by Nancy Calabrese | Sep 25, 2024 | Podcast
About Drewbie Wilson: Drewbie Wilson is the Founder of Call The Damn Leads, where he empowers sales professionals through innovative tools like an e-commerce platform, a robust CRM, and educational resources designed to maximize success. Drewbie is a mindset and sales expert dedicated to helping individuals and businesses unlock their full potential. With a focus on personal growth and proven strategies, he has empowered countless clients to achieve remarkable success. Through his books “Crushing The Day” and “Social Media Mastery,” Drewbie shares insights on overcoming limiting beliefs, implementing effective sales systems, and mastering marketing techniques. Check out the latest episode of our Conversational Selling podcast to learn more about Drewbie.
In this episode, Nancy and Drewbie discuss the following:
- Description of the “call the damn leads” approach
- Why people avoid picking up the phone and calling the leads
- How to crush the day by calling the damn leads and create a version of success that makes them happy
- The number of leads that should be called daily and the importance of tracking metrics
- The importance of understanding the value of your time and using it wisely
- Drewbie’s advice to someone just starting in sales to overcome their fears
Key Takeaways:
- Everything in life has always come back to sales, for me personally.
- The one thing that I can always count on to get me a result in sales is to pick up the phone and call the damn leads.
- Sales is not always the most fun job, as there are many rejections and a lot of work.
- People want to do business with people. They don’t want to deal with robots.
- You have to keep filling the pipeline because if you go and harvest everything without putting anything new in the dirt, there will be nothing to harvest a little bit later.
“I like to take it one step further and look at it as I’m a servant first. We don’t have to get too into the religion or spiritual side of things. But ultimately, I look at myself on this planet as a servant first. And so, I’m going into every conversation looking at how I can serve this individual and leave them better off than when I entered this situation, whether helping them with a product or service or sharing some wisdom or knowledge. And to me, I think that’s a big differentiator; when you can get into a service-first mindset, you’re not calling to sell someone. You’re just calling to help. And it feels less transactional. And that’s where you can build relationships. And I’m sure you’ve talked about this before, but people buy from people they know, like, and trust. And I think that trust comes from the ability to communicate, “Hey, I understand you, and I want to help you,” because that’s why people do business with anyone. They want to get out of pain or get into pleasure. And so, if you can help to be the conduit for that situation, then the transaction is easy to occur.” – DREWBIE
“So, I started thinking about time, where I’m spending it, and what I’m spending it on, which led me to understand that I get to choose my own work. I get to pick how much my time is worth, where I spend it, and where I invest it. The difference is I must have the skillset and the confidence to show up and deliver that to someone else who’s going to be willing to pay me for my skillset, for my time, because time is our one true resource. You cannot buy it. You cannot win it in a poker tournament, as much as we’d love to get a box on Christmas or a card on our birthday. It never goes that way. So, that conversation sent me down a path of realizing that I get to decide what I do daily. And I get to decide where I spend my time, who I spend it with, and what I spend it on to know the kind of return I will get on that investment. As a sales professional, we aim to help prospects understand that the value of what they will receive far exceeds the price they will pay. So, when you can have that conversation with yourself about your time, it’s amazing what you can truly start to accomplish.” – DREWBIE
“Know what your time is truly worth. At the end of the day, that is the one thing I can encourage anyone to take stock of. What is your time worth now? And what would you need it to be worth to live the life that you want to live? It’s a matter of increasing your skill set or spending more time working doing what you do great. That’s it. It’s always a matter of what your time is worth. Where are you spending it? What are you spending it on? And who are you spending it with? Because that’s what’s going to end up being the recipe for the life that you get to live.” – DREWBIE
Connect with Drewbie Wilson:
Try Our Proven, 3-Step System, Guaranteeing Accountability and Transparency that Drives RESULTS by clicking on this link: https://oneofakindsales.com/call-center-in-a-box/
Connect with Nancy Calabrese:
Voiceover: You’re listening to The Conversational Selling Podcast with Nancy Calabrese.
Nancy Calabrese: Hi, it’s Nancy Calabrese, and it’s time again for Conversational selling – the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today. And it always starts with the human conversation. Today we’re speaking with Drewbie Wilson, the meme lord, the renowned branding expert and creator of the revolutionary call the damn leads approach and action. A taker with his finger on the pulse who focuses on service to others above all else, leading him to produce more than seven figures in revenue, no matter what industry he’s worked in. Not one to turn away from a challenge, he looks to get out of his comfort zone as much as possible. A servant first, operating with the utmost integrity and humility, but not afraid to tell it like it is. Confidence and empathy are his superpowers. Welcome to the show, Drewby. I’m going to love this conversation.
Drewbie Wilson: Nancy, thank you so much for having me and to the listener. Thank you for being here with us. I am grateful you’re investing a little bit of your time to be here with us today. And you’ll hear me talk a lot about that time is our most valuable asset. So, I’m excited to be spending a little bit of it with you here today, Nancy. [1:31]
Nancy Calabrese: Awesome, awesome, awesome. Okay, call the damn leads approach. What is that about?
Drewbie Wilson: Well, it’s really a mantra for doing the work. I have been in sales for a little over two decades now. I’m coming up on my 36th birthday and I grew up in the streets selling anything and everything. As I got older, realized I didn’t want to be dead or in prison. You know, I got married, had a beautiful young son. Everything in life has always come back to sales for me personally. And the one thing that I can always count on to get me a result in sales is to pick up the phone and call the damn leads. And so ultimately for me, it’s, it’s kind of extended into many areas of my life, personally and professionally, but it is, it’s just a mantra for doing the dag gum work. And that’s what a lot of people are avoiding, unfortunately. So, I just like to shoot them straight and tell them what it’s going to take. [2:31]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. Why do you think people avoid that?
Drewbie Wilson: Well, we could get into a couple different theories I have but first and foremost I think people are afraid of rejection which is one thing that prevents someone from picking up the phone and calling leads I think there are situations where someone is selling a product or service that they don’t 100 % believe in or trust which is hard because if you have to sell something to someone that you don’t believe in, there’s no confidence. And honestly, without confidence, it’s hard to deliver that enthusiasm or get someone else to have that faith and belief in it. And so, you know, on top of that, there’s something I think there’s that’s called imposter syndrome. You may or may not have heard that term before, but it’s that idea or feeling where, you know, you’re afraid to step up in front of someone or have a conversation because you don’t know everything. You know, we could go deep on how to me that’s a theory of integrity. But ultimately, I think the biggest thing is people get in their own way. [3:34]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, you know, when I think about picking up the phone and calling the leads, I think of it as phone networking versus face -to -face networking. And, you know, when you go to a networking event, you’re really meeting strangers, right? Shaking their hands, but you don’t know them. And picking up the phone is the same concept. You may not know them if it’s, say, a cold call or a lead that somebody gave you, but it’s a form of introduction. What do you have to say about that?
