About Deb Brown Maher: Deb Brown Maher owns Deb Brown Sales, a company that helps small business owners succeed through improved sales performance. She has over thirty years of experience in sales leadership, training, and coaching. Her clients boast that she successfully moves them from “stuck” to “productive” by empowering them to change how they approach sales. Deb is passionate about helping people sell from a position of integrity. She shares her methods in her book and video training course “Sell Like Jesus: 7 Characteristics of Christ for Ethical Sales”. Deb has an impressive track record of getting results — first as a salesperson, then as a sales leader for various organizations, and now as the owner of Deb Brown Sales. She loves working with small business owners who have to sell but hate to sell. Her long-term goal is to eliminate the negative stereotype of sales by changing how people sell. Check out the latest episode of our Conversational Selling podcast to learn more about Deb.
In this episode, Nancy and Deb discuss the following:
- The reason why many people hate selling.
- Ways of changing the minds of business owners who must sell but aren’t into it.
- Selling is having a persuasive conversation.
- The history of Deb’s book: Sell Like Jesus, Seven Characteristics of Christ for Ethical Sales.
- Value of a balance of caring for others and standing our ground in sales.
- If you’re talking, you’re not selling.
- You can’t sell anything to anyone until you understand what they want to buy.
- Why nobody can convince anyone of anything.
- You don’t have to be an expert in your product to sell it effectively.
Key Takeaways:
- Changing mindset starts first with the willingness to look at sales from a different perspective.
- If you don’t have a ready response that creates a win-win scenario, you will end up in a win-lose or a lose-win, both of which are loose loops.
- If prospects know a lot and you’re telling them all the great features and benefits, you’re insulting them because you’re discounting what they know without knowing it.
- Good news for those who think you must do dog-and-pony shows – you don’t. In fact, it’s usually insulting.
- Passion drives you. But that passion alone isn’t enough to sell effectively.
- A book might be worth that expense just to read to get alternative perspectives because the phrasing, the way of saying things and doing things differently, is not intuitive.
“So, if you’re in sales, you are going to be asked to lower your price. And if you don’t have a ready response that creates the win-win scenario, then you’re going to end up in a win-lose or a lose-win, both of which are loose loops.” – DEB
“ What I did was look at how Jesus communicated. And I elevated the techniques that he used to these seven characteristics. The first one is a character, then connection, clarity, comprehension, certainty, choice, and commitment. Now you can imagine there are a lot of nuances under each one of those characteristics but basically what I did was take the steps of the sales process from preparation to setting expectations to having that sales conversation, closing, delivering, and doing the follow-up and follow-through, and applied that that structure in each of these characteristics, if that makes sense. ” – DEB
“Going back to something you said about the importance of preparation, we need to be prepared for each sales process step. And when you’re making a first contact, the goal is to go ahead and do your selling on that call if you’re in a one-call close. But most people are not. And so, the goal of that first call is to create space to have a deeper discussion, whether it’s face-to-face or a video conference, or a separate phone call where you have enough time set aside to go through the process of qualifying effectively.” – DEB
Connect with Deb Brown Maher:
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debbrownmaher/
- Deb Brown Sales: http://www.debbrownsales.com
- Worshipful Art:https://deborah-brown.pixels.com/
Try Our Proven, 3-Step System, Guaranteeing Accountability and Transparency that Drives RESULTS by clicking on this link: https://oneofakindsales.com/call-center-in-a-box/
Connect with Nancy Calabrese:
- Twitter: https://twitter.com/oneofakindsales
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/One-Of-A-Kind-Sales-304978633264832/
- Website: https://oneofakindsales.com
- Phone: 908-879-2911
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ncalabrese/
- Email: leads@oneofakindsales.com
Voiceover: You’re listening to The Conversational Selling Podcast with Nancy Calabrese.
Nancy Calabrese: Hi everyone, it’s Nancy Calabrese and it’s time again for Conversational Selling, the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today and it always starts with the human conversation. Today we’re speaking with Deb Brown Maher, President of Deb Brown Sales. Deb helps business owners and entrepreneurs change the way they sell from convincing a prospect that they must buy to instead being of service. She loves working with small business owners who have to sell but hate to sell. Her long-term goal is to eliminate the negative stereotype of sales by changing the way people sell. Welcome to the show, Deb. Let’s dive right in. [1:00]
Deb Brown Maher: It sounds good, Nancy.
Nancy Calabrese: Well, okay, obviously, why do so many people hate selling?
Deb Brown Maher: I think it’s because we’ve all had that horribly negative experience with a salesperson who tried to push us into buying. So, when we put that sales hat on, we don’t want to do what was done to us.
Nancy Calabrese: Yep. Huh. You know, you work with business owners who must sell, but they hate selling. So how do you get them to change that mindset?
Deb Brown Maher: It starts first with the willingness to look at sales from a different perspective. So, we have to put aside the negative experiences that we’ve had and realize that there were things that were done that caused us to be offended or to feel pressured. And when we sell, we don’t have to do the same things.
