About Jason Friedman: Jason Friedman is the Founder and CEO at CXFormula, LLC, helping small businesses and entrepreneurs grow and scale their businesses, increasing customer engagement, loyalty, retention, revenues, and profits while improving their customer experience and creating raving fans. Their approach is at the intersection of psychology, theatre, business, and marketing. With decades of theatre experience between them, they combine the art of storytelling with the science of human behavior to create reliable and consistent customer momentum, generate massive engagement, and achieve incredible business growth. Jason has worked with some of the biggest brands in the world, including Nike, Disney, Foot Locker, Bank of America, and Harvard, to name a few. He’s changing the way people look at the customer journey. Check out the latest episode of our Conversational Selling podcast to learn more about Jason.
In this episode, Nancy and Jason discuss the following:
- How his journey in theater inspired Jason to develop the Kinetic Customer Formula
- The importance of shifting perspectives to prioritize the customer experience
- Flipping the sales funnel to focus on customer success
- Adopting a strategic approach to over-delivery.
- The transformative effects of prioritizing customer success.
Key Takeaways:
- Onboarding is how we help people move from one type of relationship to the next, like every transition, and a relationship is an opportunity for onboarding.
- Overdelivery is going to kill your business.
- Focus on the experience you’re creating for your customers: take a look at it through their eyes.
“What we did in theater, it’s like: people come into a show, and all the problems in the world are going on for them. Suddenly, they disappear as the orchestra plays, the lights fade, and they become very present. As the story continues, they laugh at certain moments, shriek back at others, and clap. It’s all choreographed to the end, where they are on a journey, experiencing a transformation, moving to their feet with glorious applause and standing ovations. After like 20 years of doing this, I realized, you know what? Like, I know how to keep customers’ attention and bring them in, crafting the journey that customers go on with brands, companies, online businesses, offline businesses, products, services – you name it. We help businesses create deeper engagement, focusing on clients and building deeper relationships. It results in much bigger businesses, helping you scale your business. That’s what the Kinetic Customer Formula is: all those years of experience packed into one nice little package.” – JASON
“Because what ends up happening is the first light bulb that goes off is the realization that we as businesses make it hard for our customers to do business with us. […] And so, the first thing I do is have them learn how to shift their perspective and understand the business from the customer’s point of view. And when you do that, you realize: “Oh God, this is like, I wouldn’t want to be my customer in many ways.” And that first kind of light bulb that goes off is an emotional light bulb. Some people have, you know, felt bad because they have done everything they’ve done, and all they have decided to help the customers. [..] The second light bulb is where people start to understand: “Well, okay, I get it. We can remove the friction, but I still have all this competition, spending all this money on ads and all my clients. I’m still not getting as many people in. I’m still not optimized”. And the second light bulb is that we spend all our energy focusing on how to get strangers to come to our business and talk to us, and very little of our energy and money resources on helping the people who said yes to us get those results. Now, I will help them shift their focus to the other side of the funnel. So, we flip the funnel. Those are the first two big light bulbs that blow up for people. And then from there, we go we go further.” – JASON
“If you can understand your customers that deeply, you can start to provide the journey they need to go on and make them feel safe and comfortable going on because you understand them. And most businesses know such superficial information about our customers, but when we start to go into this kind of a way to look at it, we uncover so much more. And that’s where we start to realize: “Oh, you know what? I can look at the business through their lens. I get them now”. In fact, in most companies that we work with, Nancy says to me: “Jason, you’re great. I used to hate some of my customers. I have fallen in love with them. I understand them better, and they appreciate me more because they know they feel understood”. And that changes the entire dynamic.” – JASON
Connect with Jason Friedman:
- LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasondfriedman/
- CXFormula, LLC: https://www.cxformula.com/
- FREE PDF: https://gift.cxformula.com/conversational-selling
Try Our Proven, 3-Step System, Guaranteeing Accountability and Transparency that Drives RESULTS by clicking on this link: https://oneofakindsales.com/call-center-in-a-box/
Connect with Nancy Calabrese:
- Twitter:https://twitter.com/oneofakindsales
- Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/One-Of-A-Kind-Sales-304978633264832/
- Website:https://oneofakindsales.com
- Phone: 908-879-2911
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ncalabrese/
- Email: leads@oneofakindsales
Voiceover: You’re listening to The Conversational Selling Podcast with Nancy Calabrese.
