by Nancy Calabrese | Sep 26, 2023 | Podcast
About Rachel Cossar: Rachel Cossar is a leader in the field of nonverbal communication and leadership presence facilitation. As a former nationally ranked athlete and professional ballet dancer, Rachel has a knack of translating unique skills into relatable business skills and competencies. Virtual Sapiens comes as an evolution of Rachel’s combined work as founder of Choreography for Business, a nonverbal communication consulting firm as well as a faculty member with Mobius Executive Leadership and as a leadership presence facilitator with Ariel Group. Rachel has worked with leaders from GE, BCG, Pfizer, Accenture, McKinsey, HBS and more. With the increased dependency of video events as a way to connect and drive impact across organizations, Rachel and her team at Virtual Sapiens are excited to open up a world of access when it comes to one of the most human, and most important skills in business – communication. Check out the latest episode of our Conversational Selling podcast to learn more about Rachel.
In this episode, Nancy and Rachel discuss the following:
- Importance of self-reinvention.
- Mistakes that sellers make when they’re on video.
- The significance of video call backgrounds.
- The role of the background in the world of remote jobs.
- Non-verbal cues and behaviors that need to be mastered to be an effective communicator.
- Hand gesture etiquette on remote meetings.
- The hacks with lens and seat cushion and their role in making an impression.
- Rachel’s way to success.
Key Takeaways:
- There are transitions and changes around us all the time, whether we realize it or not.
- In the sales process, it’s more than making the sale, it’s about building the relationship and the rapport.
- The background speaks volumes about choices you’ve made or not made when you’ve decided to show up on video with the other person.
- Using hand gestures is a wonderful tool to create a sense of openness, warmth, of invitation.
- The importance of developing a new sense of muscle memory around the way we express ourselves on a screen.
“You know, I think a lot of us felt that or experienced that at some point during the pandemic and there tends to be, of course, fear around change and transition, but sometimes I find people turn to wherever they’re going next and forget where they came from.And so, in my experience, the process of reinventing myself, which I’ve done so many times, is always on the shoulders of these past identities I’ve had. And I think that concept is really fascinating and powerful.” – RACHEL
“Some of the top cues and behaviors that need to be mastered to be an effective communicator are posture, where you’re looking, how you use your eyes when you’re speaking, and as a listener. The way you use your hands and facial expressions. Those would be some of the top four non-verbal categories to be aware of. And on video, of course, all of them are very present. The one thing I’ll say as a caveat on video is the way you frame yourself is critical because if you are going to have your lens positioned such that we can only see the very top of your head, or we can’t see your face because you’re looking at a different screen and your lens is somewhere else like those are things that are just from the get-go, very detrimental to your presence because you’ve ruined the human connection that we can take advantage of on video.” – RACHEL
“Using hand gestures is a wonderful tool to create a sense of openness, warmth, of invitation. It helps people trust you more because they know that you are present with them, that you’re not fiddling around with some unseen phone or tablet or… animal or whatever, right? People like to see open-palm hand gestures. It’s very soothing. It’s very reassuring. So that’s number one. On the other end of the spectrum though, some people over-rely on hand gestures to communicate. And when the hand gestures are kind of waving around nonsensically and there’s not an intentional connection between the way hand gestures are being used and the words that are being communicated, hand gestures, in that case, can be distracting. So yeah, I mean, it’s all about, and then there’s like different types of when you’re touching your face with your hands, that can signal stress and anxiety and discomfort. And so, the way, what it really comes down to is developing a hand gesture vocabulary that supports the message you’re trying to send.” – RACHEL
Connect with Rachel Cossar:
Try Our Proven, 3-Step System, Guaranteeing Accountability and Transparency that Drives RESULTS by clicking on this link: https://oneofakindsales.com/call-center-in-a-box/
Connect with Nancy Calabrese:
Voiceover: You’re listening to The Conversational Selling Podcast with Nancy Calabrese.
Nancy Calabrese: Hi everyone, it’s Nancy Calabrese, and it’s time again for Conversational Selling, the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today, and it always starts with the human conversation. Today we’re speaking with Rachel Cossar, the CEO and co-founder of Virtual Sapiens, a machine learning SaaS platform that helps client-facing professionals develop and amplify their communication skills and presence in a virtual world. As a former professional ballet dancer and gymnast with unparalleled expertise in nonverbal communication and live performance, Rachel has a knack for translating unique skills into relatable business skills and competencies. Her thought leadership has been featured on the TEDx Northeastern stage, Harvard Business Review and the Boston Globe to name a few. And she’s worked with leaders such as G.E.M. Pfizer. Welcome to the show, Rachel. This is gonna be a great discussion. [1:18]
Rachel: Thank you, Nancy, for having me.
Nancy Calabrese: Oh, my goodness. So, you talk a lot about reinvention. Why is that so important for all of us?