Drewbie Wilson: I like to take it one step further and look at it as I’m a servant first. You know, we don’t have to get too into the religion or spiritual side of things. But ultimately, I look at myself on this planet as a servant first. And so, I’m going into every conversation, looking at how can I serve this individual and leave them better off than when I entered this situation, whether that’s helping them with a product or service, sharing some sort of wisdom or knowledge. And to me, I think that’s a big differentiator is that when you can get into a service first mindset, you’re not calling to sell someone. You’re literally just calling to help. And it feels less transactional. And that’s where you can really build relationships. And I’m sure you’ve talked about this before, but people buy from people who they know, like and trust. And I think that trust comes from the ability to communicate, hey, I understand you and I want to help you because that’s why people do business with anyone. They want to get out of pain or get into pleasure. And so, if you can help to be the conduit for that situation, then the transaction is easy to occur. [5:28]
Nancy Calabrese: So, describe to the audience how to crush the day, yes, by calling the damn leads and creating a version of success that makes them happy. How will that make them happy?
Drewbie Wilson: You know, I, well, I appreciate you asking. This is one of the things, you know, those mantras crushed the day before it crushes you called a damn lead. Again, it’s kind of a, all comes back to doing the work and what I have learned, you know, if you go and check out, I’ve written a couple of books or if you, you know, listen to some of my other podcasts that I’ve done, I talk about at one point in my life, I weighed over 300 pounds and I had to go on a really big physical weight loss journey. At one point I was very unhappy, unfulfilled in my job. So, I had to go on a personal development journey. And for me, crushing the day is where it all started to, hey, I’m going to wake up and I’m going to be intentional with my time first, because at one point in my life, and some of you may relate to this, I was very reactionary. The alarm went off, so I got up and I did the things and then something happened. So, I did the thing. And then there was another fire that I had to put out in another fire. And I was just reacting to everything that came at me instead of being proactive and intentional. And so, crushing the day is if I know I wake up on time, I read, I meditate, I focus on gratitude, and then I go do the things that I know need to be done first. That to me is crushing the day. And if I can avoid the negative news, the toxic, politish, you know, political nonsense, things that go on and, and avoid the toxicity of social media. Well, those are the things that will crush you. If you’ve ever opened up the news first thing in the morning and its bad news, bad news, bad news, maybe one small clip of a good thing, but then right back to the bad news, it’s easy to let that energy kind of just throw your whole day off. So, to crush today is really to just be intentional with your time know that you’re doing the things that are moving you forward towards the life that you want. And ultimately, that’s what’s going to create happiness because you’re going to get the result that you’re looking for. [7:39]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, well, you know, and, you know, as it relates to sales, I think it’s important to focus on the activities that you can control each and every day that will help you move the bar, right? Get closer to hitting your goals. I’m curious, is there a story the audience would find interesting? You sound like you’ve had a real interesting life so far.
Drewbie Wilson: Nancy, I could tell you about 10, 12 hours worth of stories if we had all day, but we only have about 18 to 20 minutes for the sake of time. So let me start with this. at a point in my life, like I said, I grew up in the streets running and gun and doing all the things we’re not supposed to. So, I’m very blessed to even be here to begin with. But there was a conversation I had with another Nancy, funny enough at one point where I was starting to learn marketing. I was great at sales, and I realized, hey, if I don’t learn how to generate my own leads, I’m always going to be limited by what’s provided to me. And not that I wasn’t doing okay, but as you know, good will steal from great every chance it gets. So, I decided to go out and learn marketing. And I was like, if I can just get more leads, I can sell more stuff and make more money. So that’s what I started doing. And I had a little success with that. And this wonderful woman named Nancy, she reached out to me, and she said, Hey, Drewbie I see you’re, you’re using this software that I’m also using. How much for an hour of your time to show me a few things on what you’re doing. And what a humbling question that was for me, because at the time, you know, I grew up 10 bucks an hour was kind of grunt labor. Like that’s what you made. If you didn’t have any education and you just did like hard labor, you made 10 bucks an hour in sales at the time. I think I was making 25 bucks an hour. So, I was like, you know, for a kid who barely graduated and came out of the streets, like that’s not too bad. However, if I was working overtime or on a holiday, they’d pay me double time, time and a half. So, I’m doing this set like hourly mindset math. And I realized, okay, well my time’s worth $50. And Nancy says, well, I’m gonna give you 75. I thought that’s amazing. I’ll take it, right? I’m not gonna say no to that. That’d be silly. And so we have the call. She sends me the Venmo for 75 bucks. And I remember messaging my wife and going, this is amazing. How do I do this? Like three times a day. And I would make in one day what it takes me a week to make currently. So, I started thinking about time and where I’m spending it and what I’m spending it on, which led me to understanding that I get to choose my own work. I get to pick how much my time is worth and where I spend it, where I invest it, the difference is I must have the skillset and the confidence to show up and deliver that to someone else who’s going to be willing to pay me for my skillset for my time, because time is our one true resource. You cannot buy it. You cannot win it in a poker tournament as much as we’d love to get a box of it on Christmas or a card of it on our birthday. It never goes that way. So that one conversation sent me down a path of realizing that I get to make the decisions of what I do every day. And I get to decide where I spend my time, who I spend it with and what I spend it on to know the kind of return I’m going to get on that investment. And as a sales professional, our whole goal is to help prospects understand that the value of the thing they’re going to receive far exceeds what the price they’re going to pay is. So, when you can have that conversation with yourself about your time, it’s amazing what you can truly start to accomplish. [11:39]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. Wow. That’s really awesome. Is there anything in particular you want me to spotlight about your company and what you do?
Drewbie Wilson: I mean, I think the most important about my company, you know, call the damn leads. Our whole goal is just to be a reminder for sales professionals and business owners everywhere. Listen, sales are not always the most fun job is a lot of rejection. It’s a lot of work. It’s a lot of nos, but at the same time, it’s so fulfilling. There are so many amazing things that can happen. It doesn’t matter where you come from, what background you have, if you’re willing to trust the process and do the work to call the damn leads, you can have any life that you want. And so that to me is the spotlight. It’s not about me or the company. It’s about the individual who’s listening to us today, investing their time to learn something that could help them better their life. So, to me, if you want to spotlight anyone. Spotlight the listener for investing a little of their time with us today so that they can learn and grow because they’re the next future They’re the ones that I hope to get to listen to at some point because I always want to learn as well. [12:47]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, that’s really cool. Do you have a recommendation how many leads should be called on a daily basis?
Drewbie Wilson: You know, I have a personal metric that has worked well for me for the last 10 years in like regular sales. And it’s this, I always look to make at least a hundred outbound contact attempts a day. And that could be phone calls, text messages, emails. You might send, you know, direct messages on social media, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, wherever. You might also do in -person meetups, right? But a hundred attempts every day to have a conversation. Cause out of those hundred attempts, my goal is to have 10 good conversations. That means that I’ve built rapport. I’ve gone through all of my pre -qualifying questions to determine if this person is a good fit for our product or service. And then I’ve made a, a presentation to move forward with the next step. So, it’s kind of like I’ve made an offer. Maybe I’ve sent a contract, maybe not, but we’re moving forward in the next process of those 10. I want to get two sales. And so, it may sound like a lot of Nancy, right? 110 to is like, my gosh, that’s a lot of work every day. But the truth is out of a normal month, I’m working anywhere from 20 to 22 days, right? For, you know, Monday through Friday, maybe a Saturday here and there, about 20, 22 days a month. So, during those workdays, I want to get two out of the three of those metrics on any given day. And I know that at the end of the month, it’s going to add up to success because you might make a hundred contacts and not have a lot of conversations, but you might close a couple of deals or you might have 10 good conversations and close to sales, but you don’t have a chance to go and make a hundred contact attempts. I understand time is very limited. You must have a real good conversation, it takes 20 minutes, 30 minutes, sometimes longer. So, it’s all a matter of just hitting those metrics on a consistent basis. Because if I’m doing that day after day after day, I’m planting a few seeds on this day, then I’m nurturing them, then I’m harvesting them, then I’m planting some new seeds where those were harvested, right? You’re consistently filling the pipeline. And that’s the key to long -term sales are you have to keep filling the pipeline because if you just go and harvest everything without putting anything new in the dirt, well, there’s going to be nothing to harvest a little bit later. So, it’s always about finding that balance of a hundred, ten, two, and getting two of the three of those on any given day. Hopefully that made sense. [15:37]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, wow. I mean, and do you actually track those metrics?