Nancy Calabrese: Hi, it’s Nancy Calabrese, and it’s time again for Conversational selling – the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today and it always starts with the human conversation. Today we’re speaking with Jason Friedman, founder and CEO of CX Formula, working with fast growing entrepreneurial companies to help them grow and scale businesses that give them stability, purpose and energy to work smarter and live better using his proprietary kinetic customer formula. Over the past 25 years, Jason has sold over 200 million in products and services through their various companies. He’s consulted with hundreds of entrepreneurs helping them grow and scale their businesses. And in addition to all of this, Jason is also CEO of Spotlight Brand Services, a marketing and brand management agency helping e-commerce businesses crush it on Amazon and other online marketplaces. Wow, Jason, where should we start? Welcome to the show.
Jason Friedman: Hey Nancy, thanks for having me. Super excited to be with you today. [1:29]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, this is going to be fun. So why don’t we jump right in and maybe you can share with us what the kinetic customer formula is about.
Jason Friedman: Yeah, so, you know, it’s a funny story. I started out, my whole journey started when I was a kid, and I was brought into the world of theater. And so, I was a behind the scenes guy, did wax and lighting and things like that. And it started at summer camp when I was very young, and each year kept kind of doing more and more of it. And I had this kind of Mr. Miyagi, wax on, wax off experience, where I learned how to engage an audience like kind of accidentally, right? And so, what we did in theater, it’s like people come into a show and all the problems in the world are going on for them. And all of a sudden, they kind of disappear as the orchestra starts to play and the lights start to fade, and they become very present. And as the story goes on, they laugh at certain moments, and they shriek back at certain moments, and they clap. And it’s all choreographed to the end where they are on a journey, and they have this transformation where they are moved by the end of it and they hope to their feet and their glorious applause and standing ovations. And it was like the same experience night after night. And so after like 20 years of doing this, I realized, you know what? Like, I actually know how to keep customers’ attention and to bring them in and to bring them on a journey with brands, with companies, with online businesses, offline businesses, with products, with services, with you name it and what we do is we help businesses today create deeper engagement and focus with their clients and build deeper relationships by helping them really craft the journey that customers go on with them. And it results in much bigger businesses. It helps you. It is a magical formula that helps you scale your business. And so that’s what the Kinetic Customer Formula really is. It’s all those years of experience kind of packed into one nice little package. [3:30]
Nancy Calabrese: So, when you begin working with a company, how long does it take for the light bulb to go off?
Jason Friedman: For their light bulb to go off or their customers light bulb to go off?
Nancy Calabrese: Well, we could do both, but I have a fair life both.
Jason Friedman: There’s a lot of light bulbs that go off, right? Because what ends up happening is the first light bulb that really goes off is the realization that we as businesses make it hard for our customers to do business with us. And when you start to understand what I mean by that and how despite our efforts to make it better for our customers, oftentimes we’ve created so many friction points, so many obstacles in their journey because we’re looking at it through our perspective as the business, right? And so, the first thing I do is have them really learn how to shift their perspective and understand the business from the customer’s point of view. And when you do that, you start to realize, oh God, this is like, I wouldn’t want to be my customer in a lot of ways. And so that first kind of light bulb that goes off and it’s an emotional light bulb, right? Some people have, you know, they feel bad because they done everything that they’ve done, all their decisions have been to help the customers. And yet in spite of that, they have some of these challenges, right? So that’s the first light bulb. The second light bulb is this light bulb where people start to understand, well, okay, I get it. Like we can take out the friction, but like I still have like all this competition and I’m spending all this money on ads and all my clients, I’m still not getting as many people in. I’m still not optimized. And the second light bulb is that we spend all our energy focusing on how to get strangers to come to our business and talk to us, and very little of our energy money resources on helping the people who said yes to us get those results. And so now I help them shift their focus to the other side of the funnel, if you will. So, we flip the funnel. And my whole premise is that when we really focus on creating success, creating results for our customers, regardless of what kind of business you have. When that becomes our focus and our energy flows there, every dollar that we spend on the front end of our funnel, every dollar that we spend bringing people in, result in an exponential return. So, it makes more sense to invest in the front end once you’ve solved this other piece. And most businesses kind of do it backwards, right? So yeah, like those are the first two big light bulbs that blow up for people. And then from there, we go we go further, right? And there’s lots of light bulbs along the journey, but once they kind of have those epiphanies and they kind of have faith that, whoa, yeah, this process is going to help me, it makes sense, then all sorts of things start to happen. We start to take massive action. [6:23]
Nancy Calabrese: Wow, huh. You know, I know that you’re all about obsessing over your customer’s success, and you do a lot of mixing with storytelling and the science of human behavior. Can you explain that in more detail?