Rachel: Reinvention, it’s interesting. I find transitions and changes around us all the time, whether we realize it or not, but I also find that everyone is at some point in their lives, or maybe multiple times in their lives is going to have to face a pretty big transition. You know, I think a lot of us felt that or experienced that at some point during the pandemic and there tends to be, of course, fear around change and transition, but sometimes I find people turn to wherever they’re going next and forget where they came from. And so, in my experience, the process of reinventing myself, which I’ve done so many times, is always on the shoulders of these past identities I’ve had. And I think that concept is really fascinating and powerful. [2:20]
Nancy Calabrese: So, you basically are taking your prior experiences into your new experience when you reinvent yourself. Is that what you’re saying?
Rachel: Right.
Nancy Calabrese: Cool. So, you’re all about virtual selling and presentation, which is my world, by the way. And you talk about mistakes that sellers make when they’re on video, especially when it comes to their… What do you mean by that?
Rachel: Yeah, I mean, it’s interesting because we’ve video was really activated during the pandemic. And during the pandemic, it was just about showing up, and having your video turned on was a bonus, right? Because few of us had much choice in where we were connecting from because there were so few choices we had at that time. And now that we’re evolving out of the pandemic, and video continues to be a primary channel of connection with our prospects and clients, there’s a big gap I find in the education and awareness around some of the messages we may be sending when we show up on video. Specifically, if you think about these squares of real estate we have on video, they accentuate some of the most expressive parts of ourselves, our faces, our upper bodies, our shoulders, the way we move our heads, our hand gestures if we’re framed properly and you can see those. All those components of visual communication can send a very powerful message of preparedness and respect and perceive trustworthiness and authority, or they can really undermine those things, right? And we both know that in the selling or sales relationship, you know, it’s more than making… the sale, it’s about building the relationship and the rapport. And a lot of that can be made or not over video. [4:25]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, you know, I’m often surprised at the backgrounds some people use or, you know, or in when they do video. How does that impact, you know, a potential customer?
Rachel: Definitely. The background speaks volumes about choices you’ve made or not made when you’ve decided to show up on video with this other person, right? And I think it’s very easy to become… to almost forget… what, or to get used to the background you have, right? And the background you have becomes very normal and you don’t pick up on little details that someone who’s seeing the background for the first time will be like, oh, like what is that thing there in the corner? And oh, that ceiling fan is just going round and round. And every time I think it’s going to biff them in the head, or these little distractions of an unintentional background can require mental energy from your audience, that would be better on your message. [5:36]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, distractions are exactly, you’re right. Well, you know, in my space, you’re not seeing this, but I have a huge picture of Paul McCartney. He’s, my idol. And it is, he is an icebreaker though, I must say, for a lot of people. And I’m shocked some people don’t even know who it is. So, well, go figure. Okay, you talk about nonverbal cues and behaviors that need to be mastered to be an effective communicator. What are some of the top ones? [6:12]
Rachel: Definitely. Some of the top ones are posture, where you’re looking, how you use your eyes when you’re speaking, and as a listener. The way you use your hands and facial expressions. Those would be some of the top four non-verbal categories to be aware of. And on video, of course, all of them are very present. The one thing I’ll say as a caveat on video is the way you frame yourself is critical because if you are going to have your lens positioned such that we can only see the very top of your head, or we can’t see your face because you’re looking at a different screen and your lens is somewhere else like those are things that are just from the get-go, very detrimental to your presence because you’ve ruined the human connection that we can take advantage of on video. [7:09]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, talk more about hand gestures though. What do you mean by that? Because I talk with my hands.
Rachel: Yeah, definitely. Hand gestures are a fascinating category of non-verbal because it’s quite rich. And yes, using hand gestures is a wonderful tool to create a sense of openness, warmth, of invitation. It helps people trust you more because they know that you are present with them, that you’re not fiddling around with some unseen phone or tablet or… animal or whatever, right? People like to see open-palm hand gestures. It’s very soothing. It’s very reassuring. So that’s number one. On the other end of the spectrum though, some people over-rely on hand gestures to communicate. And when the hand gestures are kind of waving around nonsensically and there’s not an intentional connection between the way hand gestures are being used and the words that are being communicated, hand gestures, in that case, can be distracting. [8:12]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah.
Rachel: So yeah, I mean, it’s all about, and then there’s like different types of when you’re touching your face with your hands, that can signal stress and anxiety and discomfort. And so, the way, what it really comes down to is developing a hand gesture vocabulary that supports the message you’re trying to send.
Nancy Calabrese: Right, yeah. Now, when we first got into COVID, I met with this woman who used to do broadcasting. One of the tricks that, tips she gave me was to buy a seat cushion to raise myself up. So, I’m looking square in the camera. Is that something that you recommend as well?
Rachel: Yes, whether it’s a seat cushion or propping, sometimes people need to prop their lens up a little bit higher so that they’re not looking down on the camera. The lens is like the other person or it’s like your audience’s eyes, right? It’s their vantage point. If you investigate the lens, you’re looking directly into their faces. And so, the way you orient around the lens is important. And that the level of the lens, making it easy for you to investigate the lens when you’re speaking increases your authority. Little hacks like that really go a long way. [9:32]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, and you know, it’s interesting what she taught me was I wasn’t looking at the camera. I was looking at her on Zoom. And so, I was looking down. So, I’m glad that she pointed that out to me. Okay, AI is big news nowadays. So how does that come into the equation with what you do?