Drewbie Wilson: Yes, ma ‘am. If it gets measured, it can be improved. And I think that’s a thing that a lot of professionals are missing out on right now is they’re just guessing how much work they’re doing without having a solid tracking or a measurement system. And I could tell you without fail, if you woke up and got on the scale every day, you would notice whether you were doing the work or not.
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah.
Drewbie Wilson: Same thing, if you look at your bank account right now, if the number’s lower than you’d like it to be, it’s because you’re not calling the damn leads. It’s because you’re not doing the work. And so it’s always a math problem at that point. [16:16]
Nancy Calabrese: Well, tell me something that’s true that almost nobody agrees with you on.
Drewbie Wilson: I think that it’s still really important to pick up the phone and call the damn leads. I think a lot of people are saying that, well, texting is better, or emails are better. But at the end of the day, it’s easy to hide behind a keyboard and use AI and all these fancy tools that exist. But you know what’s still the bottom line? People want to do business with people. They don’t want to deal with robots. They don’t like the kiosk. They want to know there’s someone at the other end of that conversation that they can truly speak with and have a relationship with. That’s my belief. Not everybody agrees, but it is what it is. [16:59]
Nancy Calabrese: You’re not gonna replace the human conversation with all this technology out there. It’s just, it’s that exchange of information between two human beings cannot be replaced by AI and all the other things, you know, online. You know, I can’t believe we’re almost up in time. What is the one takeaway you wanna leave the audience with, Drewbie?
Drewbie Wilson: To know what your time is truly worth. At the end of the day, that is the one thing that if I can encourage anyone to truly take stock in, it’s what is your time worth now? And what would you need it to be worth to live the life that you wanna live? Because it’s a matter of increasing your skillset or spending more time working doing the thing that you do great. That’s it. It’s always a matter of what is your time worth? Where are you spending it? What are you spending it on? And who are you spending it with? Because that’s what’s going to end up being the recipe for the life that you get to live. [18:04]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, I guess now you’ve triggered another thought. How does somebody figure out what their time is worth?
Drewbie Wilson: So, it’s a math problem, like everything in life. Here’s what I always tell my clients. This is usually the first thing that we do when we start working together is take all of the money that you made last year as a total. So, your day job, if you work a W -2 job, take all of that money. If you have a side gig or you have, you know, little hustles that you do where you make a couple bucks on the side, even if you’re not reporting it, I’m not here to judge you. I’m just saying take all that and add it up because you spent the time to earn that money. Maybe you have one of those spicy websites where you share pictures of your feet or something. I don’t know. I’m not judging. Just take all the money that you made and add it up as a total. And then you want to divide that total by 2000. And here’s why. Because if you worked a typical job, Monday through Friday, nine to five, 40 hours a week, you’d work 50 weeks a year. Cause you get your two weeks of vacation time, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That would be an average individual. If you’re here with us today, you’re not average. You’re taking the time to learn and grow. So I already know you’re not average, but if you were, you’d work 2000 hours a year. So quick math, if you made a hundred grand last year and you worked 2000 hours, your time is worth $50 an hour. That may not be terrible, but here’s where I really trip you up, Nancy. Let’s say I put on a black cape, and I come knock on the door and I say, Hey, congratulations, Nancy. My name is death. You have 24 hours left to live. Your time is worth $50 an hour. Here’s 50 bucks. I need you to come with me. What are you gonna say? [19:49]
Nancy Calabrese: No way Jose!
Drewbie Wilson: I mean, I could think of several different, you know, very, very mean things that I would want to say to that person if they were me in that situation. However, here’s what I know. A lot of people are operating as if they have an unlimited amount of time. Nobody knows for sure when that their end of their clock runs out. No one can say for sure, but everyone still runs around and says, I’ll do that later; I’ll do that thing when; I’ll take that trip after. But how you know for sure you’re going to get there. And so, the thing that’s interesting to me is that at a certain number though, you’re going to be willing to exchange that hour because you realize money is a tool, is a resource that we use to get the things that we want in life, to share the things that we want with the people we care about. So, you just must determine what is that number for me that I’m willing to exchange my time for. And if it isn’t like the monetary dollar amount, what does the exchange have to be for me? Like, what do I have to get out of that time invested for it to be worth it to me? Because maybe your time is invested with your friends, with your family, at church, doing good for the homeless, whatever it is that brings you joy, I encourage you to do that. But know, what is your time worth and what’s the return on the investment that you’re getting for it? [21:12]
Nancy Calabrese: Wow, powerful stuff. How can my people find you?
Drewbie Wilson: The best way to find me, you can go to calledadamleeds .com. You can just Google call the damn leads. We’re on every social media platform that you could find us on, whether that’s Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, I hit all the major places. So, wherever you like to hang out, go to call the damn leads. You’ll find us. We’re there. We’re always giving away tons of valuable content for sales professionals. And more than anything, if there’s something you heard today that you got value out of, I’d love to hear about it 30 days from now and see how it’s truly affected your life by implementing because that’s the most important part. You can hear it. You can think it’s awesome, but if you don’t take action on it, unfortunately you won’t get the results. So let me be the reminder for you that if you heard something great, the first thing you should do is go take action and review this episode for Nancy and let everybody know that you appreciated her taking the time, energy and effort to make this show possible because as a host myself, Nancy, I appreciate that you go above and beyond to share your time and your resources. So, if anyone got anything of value, do me that favor first, go follow Nancy and share the show because that’s what’s going to help us get in front of more great people. [22:29]
Nancy Calabrese: Love it, love it. Drewbie, you are fantastic. And actually, I want to be on your podcast. I went on your website. So, I sent you a note earlier. Folks, reach out to Drewbie. He’s an expert. I love Call the Damn Leads. We have a lot in common. So, for all of you people out there, pick up that phone and make it a great sales day. [22:55]
by Nancy Calabrese | Sep 26, 2023 | Podcast
About Rachel Cossar: Rachel Cossar is a leader in the field of nonverbal communication and leadership presence facilitation. As a former nationally ranked athlete and professional ballet dancer, Rachel has a knack of translating unique skills into relatable business skills and competencies. Virtual Sapiens comes as an evolution of Rachel’s combined work as founder of Choreography for Business, a nonverbal communication consulting firm as well as a faculty member with Mobius Executive Leadership and as a leadership presence facilitator with Ariel Group. Rachel has worked with leaders from GE, BCG, Pfizer, Accenture, McKinsey, HBS and more. With the increased dependency of video events as a way to connect and drive impact across organizations, Rachel and her team at Virtual Sapiens are excited to open up a world of access when it comes to one of the most human, and most important skills in business – communication. Check out the latest episode of our Conversational Selling podcast to learn more about Rachel.
