, Aaron, and I’m a script guy. He’s the same.” So, “Hey, Aaron, it’s Joe Pallo. We haven’t met. I don’t want you racking your brain trying to figure out who I am. Mark mentioned your name the other day. You said you’re not a meathead. 612-805-7576.” And I left. That’s it. [11:27]
Nancy Calabrese: That’s it? HAHA
Joe Pallo: 15 min later, Aaron called me back, being a good client, good friend, and he is a meathead. But that’s the value of the silver bullet. Yeah, and it gets them calling back in, and it will work. It’s incredibly effective, but you must take your time and get them right away. I’ll say something else too that may help your listeners. This works well when you get a referral, but it also works well with all the referrals you’ve gotten for the past three months or six months. What’s to stop you from going back to the referral and saying, “Hey, a while back, you referred me too so and so. I tried catching them, but just curious, what type of decision-maker is he? A numbers guy, is he a talker, a driver?” Right? Get a silver bullet on your existing referrals, freshen them up, and then you just leave it on a message on a voicemail. [12:24]
Nancy Calabrese: I love it!
Joe Pallo: One other thing that’s important: when I left that message for Aaron, I put his number in my phone because I want to have that call me back within 15 minutes. A lot of people want to jump in and give their presentation or their pitch right then. I don’t. Yeah, it’s hard to do, but I’ll just say, “Hey Aaron, thanks for calling back. I saw it was you. I wouldn’t take your call. I’m jumping on something else. Can we set up a time for next week?” I’m talking to the person. I could have had the time on my calendar to do that. We’re on the call, but I didn’t, and the reason I don’t is I don’t want to get halfway through my call, and he says, “Hey Joe, I got to jump on a plane,” and I lost all that momentum. Well, that’s one reason. The second reason it gently puts me in control of the call. It’s my show when I’m selling, and it’s your show when you’re selling, but this gently allows me to do that too, right? I’m not just a random thing. We put things out on the calendar, right out there about a week or so because I want them looking, saying, “What’s that? That’s Joe Pallo. That’s the guy who said I’m not been out there for a week,” and thinking about me before we even get to that call. But the biggest reason it allows me to be focused. In sales, I do not want to wing it. I’m going to clear my desk. I probably have a skill set where I could probably run the call, but I don’t want to do that. I want to make sure that I am in control of that space, and this allows me to budget for that. [14:01]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, but it also gives you time to do more research, correct? I totally am in your court. You know, I never, never take a call and jump right into a sales call. They always try to find time on the calendar and, you know, do my due diligence. But I love your recommendation about the silver bullets, that is awesome. Isn’t there a website that you have?
Joe Pallo: We can go to silverbulletreferrals.com. I’ll put in the chat silverbulletreferrals.com. Okay, download where it walks through that piece. Yeah, there are a couple of other steps on there, and I did, for the time, I didn’t go through all of them, but it’s just a process that is very duplicatable, and we get you in that system. I do not count a referral unless I have a silver bullet attached to it. [14:50]
Nancy Calabrese: What a great notion! You know, on your website, I think we’re not on the first page in bold letters. How do you exceed your most ambitious sales goals without working harder? How do you?
Joe Pallo: Well, you have to sell nothing. I say it’s, it’s until you’re comfortable selling nothing, you really can’t sell anything. And what that means is really what I sell. The whole concept is literally taking the time to have my clients tell me what they want, why they want it, and then I just sell that. Yeah, it’s a heck of a lot simpler. [15:29]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, tell me something you believe in that many people wouldn’t agree with you on.
Joe Pallo: I would say it’s using scripts when you’re selling, having a talk, having scripts. Yeah, if I’m speaking in a group and I’m going to talk about scripts, I’ll always kind of say, “Hey, just curious if there’s any idiots, can you raise your hand?” And a couple of people do because they’re idiots. But I kind of joke that the reason I ask that is I’m going to talk about using scripts, and a lot of times I hear people saying, “I can’t use a script because I’ll sound robotic.” And here’s my thinking on that, which people may disagree with. But we work hard to get the name, then they get the phone number. Then, if we get the phone number, we must get through the secretary. That’s a lot of work. Or we try to get the cell number, don’t have to get him on the phone. That’s a lot of work to talk to a prospect. Only idiots will let themselves be passive and sound robotic on a live call. And if that’s the case, that person may be in the wrong job. Now, if you think about it, and here’s the thing, you don’t sound robotic when I was kind of doing my role play when I was calling Aaron. You heard me insert a chuckle. [16:39]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah
Joe Pallo: That’s intentional because that makes me focused and present on the call. You cannot be passive and insert a chuckle, you know? I’ll repeat, it says when I talk to him, I said, “Aaron, it’s Joe Pallo. I don’t want you racking your brain trying to figure out who I am. We haven’t met yet, right?” I’m chuckling right there; he hears it. Yeah, because if you say the same thing consistently, you’re going to get consistent results. [17:06]
Nancy Calabrese: I am such a big fan of scripts, and you know, when I’ve gotten pushback from other people, you know, I remind them, look at the actors and actresses on the big screen. It all starts with the script, right? Because without a script, you would never know it. We work off scripts. But with time, it becomes internalized. You don’t have to use the exact wording; you want to make it your own. So, anybody that does not script risks losing the deal because they’re winging it.
Joe Pallo: I agree 100% because people say, “Joe, I’m not getting referrals.” I said, “Well, give me your pitch. If they say the same thing every time, I’m going to fix it. But if they say something different, heck, I don’t know what’s right, I don’t know what’s working right. But the other thing too, most people in sales are sitting there in the meetings, thinking, ‘What am I going to say next? What am I going to say next?’ That’s all they’re thinking. They’re not listening. If you know what you’re going to say, you can listen. What a huge benefit in sales, actually hearing what your client wants.” [18:11]
Nancy Calabrese: Totally! And you know, when you think about it, so you have your script in your head, and the real work comes when you shut up and you start listening to their issues, their pains. You can empathize with them and really get them to, you know, continue to talk about their pain. That’s success in sales. Hey, believe it or not, we’re up in time, Joe. Didn’t that go by fast?
Joe Pallo: Sure did. Yes.
Nancy Calabrese: Holy cow! Now, what is the one takeaway you want to leave the audience with?
Joe Pallo: Um, I would say if they wanted to apply something in sales, take a minute just to repeat back what they just said. It’s incredibly valuable and differentiates yourself from everybody else. Get away from the show up, throw up pitch that everyone does. I personally believe whoever’s talking is buying in a selling situation. If I’m talking more than you are I’m selling you and I’m buying your objections. Listening and then repeating back what they said—that’s the talking you should do, asking questions and repeat back. [19:21]
Nancy Calabrese: I totally agree. Folks, listen to this man; he knows what he’s talking about. Joe, how can my people find you?
Joe Pallo: You go to sellnothing.co, the website. Sell nothing, dot C. Couldn’t afford the ‘m’ as a Bitcoin company bought sellnothing.com, and they want like 15,000 for an ‘M’.
Nancy Calabrese: Oh my God!
Joe Pallo: It’s sellnothing.co, CEO. Okay, we’ll take it. We’ll find you. I’m sure you’re on LinkedIn as well. I’m on LinkedIn, and my book, “How to Sell Nothing: The Logical Way to Make the Emotional Sale,” is also on my website as well. [19:58]
Nancy Calabrese: Awesome! All right, first, thank you so much for spending time with us today. You’re fascinating. I love your silver bullet referral approach, and I’m definitely going to look at it myself. And for everyone out there listening, take advantage of Joe’s expertise. Reach out to him, get a copy of that book, and make it an awesome sales day. See you next time. [20:24]