Rachel: AI is central to what we do at Virtual Sapiens. So, all those nonverbal cues that I just mentioned, we’ve trained our AI to recognize. And so, when you’re interacting with any of our solutions, our AI will analyze your video feed and then provide you with personalized feedback on how you were showing up throughout that video recording or video meeting and provide you with suggestions on how you might level up your presence essentially. [10:23]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, I’m just curious. So, I know your background is ballerina and gymnast. How did you wind up in this role and this, you know, being the owner of this company?
Rachel: Yes, through a series of reinventions, full circle back to the beginning of the conversation. But it does sound like a drastic leap, but when you follow the thread, it makes sense. I retired from Boston Ballet after dancing with the company for 10 years in 2016 and started working at Harvard in their fundraising department, which is heavy on relationships. And I noticed that there was a general lack of awareness when it came to the way people were showing up physically, their body language, their presence. And so, because of this like dancer spider-sense, right, as a dancer, you’re performing, and you only use your body to communicate. There are no words. And so I had this like nonverbal communication sensibility already and so I started studying the field and the different applications of it in restaurants, with sales teams, leaders, et cetera, started consulting in that space in my own right, but then also as a facilitator with other companies. And then when the pandemic happened, I was just like, if we’re going to be on video, we can use technology to our advantage here. [11:43]
Nancy Calabrese: Wow, wow. And so, going back to AI, what do we need to be wary of when we use AI?
Rachel: In this application, right, so AI as a coach, and when the AI is analyzing your behaviors, whether they’re verbal, nonverbal, or vocal, the thing to really pay attention to is, where is the science behind the insights that are being shared? Have these metrics and insights, are they backed up by the most recent science and peer-reviewed research? Um, that’s one thing I would say is important to just confirm because it’s easy like information’s everywhere these days. And so, what you might see, for example, is, oh, this, um, AI coach over here will tell me how many times I’ve smiled. And it’s like, so what? Like, you know, like how is there, is there a study somewhere that says if you smile 15 times in a one-hour meeting that somehow has. You know, it’s like, it can’t be reduced to such a specific arbitrary number. Right? So, at Virtual Sapiens, we look at facial expression variation or expressivity, because we know when people engage with their facial muscles, in whatever way, it could be a surprise, shock, anger, frustration, happiness, or sadness. It depends on the context, which emotions make sense. So, we’re not going to tell you how to… how to feel or what to express, but we will tell you if you’re coming across as completely monotonous with your expressions. [13:20]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, funny, something I learned as well. When I listen to people over, say, a Zoom environment, my mouth droops. And so, I have to make a concerted effort to kind of keep my mouth from drooping. I was not aware of that.
Rachel: Right, right. I mean, that’s a perfect example of our habits on screens are a little, when it comes to the way we engage with a screen, we tend to be more passive, right? When we’re watching a movie, we just sit there and watch it. But now we’re having these human interactions that are alive with other human beings. And so, we must almost develop a new sense of muscle memory around the way we express ourselves on a screen. [14:09]
Nancy Calabrese: This is fascinating stuff. Tell me something that’s true that almost nobody agrees with you on.
Rachel: I mean, let’s see, I think that video, when used well, both in the sense of when the human who’s on video is skilled and aware and can communicate effectively and when the video is the proper channel to use is one of the most powerful ways that as humans we can connect.
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. And, you know, in wrapping up the show, what is the one takeaway you want to leave the audience with?
Rachel: I would say for all the audience members, the next time you are on a video call, which I would assume is soon, pay attention to not only some of the ways you are showing up, right? But how other people are showing up and whether you’re able to sense that they’ve had some kind of training or practice or put some real effort into the way they’re showing up as communicators. Or if they’re kind of… just turning the camera on to show that there’s a human on the other side. [15:26]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, one final thought before we wrap this up. Matching and mirroring is so important. What do you have to say about that?
Rachel: Yes, fascinating. So, one of our advisors who is a behavioral scientist, did her whole thesis on mirroring and mimicry. She started her thesis before the pandemic and then had to finish it during the pandemic and found that over the video, that same concept of a conversation when there’s synchrony in the conversation, people will mirror one another’s behaviors. That kind of behavioral concept is very present on video, which is fascinating because you would think that maybe the channel’s not strong enough but turns out that it is. [16:16]
Nancy Calabrese: I think it’s crucial in the sales process to use your nonverbal cues, as you’ve mentioned, and really listen in, and by listening in, like very often when I’m deep in listening, I kind of lean forward to make sure I’m getting everything. At the end of the day, I love what you do. I told you; you have such an interesting story. How can my audience find you?
Rachel: I’m most easily found on LinkedIn. So just Rachel Cossar on LinkedIn. Would love to connect with anyone who’s interested in speaking further. And our tools, anyone can try our assessment or Sidekick Coach for free on our website. So that’s virtualsapiens.co, C-O. [17:08]
Nancy Calabrese: Okay, very good. And everyone, I really recommend you go to Rachel’s website and listen to her TEDx speech. It was fabulous. And it kept my attention for the whole time. It was great. So, Rachel, thanks for being here. I enjoyed speaking with you. I hope that we can continue this down the road and everyone has a great sales day.