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. You know, selling to me is just having a conversation with someone that you don’t know yet.
Deb Brown Maher: Absolutely. And, adding to that a structure that helps you accomplish your purposes. Because ultimately what you want is for the prospect to have a good experience, good enough that they buy, but also that it’s a good fit for you. Have you ever taken on a client that you wish you hadn’t? [2:48]
Nancy Calabrese: Oh yeah.
Deb Brown Maher: Yeah, the one you wish you could fire, or maybe you have fired some.
Nancy Calabrese: I have fired.
Deb Brown Maher: So, it must be good for both parties. And although win-win can be heard as a trite kind of phrase, ultimately what we really are looking to do is make sure that we experience benefit and… the prospect experiences benefit at the same time by working together. [3:25]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. I just want to add to my earlier comment. Selling is having a conversation with people you don’t know, but also people you do know, right?
Deb Brown Maher: Yeah, sometimes that’s harder.
Nancy Calabrese: I know it’s the art of persuasion. You know, how do I get my daughter to do something that I know she doesn’t want to do?
Deb Brown Maher: Uh huh, yep.
Nancy Calabrese: It’s all about communication. So, let’s move into your awesome book, Sell Like Jesus, Seven Characteristics of Christ for Ethical Sales. I mean, how did you even come up with that title and compare it to Jesus?
Deb Brown Maher: Well, I spend a lot of time in prayer, and I believe prayer is also a conversation. It’s just a conversation with God where I don’t hear his audible voice, but I certainly sense his leading. And one day I was talking with my coach, and he made the statement, “‘ Deb, you really ought to write a book.’ Well, Nancy, I never wanted to write.” It was never on my radar screen. So, my flippant quick response was, I don’t even know what I would write about. And then popped into my head “unless it would be Selling Like Jesus”. And as soon as I heard the words, I thought, oh no, now I’m in trouble because I’m going to have to do this. I’m going to have to write this book. [05:03]
Nancy Calabrese: Right. And so, what are the seven characteristics?
Deb Brown Maher: So, what I did was look at how Jesus communicated. And I elevated the techniques that he used to these seven characteristics. The first one is a character, then connection, clarity, comprehension, certainty, choice, and commitment. Now you can imagine there are a lot of nuances under each one of those characteristics but basically what I did was take the steps of the sales process from preparation to setting expectations to having that sales conversation, closing, delivering, and doing the follow-up and follow-through, and applied that that structure in each of these characteristics, if that makes sense. [6:21]
Nancy Calabrese: Wow, okay. How long did it take you to write the book?
Deb Brown Maher: Well, there’s the long version and the short version. So, the long version is seven years. Okay.
Nancy Calabrese: Wow.
Deb Brown Maher: So, what happened? I told you I never aspired to be a writer. And so, I started writing and getting my thoughts down on paper. And I had a couple of life circumstances that got me off track. And each time I came back, my challenge was that I didn’t want to write just another sales book. I wanted to write something that was going to be new, and innovative, that brought a perspective to selling that wasn’t already out there. And so I struggled to come up with my outline, the chapters that I just read. [7:24]
Nancy Calabrese: Wow.
Deb Brown Maher: And so finally, after six and a half years, I was with a different coach and I said to her, I have got to get this book written. And what’s stopping me is having the skeleton to hang all the information on. She asked me three or four very insightful questions. And in 20 minutes, I had my structure. And then it only took me 10 weeks to write the book. It had been percolating for all those years, right?
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, yeah. And now your voice is being read and heard. I know that you state that sales success includes a balance of caring for others and knowing how and when to stand your ground to attain win-win results. I love that. When do we stand our ground in sales?
Deb Brown Maher: Well, the main example that I hear from almost everyone that I work with is they feel pressured to lower their price because every customer under the sun has been taught by marketing campaigns that there’s going to be a discount, some kind of percent off and they don’t ask you don’t get, so I’m going to ask, it was kind of the buyer’s mindset. [8:57]
Nancy Calabrese: Right.
Deb Brown Maher: So, if you’re in sales, you are going to be asked to lower your price. And if you don’t have a ready response that creates the win-win scenario, then you’re going to end up in a win-lose or a lose-win, both of which are loose loops.
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. Yeah, you know, I am very big on being prepared. And what you said just a moment ago, you must have sort of like a script for any of these objections, right? To refer to. Another thing that I’ve learned about you, and I totally agree, is if you’re talking, you’re not selling. Explain.
Deb Brown Maher: Yes. Again, the way sales have been done, we would think that we must be the expert, which means we’re doing the talking, explaining, and teaching. The problem with that is if we’re talking, we’re not learning anything about the prospect. Instead, we need to be asking questions to understand how they think. what’s important to them, what they know or don’t know about the product and service that you’re selling. [10:24]
Nancy Calabrese: Right.
Deb Brown Maher: Because otherwise, so if they know a lot and you’re telling them all the great features and benefits, what you’re doing is insulting them because you’re discounting what they know without knowing it.