In this episode, Nancy and Rachel discuss the following:
- Importance of self-reinvention.
- Mistakes that sellers make when they’re on video.
- The significance of video call backgrounds.
- The role of the background in the world of remote jobs.
- Non-verbal cues and behaviors that need to be mastered to be an effective communicator.
- Hand gesture etiquette on remote meetings.
- The hacks with lens and seat cushion and their role in making an impression.
- Rachel’s way to success.
Key Takeaways:
- There are transitions and changes around us all the time, whether we realize it or not.
- In the sales process, it’s more than making the sale, it’s about building the relationship and the rapport.
- The background speaks volumes about choices you’ve made or not made when you’ve decided to show up on video with the other person.
- Using hand gestures is a wonderful tool to create a sense of openness, warmth, of invitation.
- The importance of developing a new sense of muscle memory around the way we express ourselves on a screen.
“You know, I think a lot of us felt that or experienced that at some point during the pandemic and there tends to be, of course, fear around change and transition, but sometimes I find people turn to wherever they’re going next and forget where they came from.And so, in my experience, the process of reinventing myself, which I’ve done so many times, is always on the shoulders of these past identities I’ve had. And I think that concept is really fascinating and powerful.” – RACHEL
“Some of the top cues and behaviors that need to be mastered to be an effective communicator are posture, where you’re looking, how you use your eyes when you’re speaking, and as a listener. The way you use your hands and facial expressions. Those would be some of the top four non-verbal categories to be aware of. And on video, of course, all of them are very present. The one thing I’ll say as a caveat on video is the way you frame yourself is critical because if you are going to have your lens positioned such that we can only see the very top of your head, or we can’t see your face because you’re looking at a different screen and your lens is somewhere else like those are things that are just from the get-go, very detrimental to your presence because you’ve ruined the human connection that we can take advantage of on video.” – RACHEL
“Using hand gestures is a wonderful tool to create a sense of openness, warmth, of invitation. It helps people trust you more because they know that you are present with them, that you’re not fiddling around with some unseen phone or tablet or… animal or whatever, right? People like to see open-palm hand gestures. It’s very soothing. It’s very reassuring. So that’s number one. On the other end of the spectrum though, some people over-rely on hand gestures to communicate. And when the hand gestures are kind of waving around nonsensically and there’s not an intentional connection between the way hand gestures are being used and the words that are being communicated, hand gestures, in that case, can be distracting. So yeah, I mean, it’s all about, and then there’s like different types of when you’re touching your face with your hands, that can signal stress and anxiety and discomfort. And so, the way, what it really comes down to is developing a hand gesture vocabulary that supports the message you’re trying to send.” – RACHEL
Connect with Rachel Cossar:
Try Our Proven, 3-Step System, Guaranteeing Accountability and Transparency that Drives RESULTS by clicking on this link: https://oneofakindsales.com/call-center-in-a-box/
Connect with Nancy Calabrese:
Voiceover: You’re listening to The Conversational Selling Podcast with Nancy Calabrese.
Nancy Calabrese: Hi everyone, it’s Nancy Calabrese, and it’s time again for Conversational Selling, the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today, and it always starts with the human conversation. Today we’re speaking with Rachel Cossar, the CEO and co-founder of Virtual Sapiens, a machine learning SaaS platform that helps client-facing professionals develop and amplify their communication skills and presence in a virtual world. As a former professional ballet dancer and gymnast with unparalleled expertise in nonverbal communication and live performance, Rachel has a knack for translating unique skills into relatable business skills and competencies. Her thought leadership has been featured on the TEDx Northeastern stage, Harvard Business Review and the Boston Globe to name a few. And she’s worked with leaders such as G.E.M. Pfizer. Welcome to the show, Rachel. This is gonna be a great discussion. [1:18]
Rachel: Thank you, Nancy, for having me.
Nancy Calabrese: Oh, my goodness. So, you talk a lot about reinvention. Why is that so important for all of us?
Rachel: Reinvention, it’s interesting. I find transitions and changes around us all the time, whether we realize it or not, but I also find that everyone is at some point in their lives, or maybe multiple times in their lives is going to have to face a pretty big transition. You know, I think a lot of us felt that or experienced that at some point during the pandemic and there tends to be, of course, fear around change and transition, but sometimes I find people turn to wherever they’re going next and forget where they came from. And so, in my experience, the process of reinventing myself, which I’ve done so many times, is always on the shoulders of these past identities I’ve had. And I think that concept is really fascinating and powerful. [2:20]
Nancy Calabrese: So, you basically are taking your prior experiences into your new experience when you reinvent yourself. Is that what you’re saying?
Rachel: Right.
Nancy Calabrese: Cool. So, you’re all about virtual selling and presentation, which is my world, by the way. And you talk about mistakes that sellers make when they’re on video, especially when it comes to their… What do you mean by that?
Rachel: Yeah, I mean, it’s interesting because we’ve video was really activated during the pandemic. And during the pandemic, it was just about showing up, and having your video turned on was a bonus, right? Because few of us had much choice in where we were connecting from because there were so few choices we had at that time. And now that we’re evolving out of the pandemic, and video continues to be a primary channel of connection with our prospects and clients, there’s a big gap I find in the education and awareness around some of the messages we may be sending when we show up on video. Specifically, if you think about these squares of real estate we have on video, they accentuate some of the most expressive parts of ourselves, our faces, our upper bodies, our shoulders, the way we move our heads, our hand gestures if we’re framed properly and you can see those. All those components of visual communication can send a very powerful message of preparedness and respect and perceive trustworthiness and authority, or they can really undermine those things, right? And we both know that in the selling or sales relationship, you know, it’s more than making… the sale, it’s about building the relationship and the rapport. And a lot of that can be made or not over video. [4:25]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, you know, I’m often surprised at the backgrounds some people use or, you know, or in when they do video. How does that impact, you know, a potential customer?
Rachel: Definitely. The background speaks volumes about choices you’ve made or not made when you’ve decided to show up on video with this other person, right? And I think it’s very easy to become… to almost forget… what, or to get used to the background you have, right? And the background you have becomes very normal and you don’t pick up on little details that someone who’s seeing the background for the first time will be like, oh, like what is that thing there in the corner? And oh, that ceiling fan is just going round and round. And every time I think it’s going to biff them in the head, or these little distractions of an unintentional background can require mental energy from your audience, that would be better on your message. [5:36]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, distractions are exactly, you’re right. Well, you know, in my space, you’re not seeing this, but I have a huge picture of Paul McCartney. He’s, my idol. And it is, he is an icebreaker though, I must say, for a lot of people. And I’m shocked some people don’t even know who it is. So, well, go figure. Okay, you talk about nonverbal cues and behaviors that need to be mastered to be an effective communicator. What are some of the top ones? [6:12]
Rachel: Definitely. Some of the top ones are posture, where you’re looking, how you use your eyes when you’re speaking, and as a listener. The way you use your hands and facial expressions. Those would be some of the top four non-verbal categories to be aware of. And on video, of course, all of them are very present. The one thing I’ll say as a caveat on video is the way you frame yourself is critical because if you are going to have your lens positioned such that we can only see the very top of your head, or we can’t see your face because you’re looking at a different screen and your lens is somewhere else like those are things that are just from the get-go, very detrimental to your presence because you’ve ruined the human connection that we can take advantage of on video. [7:09]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, talk more about hand gestures though. What do you mean by that? Because I talk with my hands.