Rachel: Thank you. [17:39]
by Nancy Calabrese | Jun 29, 2023 | Podcast
About Jennifer Standish: Jennifer Standish is the author of Permission Granted: Live Your Life Full of Joy and Peace, a book in which she shares 91 self-limiting beliefs that, as a result of being raised by a narcissistic mother and an enabling father, she learned growing up and realized as an adult that she needed to change to be happy. She is also the Founder and President of Give Yourself Permission, which helps women create new rules for their lives, so they can overcome limiting attitudes that prevent them from achieving career success and finding happiness. Before becoming a transformational coach, she founded Prospecting Works, a successful business that assists salespeople in overcoming cold-call reluctance. Check out the latest episode of our Conversational Selling podcast to learn more about Jennifer.
In this episode, Nancy and Jennifer discuss the following:
- Cold Calling: why people hate making and receiving cold calls.
- Being a step ahead in the conversation weaponed with a script.
- Jennifer’s authentic warm and fuzzy approach to cold calling.
- How mental discipline helps overcome NO and move forward to Yes.
- Why people drift from the best practices to where they are most comfortable?
- How you say is sometimes more important than What you say.
- Start your conversation with honesty and it’ll reward you with an appointment.
- Tips on contacting C-suite executives and remaining confident.
Key Takeaways:
- If you’re calling the right people and have a great delivery and a reasonable script they’re going to take your call and you’re going to get an appointment.
- You must believe in what you’re calling about to your core, and you must believe that you’re helping people.
- NO is not a forever NO. Moreover, it is never personal.
- Cold calling can actually be fun, and you can enjoy it!
“Let’s look at it like it’s a Hollywood script. Actors are memorizing scripts and they memorize them to the degree that when they speak to them, it sounds authentic. That’s what you need to do. You maintain control of the conversation because over time it becomes very predictable what people are going to say. Stick to the same script. Don’t reinvent it every single call. Say the same thing over and over again. And you’ll be able to predict what people say in response, and then you’ll be able to then craft your responses accordingly. So, it really makes your life so much easier if you know what you’re going to say ahead of time.” – JENNIFER
“Your delivery I think is 80% of it. If you’re confident and you believe in what you’re saying, even with a mediocre script, you’re still going to schedule appointments. You have somebody with a very weak delivery and an amazing script, that person’s not going to have any success because, in cold calling, our voice communicates so much more than the words that we’re saying. And so, when you don’t have a face and you don’t have facial inspections and body language, all those little nuances in somebody’s voice become incredibly important. And so, people follow confidence.” – JENNIFER
“So be confident in what you’re communicating and realize that you’re really only selling the meeting. You’re not selling a $3 million insurance policy, right? You’re just selling the meeting. You’re just asking for an introduction. And if you approach this with confidence, I mean, young, eager people, whether you’re a financial advisor or you’re a commercial insurance or whatever, where age might be seen as an advantage. You know, people still follow confidence and people will work with a young producer who’s eager in building a book because they know they’re going to get outstanding client service. So, I say, call, ask for the appointment. It’s an introductory call. You’re not asking them to like hand you a ton of money. You’re just asking for time.” – JENNIFER
Connect with Jennifer Standish:
Try Our Proven, 3-Step System, Guaranteeing Accountability and Transparency that Drives RESULTS by clicking on this link: https://oneofakindsales.com/call-center-in-a-box/
Connect with Nancy Calabrese:
Voiceover: You’re listening to The Conversational Selling Podcast with Nancy Calabrese.
Nancy Calabrese: Hi everyone, it’s Nancy Calabrese and it’s time again for Conversational Selling, the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today and it always starts with the human conversation. Today we’re speaking with Jennifer Standish, a transformation coach with a strong background in cold calling and helping salespeople overcome call reluctance. In fact, she was the president of Prospecting Works, a cold -calling consultancy that designed outbound calling programs for clients. Her warm and fuzzy approach to cold calling is extremely effective and appeals to women, introverts, and those who don’t want to appear salesy. And in addition, Jennifer helps women in corporate America get the… formal and financial recognition they deserve by overcoming self-limiting beliefs, building confidence, reducing fear and anxiety, changing their image in the eyes of management, advocating for themselves, and finally, transforming their relationship and communication skills. Now this is a topic so close to my heart, everyone. Welcome to the show, Jennifer. Let’s get started. [1:33]
Jennifer Standish: Yes, absolutely, this is going to be great.
Nancy Calabrese: So, you know, obviously the question to start with is, why do so many people hate cold calling? What’s your opinion on that?
Jennifer Standish: Well, it depends. Are you asking about the people who are receiving the cold calls or are you asking about the people who are making them?
Nancy Calabrese: Great question! I would say both.