Nancy Calabrese: Right. Well, I’ve always said you can’t sell anything to anyone until you understand what they want to buy.
Deb Brown Maher: Right. And just because they asked you for information doesn’t give you carte blanche to go off on your spiel, your presentation. Instead, that presentation should be the very last thing that you do once you know the person is ready to buy because, at that point, you’re only going to present what’s important to them. So, it’s a time saver. It puts the kind of puts the bow on the package to seal the sale. Instead of being, you know, the song and dance and trying to impress you. And everybody sees through that. So, good news for those of you who think you must do dog and pony shows, you don’t. In fact, it’s usually insulting. [11:49]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah.
Deb Brown Maher: There’s a better way, right, Nancy?
Nancy Calabrese: And as you’ve said, well, you’ve said nobody can convince anyone of anything. Right? They must come to their own conclusion.
Deb Brown Maher: Yes.
Nancy Calabrese: And earlier, you know, that you love working with small business owners who hate to sell because they probably try to convince a prospect they must buy instead of understanding their world.
Deb Brown Maher: Right. They think they must convince. That’s another misconception about sales. Sales are not about convincing. It’s about helping others discover whether they want to do business with you or not. And at the same time, you’re discovering if you want to do business with them. And that… is the win-win circle that we’re looking to complete. [12:51]
Nancy Calabrese: I totally agree. And, you know, in several of my podcasts, the doctor example comes up, you know, you go to a doctor, and they must diagnose you and how did they diagnose you? They ask questions before they can prescribe. And that’s what sales is about.
Deb Brown Maher: Yeah, we, in essence, need to be doctors of sales, doctors of selling our product or service.
Nancy Calabrese: Oh, I like that. A doctorate of sales. Yeah, really, I really do like that. So, tell me something true that almost nobody agrees with you on.
Deb Brown Maher: You don’t have to be an expert in your product to be able to sell it effectively. [13:45]
Nancy Calabrese: Absolutely, absolutely.
Deb Brown Maher: In fact, the more you know, the more traps you fall into because you want to tell people what you know.
Nancy Calabrese: Right. You know, it’s funny because, in our business, some customers feel that we must be experts in their business. And that is so untrue. So, we set appointments, right, for our clients.
Deb Brown Maher: Right.
Nancy Calabrese: And we don’t want to be the expert. We want to get through enough information through questioning to say ”pivot, well, let me get you on with the expert to move forward”.
Deb Brown Maher: Yes.
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, and very often, and I don’t know if this has been your experience, but very often, when you do get a prospect on the phone, people automatically go into cell mode, right? Rather than just setting the appointment to prepare for the call. What are your thoughts on that? [14:43]
Deb Brown Maher: I think going back to something you said about the importance of preparation, we need to be prepared for each step of the sales process. And when you’re making a first contact, the goal of that contact is if you’re in a one-call close, then, go ahead and do your selling on that call. But most people are not. And so, the goal of that first call is to create space to have a deeper discussion, whether it’s face-to-face or a video conference, or a separate phone call where you have enough time set aside to go through the process of qualifying effectively.
Nancy Calabrese: Yep, that is so good. So just another question. I mean, have you always been selling?
Deb Brown Maher: Oh, yeah, since I was eight, I made about 40 potholders on that little loom with the cloth loops. And my mom said, “Deb, I can’t use all these”. So, I said, “I’ll see if the neighbor ladies want to buy something”. And lo and behold, they did. And I caught the bug. I loved earning my own money. [16:06]
Nancy Calabrese: Wow, that is awesome. So, you know, we’re almost up with time. What is one takeaway you’d like to leave the audience with?
Deb Brown Maher: I would like to encourage business owners to be open to looking at sales differently. You got into business because you have a passion for whatever your product or service brings to the table. And that passion drives you. That passion alone isn’t enough to sell effectively. But if you’re afraid of sales and you constantly reject learning about just some basic strategies to get better at it, then your chances are you’re undermining your ultimate business success. [17:00]
Nancy Calabrese: I totally agree with you.
Deb Brown Maher: So, I would encourage you, yeah, encourage all small business owners to take a deep breath and go, okay, maybe there is a better way to sell. And maybe, I mean, the book on Kindle is only $10 or the paperback is only $14, it might be worth that expense to just read to get alternative perspectives because the phrasing, the way of saying things, and doing things differently is not intuitive.
Nancy Calabrese: Well, how can my people find you?
Deb Brown Maher: I would direct people to my website, debrownsales.com.
Nancy Calabrese: Okay, well, everyone out there, first up Deb, I really enjoyed having this conversation. I know we’re kindred spirits just in speaking with you. And I encourage my audience, everyone out there reach out to Deb. She’s got a lot of selling common sense and she also is a doctorate of sales. How do you like that, Deb?
Deb Brown Maher: Thanks for the promotion. [18:18]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, everyone makes it a great sales day. Take advantage of her book. Go look it up on Amazon so we can all sell like Jesus. See you next time. [18:33]