Rachel: Yeah, definitely. Hand gestures are a fascinating category of non-verbal because it’s quite rich. And yes, using hand gestures is a wonderful tool to create a sense of openness, warmth, of invitation. It helps people trust you more because they know that you are present with them, that you’re not fiddling around with some unseen phone or tablet or… animal or whatever, right? People like to see open-palm hand gestures. It’s very soothing. It’s very reassuring. So that’s number one. On the other end of the spectrum though, some people over-rely on hand gestures to communicate. And when the hand gestures are kind of waving around nonsensically and there’s not an intentional connection between the way hand gestures are being used and the words that are being communicated, hand gestures, in that case, can be distracting. [8:12]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah.
Rachel: So yeah, I mean, it’s all about, and then there’s like different types of when you’re touching your face with your hands, that can signal stress and anxiety and discomfort. And so, the way, what it really comes down to is developing a hand gesture vocabulary that supports the message you’re trying to send.
Nancy Calabrese: Right, yeah. Now, when we first got into COVID, I met with this woman who used to do broadcasting. One of the tricks that, tips she gave me was to buy a seat cushion to raise myself up. So, I’m looking square in the camera. Is that something that you recommend as well?
Rachel: Yes, whether it’s a seat cushion or propping, sometimes people need to prop their lens up a little bit higher so that they’re not looking down on the camera. The lens is like the other person or it’s like your audience’s eyes, right? It’s their vantage point. If you investigate the lens, you’re looking directly into their faces. And so, the way you orient around the lens is important. And that the level of the lens, making it easy for you to investigate the lens when you’re speaking increases your authority. Little hacks like that really go a long way. [9:32]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, and you know, it’s interesting what she taught me was I wasn’t looking at the camera. I was looking at her on Zoom. And so, I was looking down. So, I’m glad that she pointed that out to me. Okay, AI is big news nowadays. So how does that come into the equation with what you do?
Rachel: AI is central to what we do at Virtual Sapiens. So, all those nonverbal cues that I just mentioned, we’ve trained our AI to recognize. And so, when you’re interacting with any of our solutions, our AI will analyze your video feed and then provide you with personalized feedback on how you were showing up throughout that video recording or video meeting and provide you with suggestions on how you might level up your presence essentially. [10:23]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, I’m just curious. So, I know your background is ballerina and gymnast. How did you wind up in this role and this, you know, being the owner of this company?
Rachel: Yes, through a series of reinventions, full circle back to the beginning of the conversation. But it does sound like a drastic leap, but when you follow the thread, it makes sense. I retired from Boston Ballet after dancing with the company for 10 years in 2016 and started working at Harvard in their fundraising department, which is heavy on relationships. And I noticed that there was a general lack of awareness when it came to the way people were showing up physically, their body language, their presence. And so, because of this like dancer spider-sense, right, as a dancer, you’re performing, and you only use your body to communicate. There are no words. And so I had this like nonverbal communication sensibility already and so I started studying the field and the different applications of it in restaurants, with sales teams, leaders, et cetera, started consulting in that space in my own right, but then also as a facilitator with other companies. And then when the pandemic happened, I was just like, if we’re going to be on video, we can use technology to our advantage here. [11:43]
Nancy Calabrese: Wow, wow. And so, going back to AI, what do we need to be wary of when we use AI?
Rachel: In this application, right, so AI as a coach, and when the AI is analyzing your behaviors, whether they’re verbal, nonverbal, or vocal, the thing to really pay attention to is, where is the science behind the insights that are being shared? Have these metrics and insights, are they backed up by the most recent science and peer-reviewed research? Um, that’s one thing I would say is important to just confirm because it’s easy like information’s everywhere these days. And so, what you might see, for example, is, oh, this, um, AI coach over here will tell me how many times I’ve smiled. And it’s like, so what? Like, you know, like how is there, is there a study somewhere that says if you smile 15 times in a one-hour meeting that somehow has. You know, it’s like, it can’t be reduced to such a specific arbitrary number. Right? So, at Virtual Sapiens, we look at facial expression variation or expressivity, because we know when people engage with their facial muscles, in whatever way, it could be a surprise, shock, anger, frustration, happiness, or sadness. It depends on the context, which emotions make sense. So, we’re not going to tell you how to… how to feel or what to express, but we will tell you if you’re coming across as completely monotonous with your expressions. [13:20]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, funny, something I learned as well. When I listen to people over, say, a Zoom environment, my mouth droops. And so, I have to make a concerted effort to kind of keep my mouth from drooping. I was not aware of that.
Rachel: Right, right. I mean, that’s a perfect example of our habits on screens are a little, when it comes to the way we engage with a screen, we tend to be more passive, right? When we’re watching a movie, we just sit there and watch it. But now we’re having these human interactions that are alive with other human beings. And so, we must almost develop a new sense of muscle memory around the way we express ourselves on a screen. [14:09]
Nancy Calabrese: This is fascinating stuff. Tell me something that’s true that almost nobody agrees with you on.
Rachel: I mean, let’s see, I think that video, when used well, both in the sense of when the human who’s on video is skilled and aware and can communicate effectively and when the video is the proper channel to use is one of the most powerful ways that as humans we can connect.
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. And, you know, in wrapping up the show, what is the one takeaway you want to leave the audience with?
Rachel: I would say for all the audience members, the next time you are on a video call, which I would assume is soon, pay attention to not only some of the ways you are showing up, right? But how other people are showing up and whether you’re able to sense that they’ve had some kind of training or practice or put some real effort into the way they’re showing up as communicators. Or if they’re kind of… just turning the camera on to show that there’s a human on the other side. [15:26]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, one final thought before we wrap this up. Matching and mirroring is so important. What do you have to say about that?
Rachel: Yes, fascinating. So, one of our advisors who is a behavioral scientist, did her whole thesis on mirroring and mimicry. She started her thesis before the pandemic and then had to finish it during the pandemic and found that over the video, that same concept of a conversation when there’s synchrony in the conversation, people will mirror one another’s behaviors. That kind of behavioral concept is very present on video, which is fascinating because you would think that maybe the channel’s not strong enough but turns out that it is. [16:16]
Nancy Calabrese: I think it’s crucial in the sales process to use your nonverbal cues, as you’ve mentioned, and really listen in, and by listening in, like very often when I’m deep in listening, I kind of lean forward to make sure I’m getting everything. At the end of the day, I love what you do. I told you; you have such an interesting story. How can my audience find you?
Rachel: I’m most easily found on LinkedIn. So just Rachel Cossar on LinkedIn. Would love to connect with anyone who’s interested in speaking further. And our tools, anyone can try our assessment or Sidekick Coach for free on our website. So that’s virtualsapiens.co, C-O. [17:08]
Nancy Calabrese: Okay, very good. And everyone, I really recommend you go to Rachel’s website and listen to her TEDx speech. It was fabulous. And it kept my attention for the whole time. It was great. So, Rachel, thanks for being here. I enjoyed speaking with you. I hope that we can continue this down the road and everyone has a great sales day.