Jennifer Standish: Because yes. So, the people that don’t like making cold calls, what I have found in working in the cold calling arena for 20-30 years is that call reluctance stems from self-limiting beliefs regarding what we were taught as children, that we are not to interrupt, we are not to be a pest, we need to be “don’t speak until spoken to”. So, it’s a lot of really childhood foundational rules that get in the way. And many times, my clients, when I give them permission to call a business during business hours to discuss business, very often that’s all they need. Because it’s like, this is how business gets done, you know, is by calling and having conversations. So, you’re allowed to do this. Now the people who are receiving the cold calls, the reason why they don’t like the cold calls is because the cold callers most often are not doing their homework. And they’re just calling too many people, they’re not focused. I always tell people, if you’re calling the right people and have a great delivery and, you know, a reasonable script they’re going to take their call and you’re going to get an appointment. But most people aren’t calling with integrity and they’re calling way too many people and what they’re saying is something generic and so they are annoying. [3:20]
Nancy Calabrese: Well, you know, it’s funny. We very much believe in scripting and or talk tracks. Some people don’t like the word scripts, but by having a script, what you’re doing is you’re honing your skills each and every time you make the call so that you don’t sound scripted, and you sound different and professional. What are your thoughts on that?
Jennifer Standish: I agree. I say, let’s look at it like, you know, it’s a Hollywood script. I mean, actors are memorizing scripts and they memorize them to the degree that when they speak to them, it sounds authentic. That’s what you need to do. And what it helps is, but you maintain the control of the conversation because you know that over time, you know, it’s very predictable what people are going to say. Stick to the same script. Don’t reinvent it every single call. Say the same thing over and over again. And you’ll be able to predict what people say in response, and then you’ll be able to then craft your responses accordingly. So, it really makes your life so much easier if you know what you’re going to say ahead of time. [4:33]
Nancy Calabrese: You know, it’s so funny you say that every time I onboard a new employee, I use that example of an actor or an actress who is your favorite one. And now you’re becoming that person. You’re just handed a script that you’re going to have to study to give the performance. And, and I think it’s a good way for them to understand, you know, the value and the benefit of the script. Okay, so another thing I wanted to talk to you about is you said you have a warm and fuzzy approach to cold calling. What is that?
Jennifer Standish: So, my approach is based on authenticity. You must believe in what you’re calling about to your core, and you must believe that you’re helping people. Then you must have integrity. You’ve got to really do your homework and make sure that you’re calling only your very, very, very best prospects. You’re not calling everyone under the sun. You’re approaching it from a willingness to help. You’re not approaching it to sell anything. And I only set or what I teach is introductory appointments because it lowers the barriers. If you’re calling and you are implying that you’re going to ask them to make a business decision, well then, the walls go up and say, well, the person is like, I’m not prepared to make a business decision. But it’s so much easier if you just say, I just want a simple introduce myself. So that way, sometime down the line, you may need me or… you may be in a bind, and you need a backup resource. So, you know, that to me is, considering what else is out there, all the other approaches to me, it is very warm and fuzzy. [6:23]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. You know, again, I think that when I think of warm and fuzzy, one thing that we do each and every week is we train and we recognize that this is a NO business, and we never take it personally, right? You just got to keep going and keep going. And ultimately, you’re going to get to that YES.
Jennifer Standish: Yes, absolutely. And even the NOes eventually do come around. There was somebody on LinkedIn who works for a cold calling software company, and they said that they did a study about all the times that it was either a neutral response or a negative response. And when you followed up with those people, there was just like this huge uptick in engagement. And it was like, because when you hear No, it’s really “no, not now”. It’s not NO forever. And so, it is never personal. And this is the thing that happens with cold callers who don’t have control over their own thoughts is when we’re calling people and we’re getting lots of voicemails and we’re not hearing back, it’s so easy to fill in the blanks. You know, oh, they’re not interested. They don’t want to hear from me. But you have to have a lot of mental discipline and not fill in the blanks because you really don’t know why they’re not calling you back. And they may be interested at some point, but now is not the time. So, you just move on. [7:57]
Nancy Calabrese: Huh. You mentioned earlier also, you believe that cold calling training doesn’t stick. Why does that happen? Or some of it doesn’t stick.
Jennifer Standish: Some of it doesn’t, well, I think that there’s drift and people, they will always drift to where they are most comfortable, which is why ongoing training, you can never stop and you always must bring people back to best practices, back to their script. There was somebody that I was working with recently who, I don’t know why he did this, but it was, he, he said, and I work for, and then he named the company. And I don’t know why he needed that little phrase, but it was near impossible to get him to stop saying it. And he would do well for, you know, a couple days and then he would drift back. And so, I think that it’s just human nature that we go to where we’re most comfortable and people will drift away from best practices or the scripts that they’ve been given. [9:08]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, you know, every time I think about picking up the phone, I think about an opportunity to build a relationship, right? Communication is so critical in sales and using in our world, using our voice and having the right mindset, you know, gives us an advantage, right? We become those actors. Why? would say our voices and our mindset be even more important than the script.