Jason Friedman: Yeah, sure. I mean, so here’s the thing. Like, let’s take someone that has like an online business, for example, right? So, someone comes to your business and there, they watch your sales video or whatever your presentation is and they’re like, yeah, this sounds pretty good. I’m in, I’m going to do this, right? That in and of itself is not a commitment. It’s an intention, right? And we think, oh yeah, they said, yeah, they’re committed to it, but they’re not. They had an intention, and they took a step. And so, then what happens is the psychology comes in, right? There’s Byers Remorse. They’re like, huh, you know what? I probably, maybe, I don’t know, maybe I shouldn’t have done that. Or, you know, I’ve done this before, I’ve tried something in the past and it didn’t work. This is going to be the same again. And so all of these normal reptilian brain thoughts come into our heads and these cognitive biases stop us from making progress. And so like, when we start to look at what are the stories that we need to tell, how do we show people that this is going to be a different experience, right? How do we get them to forget about all that stuff, like when they come into the theater, and just be present and be part of that story, and go on the journey with us? How do they have faith and trust us? And so that begins by that very first moment, realizing we must get their commitment and we must earn their commitment, right? And so, the onboarding part, like most people think onboarding is one and done. And we believe that onboarding is this ongoing thing. We think, say to people, always be onboarding, right? And onboarding to me is how we help people move from one type of relationship to the next part of, like every transition and relationship is an opportunity for onboarding. And so, when they go from stranger to customer, there’s an onboarding moment when they go from like the beginning of their journey as a customer to maybe the next level where it’s like a whole different part of engagement, that’s an opportunity to onboard people. And so, it’s in those moments that we must gain that trust and that commitment. And we do it by setting and managing expectations by providing enough information in bite sized chunks that doesn’t overwhelm people. Right. [9:05]
Nancy Calabrese: Well.
Jason Friedman: What I see, I see so many business owners do, Nancy, is that they come in and they just say, oh, I want to give them all the stuff they need so that they have everything. And so, they give them this, like they purchase that online course and they get this email of death. And it’s like, oh my God, there’s four billion things I have to do. And that’s when you’re like, I don’t have time for this. I shouldn’t have bought this. Oh, what was I thinking? Right? [9:30]
Nancy Calabrese: Right. I totally agree with you. I totally. Too much information is a turn off.
Jason Friedman: Yeah, and we need to know them. So again, using our theater background, the next epiphany that we have people kind of go through is really to understand their quote avatar, their ideal customers or their personas, whatever word you use, how do we help them understand them on a deeper level? And so, we use it in a way that people do in theater, right? So, imagine that you’re Matthew McConaughey or Robert De Niro, and you’re playing this character in a film. How do you get into character? So that when you’re on stage, everything about your isms, your mannerisms, your breath, your vocal, your whole backstory is all so believable that when we’re watching the show, people are like, oh yeah, like he’s totally that guy. It’s not Matthew McCona anymore, he’s this guy. And so, if you can understand your customers that deeply, you can start to provide the journey that they need to go on and that they feel safe and comfortable going on, because you understand them. And most businesses, we know such superficial information about our customers, when we start to go into this kind of a way to look at it, we uncover so much more. And that’s where we start to realize, oh, you know what? I can look at the business through their lens. I get them now. In fact, most companies that we work with, Nancy, they say to me, Jason, you’re a great I used to hate some of my customers. I have fallen in love with them. I understand them better and they appreciate me more because they know they feel understood, right? And that changes the entire dynamic. Always been there. Yeah. [11:16]
Nancy Calabrese: Right. Wow. I think that’s a great idea. Yeah. Oh my God. So, I mean, I don’t know if we’ve kind of covered it, but do you have a particular unique idea that is different and sets you apart?