Rachel: Thank you. [17:39]
by Nancy Calabrese | Jun 29, 2023 | Podcast
About Jennifer Standish: Jennifer Standish is the author of Permission Granted: Live Your Life Full of Joy and Peace, a book in which she shares 91 self-limiting beliefs that, as a result of being raised by a narcissistic mother and an enabling father, she learned growing up and realized as an adult that she needed to change to be happy. She is also the Founder and President of Give Yourself Permission, which helps women create new rules for their lives, so they can overcome limiting attitudes that prevent them from achieving career success and finding happiness. Before becoming a transformational coach, she founded Prospecting Works, a successful business that assists salespeople in overcoming cold-call reluctance. Check out the latest episode of our Conversational Selling podcast to learn more about Jennifer.
In this episode, Nancy and Jennifer discuss the following:
- Cold Calling: why people hate making and receiving cold calls.
- Being a step ahead in the conversation weaponed with a script.
- Jennifer’s authentic warm and fuzzy approach to cold calling.
- How mental discipline helps overcome NO and move forward to Yes.
- Why people drift from the best practices to where they are most comfortable?
- How you say is sometimes more important than What you say.
- Start your conversation with honesty and it’ll reward you with an appointment.
- Tips on contacting C-suite executives and remaining confident.
Key Takeaways:
- If you’re calling the right people and have a great delivery and a reasonable script they’re going to take your call and you’re going to get an appointment.
- You must believe in what you’re calling about to your core, and you must believe that you’re helping people.
- NO is not a forever NO. Moreover, it is never personal.
- Cold calling can actually be fun, and you can enjoy it!
“Let’s look at it like it’s a Hollywood script. Actors are memorizing scripts and they memorize them to the degree that when they speak to them, it sounds authentic. That’s what you need to do. You maintain control of the conversation because over time it becomes very predictable what people are going to say. Stick to the same script. Don’t reinvent it every single call. Say the same thing over and over again. And you’ll be able to predict what people say in response, and then you’ll be able to then craft your responses accordingly. So, it really makes your life so much easier if you know what you’re going to say ahead of time.” – JENNIFER
“Your delivery I think is 80% of it. If you’re confident and you believe in what you’re saying, even with a mediocre script, you’re still going to schedule appointments. You have somebody with a very weak delivery and an amazing script, that person’s not going to have any success because, in cold calling, our voice communicates so much more than the words that we’re saying. And so, when you don’t have a face and you don’t have facial inspections and body language, all those little nuances in somebody’s voice become incredibly important. And so, people follow confidence.” – JENNIFER
“So be confident in what you’re communicating and realize that you’re really only selling the meeting. You’re not selling a $3 million insurance policy, right? You’re just selling the meeting. You’re just asking for an introduction. And if you approach this with confidence, I mean, young, eager people, whether you’re a financial advisor or you’re a commercial insurance or whatever, where age might be seen as an advantage. You know, people still follow confidence and people will work with a young producer who’s eager in building a book because they know they’re going to get outstanding client service. So, I say, call, ask for the appointment. It’s an introductory call. You’re not asking them to like hand you a ton of money. You’re just asking for time.” – JENNIFER
Connect with Jennifer Standish:
Try Our Proven, 3-Step System, Guaranteeing Accountability and Transparency that Drives RESULTS by clicking on this link: https://oneofakindsales.com/call-center-in-a-box/
Connect with Nancy Calabrese:
Voiceover: You’re listening to The Conversational Selling Podcast with Nancy Calabrese.
Nancy Calabrese: Hi everyone, it’s Nancy Calabrese and it’s time again for Conversational Selling, the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what’s going on in sales and marketing today and it always starts with the human conversation. Today we’re speaking with Jennifer Standish, a transformation coach with a strong background in cold calling and helping salespeople overcome call reluctance. In fact, she was the president of Prospecting Works, a cold -calling consultancy that designed outbound calling programs for clients. Her warm and fuzzy approach to cold calling is extremely effective and appeals to women, introverts, and those who don’t want to appear salesy. And in addition, Jennifer helps women in corporate America get the… formal and financial recognition they deserve by overcoming self-limiting beliefs, building confidence, reducing fear and anxiety, changing their image in the eyes of management, advocating for themselves, and finally, transforming their relationship and communication skills. Now this is a topic so close to my heart, everyone. Welcome to the show, Jennifer. Let’s get started. [1:33]
Jennifer Standish: Yes, absolutely, this is going to be great.
Nancy Calabrese: So, you know, obviously the question to start with is, why do so many people hate cold calling? What’s your opinion on that?
Jennifer Standish: Well, it depends. Are you asking about the people who are receiving the cold calls or are you asking about the people who are making them?
Nancy Calabrese: Great question! I would say both.
Jennifer Standish: Because yes. So, the people that don’t like making cold calls, what I have found in working in the cold calling arena for 20-30 years is that call reluctance stems from self-limiting beliefs regarding what we were taught as children, that we are not to interrupt, we are not to be a pest, we need to be “don’t speak until spoken to”. So, it’s a lot of really childhood foundational rules that get in the way. And many times, my clients, when I give them permission to call a business during business hours to discuss business, very often that’s all they need. Because it’s like, this is how business gets done, you know, is by calling and having conversations. So, you’re allowed to do this. Now the people who are receiving the cold calls, the reason why they don’t like the cold calls is because the cold callers most often are not doing their homework. And they’re just calling too many people, they’re not focused. I always tell people, if you’re calling the right people and have a great delivery and, you know, a reasonable script they’re going to take their call and you’re going to get an appointment. But most people aren’t calling with integrity and they’re calling way too many people and what they’re saying is something generic and so they are annoying. [3:20]
Nancy Calabrese: Well, you know, it’s funny. We very much believe in scripting and or talk tracks. Some people don’t like the word scripts, but by having a script, what you’re doing is you’re honing your skills each and every time you make the call so that you don’t sound scripted, and you sound different and professional. What are your thoughts on that?
Jennifer Standish: I agree. I say, let’s look at it like, you know, it’s a Hollywood script. I mean, actors are memorizing scripts and they memorize them to the degree that when they speak to them, it sounds authentic. That’s what you need to do. And what it helps is, but you maintain the control of the conversation because you know that over time, you know, it’s very predictable what people are going to say. Stick to the same script. Don’t reinvent it every single call. Say the same thing over and over again. And you’ll be able to predict what people say in response, and then you’ll be able to then craft your responses accordingly. So, it really makes your life so much easier if you know what you’re going to say ahead of time. [4:33]
Nancy Calabrese: You know, it’s so funny you say that every time I onboard a new employee, I use that example of an actor or an actress who is your favorite one. And now you’re becoming that person. You’re just handed a script that you’re going to have to study to give the performance. And, and I think it’s a good way for them to understand, you know, the value and the benefit of the script. Okay, so another thing I wanted to talk to you about is you said you have a warm and fuzzy approach to cold calling. What is that?
Jennifer Standish: So, my approach is based on authenticity. You must believe in what you’re calling about to your core, and you must believe that you’re helping people. Then you must have integrity. You’ve got to really do your homework and make sure that you’re calling only your very, very, very best prospects. You’re not calling everyone under the sun. You’re approaching it from a willingness to help. You’re not approaching it to sell anything. And I only set or what I teach is introductory appointments because it lowers the barriers. If you’re calling and you are implying that you’re going to ask them to make a business decision, well then, the walls go up and say, well, the person is like, I’m not prepared to make a business decision. But it’s so much easier if you just say, I just want a simple introduce myself. So that way, sometime down the line, you may need me or… you may be in a bind, and you need a backup resource. So, you know, that to me is, considering what else is out there, all the other approaches to me, it is very warm and fuzzy. [6:23]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. You know, again, I think that when I think of warm and fuzzy, one thing that we do each and every week is we train and we recognize that this is a NO business, and we never take it personally, right? You just got to keep going and keep going. And ultimately, you’re going to get to that YES.