Jennifer Standish: Well, delivery, your delivery I think is 80% of it. If you’re confident and you believe in what you’re saying, even with a mediocre script, you’re still going to set schedule appointments. You have somebody with a very weak delivery and an amazing script, that person’s not going to have any success because in cold calling, our voice communicates so much more than the words that we’re saying. Right? And so, people, when you don’t have a face and you don’t have facial inspections and body language, all those little nuances in somebody’s voice become incredibly important. And so, people follow confidence. If you… I one time was years and years and years ago, I was calling and setting appointments for bank executives. Somebody picked up the phone. I wasn’t expecting them to pick up the phone. And I don’t know why I said, but I was like, we’re a great bank. And it was ridiculous. It was like, I’m like, oh my God, I can’t believe. But he scheduled the appointment and he’s like, I want to meet with a great bank. And he told the banker, I don’t know who you had calling for you, but she was amazing. Now I look at that as like, oh no, that was a mistake. I shouldn’t have said it, but it was said with such honesty. And confident, right? And so delivery is always going to be the biggest thing. You have to have the right place. [11:14]
Nancy Calabrese: You know, several of my people will say right up front, you know, this is a cold call, and if you’d like to hang up on me, I understand. And they almost invariably say, no, no, no, no, go on. They appreciate the humor and the honesty.
Jennifer Standish: Yes. Oh, absolutely. There’s also a technique where people will say, hey, can I just grab a couple seconds to tell you why I’m calling and then you can decide how we proceed. It’s almost like it’s asking for permission. And for a lot of people that have call reluctance, that’s a nice way to go because once you receive permission to talk, then the anxiety lessens and then you’re like, okay, well now I’ve got 20, 30 seconds to say what I want to say and they’re listening.
Nancy Calabrese: We chatted before our podcast about executives and how C-suite executives will take cold calls, right?
Jennifer Standish: Yes. [12:08]
Nancy Calabrese: And a lot of people, I guess, have the call reluctance to speak to them. What advice do you give to those that may be intimidated by contacting a C-suite executive?
Jennifer Standish: So, if they’re intimidated, and this also, this often happens in commercial insurance, where you’ve got a young commercial insurance producer and they’re calling Presidents or CEOs of big companies, and they’re inevitably, the people who they’re calling are their father’s age or their grandfather’s age. And so, they feel like they don’t have the authority. And so, I tell people, I was like, listen, you do this day in and day out. You know more about your business than these Presidents and CEOs do because they don’t do it all day long. They run their business. [12:54]
Nancy Calabrese: Right.
Jennifer Standish: So be confident in what you’re communicating. Realize that you’re really only selling the meeting. You’re not selling a $3 million insurance policy, right? You’re just selling the meeting. You’re just asking for an introduction. And if you approach this with confidence, I mean, young, eager people, whether you’re a financial advisor or you’re a commercial insurance or whatever, where age might be seen as an advantage. You know, people still follow confidence and people will work with a young producer who’s eager in building a book because they know they’re going to get outstanding client service. So, I say, call, ask for the appointment. It’s an introductory call. You’re not asking them to like hand you a ton of money. You’re just asking for time.
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. Another thing that we pay attention to, and perhaps some salespeople aren’t aware of this, but the purpose of a cold call is to schedule the appointment, not to go into cell mode. What do you have to say about that? [14:00]
Jennifer Standish: I agree 100%. And that it’s really, you’re trying to get an appointment, you’re not trying to sell. You’re not trying to close any deals. That’s not what this is about. And I think the people who do approach it that way, where they’ll say, you don’t want to explore the opportunity of working together, want to see if you have any needs that we can help. It’s like, oh, you are just, you’re burdening your call with so much. Like, no, back yourself up. And just make it an introduction before the end of the appointment. Then when you have the appointment, then you build rapport, and then you are given the permission to sell. But in a cold call, you don’t have permission to sell.
Nancy Calabrese: Right. Why, I think simply, Jennifer, if you go into cell mode in a first-time conversation, you really don’t have an opportunity to do the research and properly prepare for a lengthier discussion. Would you agree with that?
Jennifer Standish: I would, oh, absolutely, absolutely. A lot of times my students will ask, well, what if they’re available right then and there? And I was like, okay, well, unless you’re calling truckers or people who are on the road in, you know, can’t hold, I always, always say, you know, now is not a really good time for me. I don’t have enough time to do this. Let’s schedule at a later date so that you do have the appropriate. Do the research. You really, and I also, when I’m in a cold calling mode, I just want to make calls. I don’t want to then switch modes and have an in-depth conversation with somebody. I’m not prepared. So, you’re doing yourself a disservice as well as the prospect of disservice. [15:43]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. What would be your recommendation to everyone listening? How many calls should they make or how much time should they spend in cold call prospecting every day?
Jennifer Standish: It really depends on where you are in your business. If you’re a new business, 80% of your time should be spent setting a point. But if you are in a mature business where you’ve got a lot of repeat clients, a repeat business, you probably don’t have to be prospecting as much. But I think it depends really on the industry and where you are.
Nancy Calabrese: So tell me something that you know is true that almost nobody agrees with you on.