Jason Friedman: I mean, I think many of our ideas set us apart. But again, this idea of, like, what is an ideal result for your customer? So, for example, like, if I’m a diet business, right? I’m teaching people about weight loss, for example, right? I might think, oh, like, the ideal result is that they lose 20 pounds, right? Well, that is not the ideal result. The ideal result is more around how that customer feels about their journey, right? So, if I, like 20 pounds is the way we get them the result, but the result is that they feel more confident in their skin, that they feel like instead of sitting on the TV watching Netflix alone on a Saturday night, they’re calling friends and going out. And like when they walk in their closet, they feel good about the clothes that they can put on. They feel confident. That’s the ideal result. And so, when we start to teach people about how to really think about the results, It’s the idea of, we call it the R4, right? We want, the result is that we want people to rave about the journey they just had with you. We want people to renew their memberships or their subscriptions with you because they would feel lost if they weren’t part of that community. We want them to return to buy more products, the next product, the next level of products from you because they feel so moved by what’s happened that they just can’t help but want more. And ideally, the last part is that they recruit others to come work in your business because they feel this compulsion that they want other people to come in. They want to help people get what they got from you because it was so outstanding. And so, when you really think about the result that way, you start to do what we call write an ideal customer script, right? I want you to script the perfect testimonial that your customer would say because most businesses think, yeah, I’ve got great testimonials. It’s like, oh, I lost 20 pounds, it was awesome. That’s not a great testimony. The testimonial I just shared about like my life; I love me again. I go in my closet, and I put on clothes, and I feel good. I go out instead of sitting at home alone. I have never felt so confident in my life. That’s a testimonial that’s going to get someone to go by from you. And when I had that experience, if I had that experience, I’m telling everybody I know, because it was transformational. And so, what I want people to do is to reverse engineer everything that happens so that people, like a conveyor belt, like an assembly line, they have that same experience. And in theater, like when I was, I toured on the road with big Broadway shows like Jesus Christ Superstar, Fiddler on the Roof, Man of La Mancha, guess what? Every single night with a completely different audience, they laughed at the exact same moment. Every single night with the completely different audience, every single different city doesn’t matter. They had the same applause. They did the same things at the same time because it was scripted. It was practiced. It was engineered to take them on that journey. And most of them leave that to chance in our businesses. So, when you go through our program, you learn a system. You build an operating system for your business that delivers delighted customers who bring other people to your business over and over again. You’ve created this recruiting system of like, this crazy like word of mouth and this energy from people that they have to tell other people about your business. So then when you start doing all the other sales functions, all the things that you were doing to bring people in, now you know that you’re gonna actually get big results and they’re gonna convert. And those dollars that you spend on marketing, the things that you start marketing, are the success stories of your other clients. And that’s how you win. And so, we scale businesses by helping them do this over and over again. And it’s one of the most fulfilling things I’ve ever done in my life. [15:31]
Nancy Calabrese: Do you have a… I could hear your passion about it. Do you target a certain industry? Are you industry agnostic?