Jennifer Standish: Yes, absolutely. And even the NOes eventually do come around. There was somebody on LinkedIn who works for a cold calling software company, and they said that they did a study about all the times that it was either a neutral response or a negative response. And when you followed up with those people, there was just like this huge uptick in engagement. And it was like, because when you hear No, it’s really “no, not now”. It’s not NO forever. And so, it is never personal. And this is the thing that happens with cold callers who don’t have control over their own thoughts is when we’re calling people and we’re getting lots of voicemails and we’re not hearing back, it’s so easy to fill in the blanks. You know, oh, they’re not interested. They don’t want to hear from me. But you have to have a lot of mental discipline and not fill in the blanks because you really don’t know why they’re not calling you back. And they may be interested at some point, but now is not the time. So, you just move on. [7:57]
Nancy Calabrese: Huh. You mentioned earlier also, you believe that cold calling training doesn’t stick. Why does that happen? Or some of it doesn’t stick.
Jennifer Standish: Some of it doesn’t, well, I think that there’s drift and people, they will always drift to where they are most comfortable, which is why ongoing training, you can never stop and you always must bring people back to best practices, back to their script. There was somebody that I was working with recently who, I don’t know why he did this, but it was, he, he said, and I work for, and then he named the company. And I don’t know why he needed that little phrase, but it was near impossible to get him to stop saying it. And he would do well for, you know, a couple days and then he would drift back. And so, I think that it’s just human nature that we go to where we’re most comfortable and people will drift away from best practices or the scripts that they’ve been given. [9:08]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah, you know, every time I think about picking up the phone, I think about an opportunity to build a relationship, right? Communication is so critical in sales and using in our world, using our voice and having the right mindset, you know, gives us an advantage, right? We become those actors. Why? would say our voices and our mindset be even more important than the script.
Jennifer Standish: Well, delivery, your delivery I think is 80% of it. If you’re confident and you believe in what you’re saying, even with a mediocre script, you’re still going to set schedule appointments. You have somebody with a very weak delivery and an amazing script, that person’s not going to have any success because in cold calling, our voice communicates so much more than the words that we’re saying. Right? And so, people, when you don’t have a face and you don’t have facial inspections and body language, all those little nuances in somebody’s voice become incredibly important. And so, people follow confidence. If you… I one time was years and years and years ago, I was calling and setting appointments for bank executives. Somebody picked up the phone. I wasn’t expecting them to pick up the phone. And I don’t know why I said, but I was like, we’re a great bank. And it was ridiculous. It was like, I’m like, oh my God, I can’t believe. But he scheduled the appointment and he’s like, I want to meet with a great bank. And he told the banker, I don’t know who you had calling for you, but she was amazing. Now I look at that as like, oh no, that was a mistake. I shouldn’t have said it, but it was said with such honesty. And confident, right? And so delivery is always going to be the biggest thing. You have to have the right place. [11:14]
Nancy Calabrese: You know, several of my people will say right up front, you know, this is a cold call, and if you’d like to hang up on me, I understand. And they almost invariably say, no, no, no, no, go on. They appreciate the humor and the honesty.
Jennifer Standish: Yes. Oh, absolutely. There’s also a technique where people will say, hey, can I just grab a couple seconds to tell you why I’m calling and then you can decide how we proceed. It’s almost like it’s asking for permission. And for a lot of people that have call reluctance, that’s a nice way to go because once you receive permission to talk, then the anxiety lessens and then you’re like, okay, well now I’ve got 20, 30 seconds to say what I want to say and they’re listening.
Nancy Calabrese: We chatted before our podcast about executives and how C-suite executives will take cold calls, right?
Jennifer Standish: Yes. [12:08]
Nancy Calabrese: And a lot of people, I guess, have the call reluctance to speak to them. What advice do you give to those that may be intimidated by contacting a C-suite executive?
Jennifer Standish: So, if they’re intimidated, and this also, this often happens in commercial insurance, where you’ve got a young commercial insurance producer and they’re calling Presidents or CEOs of big companies, and they’re inevitably, the people who they’re calling are their father’s age or their grandfather’s age. And so, they feel like they don’t have the authority. And so, I tell people, I was like, listen, you do this day in and day out. You know more about your business than these Presidents and CEOs do because they don’t do it all day long. They run their business. [12:54]
Nancy Calabrese: Right.
Jennifer Standish: So be confident in what you’re communicating. Realize that you’re really only selling the meeting. You’re not selling a $3 million insurance policy, right? You’re just selling the meeting. You’re just asking for an introduction. And if you approach this with confidence, I mean, young, eager people, whether you’re a financial advisor or you’re a commercial insurance or whatever, where age might be seen as an advantage. You know, people still follow confidence and people will work with a young producer who’s eager in building a book because they know they’re going to get outstanding client service. So, I say, call, ask for the appointment. It’s an introductory call. You’re not asking them to like hand you a ton of money. You’re just asking for time.
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. Another thing that we pay attention to, and perhaps some salespeople aren’t aware of this, but the purpose of a cold call is to schedule the appointment, not to go into cell mode. What do you have to say about that? [14:00]
Jennifer Standish: I agree 100%. And that it’s really, you’re trying to get an appointment, you’re not trying to sell. You’re not trying to close any deals. That’s not what this is about. And I think the people who do approach it that way, where they’ll say, you don’t want to explore the opportunity of working together, want to see if you have any needs that we can help. It’s like, oh, you are just, you’re burdening your call with so much. Like, no, back yourself up. And just make it an introduction before the end of the appointment. Then when you have the appointment, then you build rapport, and then you are given the permission to sell. But in a cold call, you don’t have permission to sell.
Nancy Calabrese: Right. Why, I think simply, Jennifer, if you go into cell mode in a first-time conversation, you really don’t have an opportunity to do the research and properly prepare for a lengthier discussion. Would you agree with that?
Jennifer Standish: I would, oh, absolutely, absolutely. A lot of times my students will ask, well, what if they’re available right then and there? And I was like, okay, well, unless you’re calling truckers or people who are on the road in, you know, can’t hold, I always, always say, you know, now is not a really good time for me. I don’t have enough time to do this. Let’s schedule at a later date so that you do have the appropriate. Do the research. You really, and I also, when I’m in a cold calling mode, I just want to make calls. I don’t want to then switch modes and have an in-depth conversation with somebody. I’m not prepared. So, you’re doing yourself a disservice as well as the prospect of disservice. [15:43]
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah. What would be your recommendation to everyone listening? How many calls should they make or how much time should they spend in cold call prospecting every day?
Jennifer Standish: It really depends on where you are in your business. If you’re a new business, 80% of your time should be spent setting a point. But if you are in a mature business where you’ve got a lot of repeat clients, a repeat business, you probably don’t have to be prospecting as much. But I think it depends really on the industry and where you are.
Nancy Calabrese: So tell me something that you know is true that almost nobody agrees with you on.