Jennifer Standish: That cold calling can actually be fun, and you can enjoy it. And you can enjoy it. And I’ve had great conversations with people, and I’ve become good friends with people who have cold called me and, or I have cold called. And so, I tell everyone, take every single cold call that comes your way. I wrote an article year ago about like the seven reasons why an executive should take a cold call. A lot of it has to do with, nobody else is qualified to vet that call other than you. A lot of it has to do with karma. If your people are cold calling, well then you want your prospects to take calls, then you should take all the calls that come to you.
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah.
Jennifer Standish: I also think you never really know who’s on the other end and it could be somebody that could transform your business. [17:23]
Nancy Calabrese: It’s all relationship building, you know? And I’m looking and we’re almost up with time, but I had a call today with a gentleman who was contacted by one of my people. And I had spoken with him a couple of years ago and long story short, we’re speaking again next week. And he was very complimentary of my caller. Now there’s nothing like hearing that, in this business, right?
Jennifer Standish: Yes, and I will tell you.
Nancy Calabrese: There’s so much churn and burn and you need to just approach it, I think, with the smile on your face, the level of confidence that you speak of, and the rest will come into play.
Jennifer Standish: I time and time again, I tell people, people thank me for calling them. People thank me for reaching out. Thank you for thinking of me. I really appreciate it. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard that from a prospect. [18:23]
Nancy Calabrese: It’s rewarding.
Jennifer Standish: It is. It is. It’s an amazing reward.
Nancy Calabrese: So, listen, how can my people find you?
Jennifer Standish: LinkedIn is the best place to get me. Um, I have all my contact information. I even give you my phone number and I encourage people to call because I take all the calls. But LinkedIn, Jennifer Standish, I’m right there. You’ll, you know, reach out, schedule a meeting. Um, I work with companies. I design outbound calling programs. I work with individuals. Uh, I am a leadership.
Nancy Calabrese: All right.
Jennifer Standish: Career coach.
Nancy Calabrese: Well, you know, every first of all, Jennifer, I really enjoyed having the opportunity to speak with you. You’re some friendly competition. And I suggest strongly if you like what Jennifer had to say, reach out to her. She’s a fascinating lady. We didn’t even get into some of her interesting stories. And I hope that you’ll come back on the show sometime soon.
Jennifer Standish: I’d be delighted. I’d be delighted.
Nancy Calabrese: Okay, everyone make it a great sales day and when you’re done listening to this, pick up the phone. See you next time. [19:34]
by Marta Malyk | Mar 20, 2023 | Podcast
About Kevin Hopp: Kevin Hopp is a Founder of Hopp Consulting Group. Kevin is an expert in outbound sales development for B2B SaaS companies. He has worked with over 50 organizations, crafting outbound campaigns that have generated tens of millions of dollars in revenue for some of Silicon Valley’s fastest-growing companies. Kevin shares his top tips to win at cold calling, including having a script and following up. Check out the latest episode of our Conversational Selling podcast to learn more about Kevin.
In this episode, Nancy and Kevin discuss:
- Why does Cold Calling get such a bad rep?
- Why does training and having a well-structured system matter in sales?
- VM World – How long does Kevin pursue a prospect until moving to another one? How many attempts does he make?
- How to set a qualified appointment without cell mode?
- Kevin’s thoughts on the consultative discussion in setting appointments.
- Fun fact about Kevin – 3 thumbs!
Key Takeaways:
- Nobody likes to be sold. Everybody likes to buy things.
- If you think cold calling is dead, you’re just not doing it the right way.
- I believe passionately that if you get good at the systems and processes that make sales development people more efficient, you will enjoy your job more.
“Many salespeople, as you and I both know, are kind of unprepared to have a conversation with a live prospect at any given moment, and because they’re unprepared. They’re scared of it. They’re really scared of cold calling. They’re scared of what might happen. They’re scared of getting told I’m not interested and getting hung up on. And they don’t have a structure or a process. I’ve gotten so obsessed and so passionate about Cold Calling because I was an entry-level sales. Though that had to just cold call all day, and I had the pit of my stomach feeling every time before I pick up the phone. So I’ve dedicated, the beginning of my career here for the first 9-10 years just becoming as good as I could possibly be at having sales conversations.” – KEVIN HOPP
Connect with Kevin Hopp:
Try Our Proven, 3-Step System, Guaranteeing Accountability and Transparency that Drives RESULTS by clicking on this link: https://oneofakindsales.com/call-center-in-a-box/
Connect with Nancy Calabrese:
by Marta Malyk | Feb 15, 2022 | Cold Calling, Cold Calling Success
I will let you in on a little secret. Do you know what everybody needs to know about cold calling? It’s that CONFIDENCE is a key component of successful Cold Calling!
What everybody needs to know about cold calling
I have mentioned before that you can’t bluster your way through a sales call. Prospects can smell the BS a mile away (through a phone, email or text) and that will prematurely end your chances of ever making a real sale. But they can also detect CONFIDENCE and that leads to TRUST, appointments and sales.
According to Close.com, “93% of the potential success of your cold call is attributed to the tone of your voice during the conversation.” (1) This makes sense – on a cold call, all a prospect has to go by is your voice and delivery.