Jason Friedman: Sadly, most industries think, well, but it won’t work in my business, right? You’ve been down this road before, right? It doesn’t matter. If you have customers in your business, this will help you, right? It really doesn’t matter. And Nancy, the crazy thing about this, the strategic byproduct is, and well, it’s that your employees end up loving their job more. Your employees, your culture in your business transforms you start to attract more right fit employees because they want to be part of the movement you’ve created. And so, some people come to us just to do this exact same formula just for the inside of their business because it’s the same formula, we do it the same way. And so, it’s just a powerful, powerful tool that we’ve spent years just kind of making better and making better. And it just makes sense. Like if you have clients who love you, they’re going to tell other people and that’s what we all want. Like nobody, I’ve never spoken to a single person that said to me, I don’t care if my clients like my product or not, you know? And if they do, if they are those people, it’s like, look, I just want the $10, if I get some returns, I don’t care, that’s not my client. They’re never going to buy my product and I don’t want them to, right? I want their competition to beat them because they’re doing good things to help people. Right, and that’s what we want to do. [17:00]
Nancy Calabrese: Something that’s true that almost nobody agrees with you on.
Jason Friedman: That’s a great question. So here’s the, well, I’m going to tell you something that nobody agrees with me on at first. Okay? And here’s what it is. Overdelivery is going to kill your business. And they’re like, wait, what? When you overdeliver all the time, under promise, overdeliver. When it’s like, I’m going to always overdeliver. Like I always overdeliver my clients. They love me. I promise you that it will kill your business. And here’s why. Because the world needs contrast. The only way we know if something is good is if we had something bad. We must have a comparison. And if everything you do is a 10, it’s just expected. It’s no longer over delivery. So, what you’ve created by always over delivering is you’ve created an expectation of over delivery. So, all you can do is fail when you can’t think of another idea to do or you don’t have any more money to keep spending, to keep up leveling. And so, what we teach people to do is what we call strategic over delivery. Pick key moments that you wanna go a little bit above that are most meaningful to those customers. And so, when you get into character and you know who those customers are, you’ll know what moments matter the most. And that’s where we get that reward of an over delivery. And so, what you do is you set and manage expectations. And when you do what you say, just do what you say, you’re better than most businesses out there today. And you’ve built trust. And then when you pick key moments to go a little bit above and beyond, and maybe you’re always at a five, you go to a seven. Sometimes you go to an eight. Maybe you do an occasional 10. They will appreciate it. They will see it as over delivery and they will thank you, but it won’t build this expectation that that’s what you have to do all the time, and they will still love you. They’ll actually love you more. So that’s the one that I fight with people on initially, and then they finally say, you know what? That’s actually pretty smart. [19:15]
Nancy Calabrese: I love it. Yeah. I love it. Hey, I can’t believe we’re up in time already. What is the one takeaway you want to leave the audience with?
Jason Friedman: Yeah, like the big the big aha, like if you take nothing else away, focus on the experience you’re creating for your customers. Take a look at it through their eyes. Shop your experience and stop making it hard for people to do business with you. [19:38]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. I love it. I know you have the gift for the audience, right?
Jason Friedman: Yeah, I do. I know we’re living on time, and so I’m not going to tell you what it is, but I’m gonna tell you this. I have a PDF that will take you less than 10 minutes to go through. It’s totally free, no obligations to do anything further beyond that, and you can’t get it if you just go to my main website at cxformula.com. The only way you can get it is if you go to gift, g-i-f-t dot cxformula.com slash conversational dash selling and I’m telling you less than 10 minutes. And it’s an idea, it’s a big idea, like I shared with over delivery. It’s a bigger idea than that, with some actionable ways you can start using it, that will literally change your business. You got nothing to lose. [20:23]
Nancy Calabrese: Love it. Oh my God. You’re fabulous. I really enjoyed our discussion and everyone out there, he knows what he’s doing. So, for all of us or all of you out there that have customers and could really benefit from getting involved with your customers to the degree that Jason can teach you, I urge that you call. How can they reach you, Jason? Is LinkedIn profile, phone number?
Jason Friedman: You can definitely hit me up on LinkedIn if you want. It’s linkedin.com slash in slash Jason D Friedman. You can hit us up at my website, cxformula.com. There’s a contact us information. It’s got our phone number, all that on there. So yeah, definitely reach out. Love to chat with anybody. [21:09]
Nancy Calabrese: Great. Listen, again, everyone out there, take advantage of Jason’s generous offer and make it an awesome sales day. See you next time. [21:22]