Jennifer Standish: That cold calling can actually be fun, and you can enjoy it. And you can enjoy it. And I’ve had great conversations with people, and I’ve become good friends with people who have cold called me and, or I have cold called. And so, I tell everyone, take every single cold call that comes your way. I wrote an article year ago about like the seven reasons why an executive should take a cold call. A lot of it has to do with, nobody else is qualified to vet that call other than you. A lot of it has to do with karma. If your people are cold calling, well then you want your prospects to take calls, then you should take all the calls that come to you.
Nancy Calabrese: Yeah.
Jennifer Standish: I also think you never really know who’s on the other end and it could be somebody that could transform your business. [17:23]
Nancy Calabrese: It’s all relationship building, you know? And I’m looking and we’re almost up with time, but I had a call today with a gentleman who was contacted by one of my people. And I had spoken with him a couple of years ago and long story short, we’re speaking again next week. And he was very complimentary of my caller. Now there’s nothing like hearing that, in this business, right?
Jennifer Standish: Yes, and I will tell you.
Nancy Calabrese: There’s so much churn and burn and you need to just approach it, I think, with the smile on your face, the level of confidence that you speak of, and the rest will come into play.
Jennifer Standish: I time and time again, I tell people, people thank me for calling them. People thank me for reaching out. Thank you for thinking of me. I really appreciate it. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard that from a prospect. [18:23]
Nancy Calabrese: It’s rewarding.
Jennifer Standish: It is. It is. It’s an amazing reward.
Nancy Calabrese: So, listen, how can my people find you?
Jennifer Standish: LinkedIn is the best place to get me. Um, I have all my contact information. I even give you my phone number and I encourage people to call because I take all the calls. But LinkedIn, Jennifer Standish, I’m right there. You’ll, you know, reach out, schedule a meeting. Um, I work with companies. I design outbound calling programs. I work with individuals. Uh, I am a leadership.
Nancy Calabrese: All right.
Jennifer Standish: Career coach.
Nancy Calabrese: Well, you know, every first of all, Jennifer, I really enjoyed having the opportunity to speak with you. You’re some friendly competition. And I suggest strongly if you like what Jennifer had to say, reach out to her. She’s a fascinating lady. We didn’t even get into some of her interesting stories. And I hope that you’ll come back on the show sometime soon.
Jennifer Standish: I’d be delighted. I’d be delighted.
Nancy Calabrese: Okay, everyone make it a great sales day and when you’re done listening to this, pick up the phone. See you next time. [19:34]
by Marta Malyk | Mar 20, 2023 | Podcast
About Kevin Hopp: Kevin Hopp is a Founder of Hopp Consulting Group. Kevin is an expert in outbound sales development for B2B SaaS companies. He has worked with over 50 organizations, crafting outbound campaigns that have generated tens of millions of dollars in revenue for some of Silicon Valley’s fastest-growing companies. Kevin shares his top tips to win at cold calling, including having a script and following up. Check out the latest episode of our Conversational Selling podcast to learn more about Kevin.
In this episode, Nancy and Kevin discuss:
- Why does Cold Calling get such a bad rep?
- Why does training and having a well-structured system matter in sales?
- VM World – How long does Kevin pursue a prospect until moving to another one? How many attempts does he make?
- How to set a qualified appointment without cell mode?
- Kevin’s thoughts on the consultative discussion in setting appointments.
- Fun fact about Kevin – 3 thumbs!
Key Takeaways:
- Nobody likes to be sold. Everybody likes to buy things.
- If you think cold calling is dead, you’re just not doing it the right way.
- I believe passionately that if you get good at the systems and processes that make sales development people more efficient, you will enjoy your job more.
“Many salespeople, as you and I both know, are kind of unprepared to have a conversation with a live prospect at any given moment, and because they’re unprepared. They’re scared of it. They’re really scared of cold calling. They’re scared of what might happen. They’re scared of getting told I’m not interested and getting hung up on. And they don’t have a structure or a process. I’ve gotten so obsessed and so passionate about Cold Calling because I was an entry-level sales. Though that had to just cold call all day, and I had the pit of my stomach feeling every time before I pick up the phone. So I’ve dedicated, the beginning of my career here for the first 9-10 years just becoming as good as I could possibly be at having sales conversations.” – KEVIN HOPP
Connect with Kevin Hopp:
Try Our Proven, 3-Step System, Guaranteeing Accountability and Transparency that Drives RESULTS by clicking on this link: https://oneofakindsales.com/call-center-in-a-box/
Connect with Nancy Calabrese:
by Marta Malyk | Feb 15, 2022 | Cold Calling, Cold Calling Success
I will let you in on a little secret. Do you know what everybody needs to know about cold calling? It’s that CONFIDENCE is a key component of successful Cold Calling!
What everybody needs to know about cold calling
I have mentioned before that you can’t bluster your way through a sales call. Prospects can smell the BS a mile away (through a phone, email or text) and that will prematurely end your chances of ever making a real sale. But they can also detect CONFIDENCE and that leads to TRUST, appointments and sales.
According to Close.com, “93% of the potential success of your cold call is attributed to the tone of your voice during the conversation.” (1) This makes sense – on a cold call, all a prospect has to go by is your voice and delivery.
In an Inc article on ‘How Customers Decide to Buy’ they stated, “In a cold call, the customer makes the first decision based upon the tone and confidence in the caller’s voice.” (2) I would venture to say that subsequent decisions won’t be needed if that first decision isn’t positive!
CLICK TO TWEET
But wait, I don’t FEEL confident
Many salespeople do NOT feel confident when Cold Calling. Especially if they have had some negative experiences or worse yet, they have never been trained.
Can I just ‘Fake it Till I Make it’?
No, this is not a good plan.
OK, so how do I become more confident?
There are many facets to confidence but we find that being properly prepared instills a level of confidence in our people that you can hear in their tone and delivery.
Get the proper training
Too many salespeople are handed a phone and a list of numbers and let loose to make calls. Most of them fail miserably and then blame the tactic (Cold Calling) when in fact it was their lack of training which caused the poor results.
Click here to read more about our proprietary sales prospecting training programs that prepare YOU to succeed in sales!
Get a tune-up
If you have been a salesperson for any length of time, you know that some skills are timeless (how to engage someone in conversation) and others expire (how to send a fax). Ongoing sales training is a vital part of keeping you on the top of your game. Our sales prospecting program Call Center in a Box, provides training as well as mentoring and modeling to not only show you how to do it correctly but to help you internalize the skills, so you exude confidence on YOUR calls. Our Close the Deal program gives you the tools you need to engage confidently with prospects and, as the title says, Close the Deal!
Check out this post for more on the importance of ongoing sales training.
Practice, practice, practice
As is true in almost any area of life, practice will drive improvement.
Get feedback
Find someone who will monitor your calls and give you honest feedback. In our programs we review calls, discuss what worked and didn’t work and then provide them with skill training they need. We also do role playing exercises, allowing them to practice and polish their skills, before they need to engage with actual prospects.
Mindset plays a big role
In addition to being properly prepared, you need to stay optimistic. This can be a challenge in our industry but it really does improve outcomes.
Click here to read more about how optimism increases sales.
Be prepared
And yes, it takes more than just speaking skills to carry you through a call. Click here for more on how to prepare yourself for Cold Calling success.
Pick up that phone
So, make a plan and execute it daily. Prepare yourself and practice. Then pick up that phone and start dialing.
If you need help with the plan, the skills or the practice, give us a call at 908.879.2911 – we can help YOU build the confidence YOU need to succeed in the new year!
Good luck and best wishes for a prosperous new year!