In an Inc article on ‘How Customers Decide to Buy’ they stated, “In a cold call, the customer makes the first decision based upon the tone and confidence in the caller’s voice.” (2) I would venture to say that subsequent decisions won’t be needed if that first decision isn’t positive!
CLICK TO TWEET
But wait, I don’t FEEL confident
Many salespeople do NOT feel confident when Cold Calling. Especially if they have had some negative experiences or worse yet, they have never been trained.
Can I just ‘Fake it Till I Make it’?
No, this is not a good plan.
OK, so how do I become more confident?
There are many facets to confidence but we find that being properly prepared instills a level of confidence in our people that you can hear in their tone and delivery.
Get the proper training
Too many salespeople are handed a phone and a list of numbers and let loose to make calls. Most of them fail miserably and then blame the tactic (Cold Calling) when in fact it was their lack of training which caused the poor results.
Click here to read more about our proprietary sales prospecting training programs that prepare YOU to succeed in sales!
Get a tune-up
If you have been a salesperson for any length of time, you know that some skills are timeless (how to engage someone in conversation) and others expire (how to send a fax). Ongoing sales training is a vital part of keeping you on the top of your game. Our sales prospecting program Call Center in a Box, provides training as well as mentoring and modeling to not only show you how to do it correctly but to help you internalize the skills, so you exude confidence on YOUR calls. Our Close the Deal program gives you the tools you need to engage confidently with prospects and, as the title says, Close the Deal!
Check out this post for more on the importance of ongoing sales training.
Practice, practice, practice
As is true in almost any area of life, practice will drive improvement.
Get feedback
Find someone who will monitor your calls and give you honest feedback. In our programs we review calls, discuss what worked and didn’t work and then provide them with skill training they need. We also do role playing exercises, allowing them to practice and polish their skills, before they need to engage with actual prospects.
Mindset plays a big role
In addition to being properly prepared, you need to stay optimistic. This can be a challenge in our industry but it really does improve outcomes.
Click here to read more about how optimism increases sales.
Be prepared
And yes, it takes more than just speaking skills to carry you through a call. Click here for more on how to prepare yourself for Cold Calling success.
Pick up that phone
So, make a plan and execute it daily. Prepare yourself and practice. Then pick up that phone and start dialing.
If you need help with the plan, the skills or the practice, give us a call at 908.879.2911 – we can help YOU build the confidence YOU need to succeed in the new year!
Good luck and best wishes for a prosperous new year!
by Marta Malyk | Oct 12, 2021 | Uncategorized
I have noticed that many salespeople are quick to spend an exorbitant amount of time and money on live events, claiming that they offer networking opportunities that they cannot afford to miss. That time and money would be better spent on Cold Calling. Cold Calling IS networking!
When done correctly, Cold Calling provides all the benefits of networking at a much lower cost and in a shorter time frame.
Cold Calling vs Networking
Here are some of the most important reasons to network professionally:
- To build and nurture your professional network
- To stay visible and top of mind with your community
- To stay on top of industry news and advancements
- To help others and build good will
Cold Calling provides the opportunity to do all of these, and more!
- Cold Calling helps build and nurture your professional network. When making Cold Calls, you are introduced to new people and have the opportunity to touch base with older contacts. And since you are speaking with them, one on one over the phone, instead of across a table with numerous others – some of whom may be competitors – I would argue that the conversations you have during a Cold Call are more advantageous.
But the key word there is ‘CONVERSATIONS’ – when done correctly, a Cold Call is a conversation!
- Cold Calling helps you stay visible and top of mind with your community. Again, when Cold Calling, you are ‘touching’ the prospect – even if it is only to leave a voicemail. These ‘touches’ help establish a sense of trust and by maintaining a regular delivery cadence, you will stay top of mind.
- Cold Calling helps you stay on top of industry news and advancements. While you may not be gaining information from your prospects, a good salesperson will be sure to stay on top of industry news in order to be able to provide that on calls if needed. Cold Calling incentivizes salespeople to be in the know!
- Cold Calls provide opportunities to help others and build good will. A good salesperson will be listening, on a Cold Call, for problems they can solve. If they cannot provide an appropriate solution, they will offer a referral. This not only helps the prospect but serves to build good will.
How much time should you spend networking?
According to Dr. Ivan Misner, the founder of BNI (Business Network International, which claims to be the largest business networking organization in the world) people should spend 8 – 10 hours per week networking. To achieve this by attending networking events, you need to then add the commute time, factor in the costs of the event and the lousy coffee and hope that your target audience will be there.
Yes, attending some live networking events can be helpful but I say, cut to the chase! Pick up the phone and make a call. And start thinking of your Cold Calling time as ‘networking’ – making and building new connections. I bet this shift in mindset will you’re your calls become more conversational and productive. Let me know how it goes!
Do you need help shifting your mindset out of ‘selling’ mode and into ‘conversation’ mode? Check out our Call Center in a Box program where we train you and your team in our time-proven Conversational Selling technique. OUR SALES TRAINING gets YOUR people delivering real results!
